Fantino in/out of VAC: changes in DM/other staff (merged)

[ARMY_101]

"I spent 40 years in law enforcement. I too have served. I guess I can also put myself in the same category."

There, with the political and rhetorical fluff removed.

What category is he talking about?

He's talking about veterans.

And placing himself in that category.

Simple enough for you now?

No. He's putting himself in the same category as those "who put themselves in harms way every day." To which he legitimately belongs.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

No. He's putting himself in the same category as those "who put themselves in harms way every day." To which he legitimately belongs.

Bullshit........self serving kife.

 

[The Bread Guy]

One vet's opinion:  don't come to 11 Nov ceremonies, PM, and dump that VAC Minister:

According to Veteran Affairs Canada, Nov 11 is a date that serves as: “remembrance for the men and women who have served, and continue to serve our country during times of war, conflict and peace.”  As a Veteran of peacekeeping, peacemaking, and war I am disinviting you Mr. Prime Minister, and your caucus, from Remembrance Day ceremonies across Canada.  Your continued hostility towards Canada’s Veterans makes you an unwelcome guest.

Mr. Harper you have led a cruel and deliberate campaign of harm against disabled veterans.  Afghan War Veterans that fall under the New Veterans Charter are suing the government in an attempt to regain fair compensation and care.  But your office prefers to waste tax dollars conducting legal delay tactics instead of respecting court decisions. These same tactics were used for seven years against Dennis Manuge while he combatted the unjust SISIP clawback.  In the mean time, disabled Veterans are going bankrupt or will die in poverty.  Continued delays damage both the Veteran and their young families

I encourage you to allow Veterans to exercise the rights we have defended for other Canadians.

Minister Julian Fantino, a combative ex-police officer who sees himself above Veterans, leads your information effort.  The minister is working hard to address the “tangle of misinformation regarding how Canada treats” its Veterans.  By the way, that very minister utters much of the tangled misinformation and continues to mislead Canadians.

Please replace Minister Fantino.

Your government argues that parliament, not the courts, is the appropriate place to address the situation.  Yet, you have had a majority government for years and have done nothing but add a veneer of change.  Furthermore, you feel that this government should not be bound by promises of previous governments because:  ”their argument could have a far broader impact than perhaps intended by the plaintiffs”.  Canada was built on promises; therefore, your argument makes Canada a lie.  Tell me Mr. Prime Minster, if the government is not bound by previous promises then why should any soldier fight to defend a lie? ....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No. He's putting himself in the same category as those "who put themselves in harms way every day." To which he legitimately belongs.

Carry on. You're allowed to believe what you want.

Me? The sky is blue in my world.

I won't justify my stance, to you, any further.

 

[mikeninercharlie]

How many IEDs did he face driving through Toronto? Suicide Bombers? TB shooters with RPGs? He ain't a vet no matter how many times he says that "he's been in the trenches and heard the sound of gunfire". Two words Fantino, UNLIMITED LIABILITY, if you weren't subject to it, then you ain't one of us!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One vet's opinion:  don't come to 11 Nov ceremonies, PM, and dump that VAC Minister:

Oooo. That's good. I like it.

 

[jollyjacktar]

You might as well add the last bit of his letter, it's worth it.

One Veteran's Opinion

Through veiled words and actions you indicate that the economy is more important than the people who protect it.  You knew you were getting into a hard fight in Afghanistan.  I am sure the insurance-minded VAC and SISIP made it clear that disabled and wounded would be expensive.  Bluntly sir, paying down the deficit on the backs of the disabled is repugnant.

If you cannot afford the Veterans you cannot afford the war.

Mr. Harper this letter is not a political attack.  I am conservative by nature and, until recently, Conservative by ballot. Besides, you have bigger troubles than being disinvited to Remembrance Day; you have lost my confidence and vote. 

Please demonstrate appropriate behaviour by taking a minute of silence at 11am on Nov 11 - in your office.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I must be missing something.

"I spent 40 years in law enforcement. I too have served. I've been at the trenches and heard the guns go off. I guess I can also put myself and other colleagues, firefighters, and police officers who put themselves in harms way every day in the same category."

Nowhere does Fantino say "I'm a veteran like you guys too!" or "my police service is the same as your military service."  All he's saying is that he's provided selfless service, he's been shot at, and he's been in harms way. Which is true.

It's called "messaging" - saying something without "saying" it.  I haven't listened to the entire interview, but if he's being interviewed as Veterans Affairs minister, I'd read it it that way too - he wants to sound like he's a vet, too.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Oooo. That's good. I like it.

Says what he means pretty clearly, don't he?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's called "messaging" - saying something without "saying" it.  I haven't listened to the entire interview, but if he's being interviewed as Veterans Affairs minister, I'd read it it that way too - he wants to sound like he's a vet, too.

I did listen to the whole interview and that is exactly the message he was trying to convey.

 

[maniac]

Agreed, when you are the VAC minister, he should not be talking about policing.  Even if he used the talk to say he's empathetic to VETERANS  based on his past, does not translate very well.  It should be clear and obvious there's no federal dept for police.

 

[ARMY_101]

Agreed, when you are the VAC minister, he should not be talking about policing.

So he can't talk about his 40+ year career as a police officer? His time as a police officer, a city's chief of police, or the Commissioner of the OPP?  All that career history and experience goes out the window because he's the Veterans Affairs minister?  ???

It should be clear and obvious there's no federal dept for police.

??? http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/index-eng.htm

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Agreed, when you are the VAC minister, he should not be talking about policing.  Even if he used the talk to say he's empathetic to VETERANS  based on his past, does not translate very well.  It should be clear and obvious there's no federal dept for police.

http://www.rcmp.gc.ca/index-eng.htm

You were saying?  ??? ???

Btw, RCMP and other police forces DO serve overseas and face the same dangers our boys do.

 

[Grunt_031]

Again what is a Veteran?

Mandate for VAC

VAC's mandate stems from laws and regulations. Among the more significant is the Department of Veterans Affairs Act, which charges the Minister of Veterans Affairs with the following responsibilities:

    "...the care, treatment, or re-establishment in civil life of any person who served in the Canadian Forces or merchant navy or in the naval, army or air forces or merchant navies of Her Majesty, of any person who has otherwise engaged in pursuits relating to war, and of any other person designated ... and the care of the dependants or survivors of any person referred to ..."

Technically 6 months in the CF will get you a Veteran Plate in most province.

How many IEDs did he face driving through Toronto? Suicide Bombers? TB shooters with RPGs?

IED, Suicide Bombers, RPG's.  I guess that exempts most WW1/WW2/Korea from veteran status.

 

[maniac]

Army 101 - when he's being interviewed as the Minister of VAC, what do you want him to say?,  talk about veterans or his policing past and start paralleling benefits because that's what's next.  Do you think this is leading to getting police included in the benefits of VAC or it's the campaign beginning to sway public opinion against the class action lawsuit?  I think I know what my answer is.

It's no secret there's a class action lawsuit against VAC and that appointments in cabinet are strategic. Be careful what you support as the last time they did this,  they pushed through the NVC with support from all parties.

I get he had a great career as a police officer but it's not his job to be speaking about police officers now.

 

[maniac]

I think the most important thing we should remember is that this is a cabinet minister.  They have prepared statements and there is a reason for everything they say.  Nobody is disputing his career as a police officer and the daily risk, rather why choose this forum to speak to it?

 

[ARMY_101]

Army 101 - when he's being interviewed as the Minister of VAC, what do you want him to say?,  talk about veterans or his policing past and start paralleling benefits because that's what's next.  Do you think this is leading to getting police included in the benefits of VAC or it's the campaign beginning to sway public opinion against the class action lawsuit?  I think I know what my answer is.

Drop the conspiracy theories. He's a politician who had a life before politics - that life and experience is relevant to his work today. He didn't suddenly come into existence one day - he has a past and that past is important.  He was saying his past as a police officer is similar to those he works for today in that he too has been shot at and served in a line of duty. It's not some grand conspiracy, it's the minister talking about his past experience.

 

[maniac]

Thanks for the advise but respectfully, I am entitled to my opinion.  Given the Ministers background, he would have been better suited for Public Safety.  Like I said,  those appointments are strategic and whatever comes out of their mouths is scripted.

 

[George Wallace]

This is a good read.  Perhaps the Minister should read it.

From the Huffington Post; Do You Know What Defines a Veteran? It's Not Just Combat, by Jeff Rose-Martland

"A veteran is anyone who took an oath to be ordered to die for Canada -- generally in the Forces or RCMP. Becoming a veteran takes place at the time of the oath."

 

[ARMY_101]

This is a good read.  Perhaps the Minister should read it.

From the Huffington Post; Do You Know What Defines a Veteran? It's Not Just Combat, by Jeff Rose-Martland

I can't find "combat" anywhere in the definition of "veteran." Does that mean sailors and pilots aren't veterans because they aren't in combat?