F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[jmt18325]

By DND, I assume you mean PWGSC, as directed by the sitting government?

It doesn't seem to matter the government, does it?

Look at all of the projects bugles in the last few decades.

 

[Journeyman]

It doesn't seem to matter the government, does it?

Not remotely.  But DND has more than enough problems without being tarred with the brush rightfully aimed at PWGSC.

 

[jmt18325]

Comd RCAF said there was no gap because the life extension was capable of keeping us going until 2025, as long as deliveries started before then.

Super Hornet will be fine for 15 years, then we're back to square one. We need an aircraft we can fly for 30+, because that's how long it takes to squeeze blood out of the military procurement money stone. We're being set up for failure again, for purely partisan political promises.

I've heard we may buy 25-30.  We'll be keeping some hornets with them.  As they'll fly less they'll last longer.  There may be some upgrades done.  This solution is designed to get us past 2025, and not much more it seems. 

 

[jmt18325]

Not remotely.  But DND has more than enough problems without being tarred with the brush rightfully aimed at PWGSC.

I'm not so sure.  The government seems capable of buying some things.  I'm not sure what the problem is when it comes to the CCG and DND.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm not so sure.  The government seems capable of buying some things.  I'm not sure what the problem is when it comes to the CCG and DND.

Oh?  What else are they capable of buying in any sort of expeditious timeframe?  Stop talking out of your ass, that would be a good start.

 

[PuckChaser]

Split fleet is a stupid idea. We have no where close to the budget to support multiple types to do the same job. You're desperately trying to justify the Liberal narrative, but at least you understand the F-35 is the superior aircraft. Problem is, we'll get an "interim" Super Hornet, and then be stuck with it forever, with no money to buy F-35. If you want interim aircraft, buy old F/A 18s that still have flight hours left on the airframe and are being retired by USN and USMC. No split fleet, maybe gets a few more planes in the sky.

 

[jmt18325]

Oh?  What else are they capable of buying in any sort of expeditious timeframe?  Stop talking out of your ***, that would be a good start.

In the time it's taken them to select an aircraft for FWSAR?  Oh wait, they haven't done that yet.  Governments have changed in that time.

 

[jmt18325]

Split fleet is a stupid idea. We have no where close to the budget to support multiple types to do the same job. You're desperately trying to justify the Liberal narrative, but at least you understand the F-35 is the superior aircraft. Problem is, we'll get an "interim" Super Hornet, and then be stuck with it forever, with no money to buy F-35. If you want interim aircraft, buy old F/A 18s that still have flight hours left on the airframe and are being retired by USN and USMC. No split fleet, maybe gets a few more planes in the sky.

Like I said, I'm fine with getting super hornets to replace the whole fleet.  The reality is, for what we do, they'll be fine for as long as the US Navy operates them.  That's looking to be into the 2040s at this point.

 

[jmt18325]

Oh?  What else are they capable of buying in any sort of expeditious timeframe?  Stop talking out of your ***, that would be a good start.

My point is that our government is unable to procure large and complex items using a competiton.  Sole source seems to be a better route for something like this, even if we pay more.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My point is that our government is unable to procure large and complex items using a competiton.  Sole source seems to be a better route for something like this, even if we pay more.

It's also illegal according to govt rules but who needs those right! 

I'm not a Con lover or a Liberal.  I want the best kit that's going to set us up long term for operational success.  The F35 is that aircraft.  If we sole source anything it should be that aircraft, they've already made a 180 of them and production is about to enter full swing.  Nope, we'd rather buy a hangar queen.

 

[suffolkowner]

Split fleet is a stupid idea. We have no where close to the budget to support multiple types to do the same job. You're desperately trying to justify the Liberal narrative, but at least you understand the F-35 is the superior aircraft. Problem is, we'll get an "interim" Super Hornet, and then be stuck with it forever, with no money to buy F-35. If you want interim aircraft, buy old F/A 18s that still have flight hours left on the airframe and are being retired by USN and USMC. No split fleet, maybe gets a few more planes in the sky.

Last i had read there were no F/A 18's left in decent shape but the US Marines are getting 30 from the boneyard so maybe perspectives have changed. Seems like a better option if available then buying Super Hornets when the F-35 is just around the corner

 

[jmt18325]

It's also illegal according to govt rules but who needs those right! 

Sometimes - it was legal in a circumstance like with the C-130j, the C-17, and the CH-47.  It was also legal in the situation of the Asterix, because the Conservative government made it legal (good on them).  It is apparently that change that makes it legal for this deal, if it actually happens.

 

[jmt18325]

Last i had read there were no F/A 18's left in decent shape but the US Marines are getting 30 from the boneyard so maybe perspectives have changed. Seems like a better option if available then buying Super Hornets when the F-35 is just around the corner

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/03/15/Why-F-35-May-Not-Be-Combat-Ready-Until-2022

That date is beyond the life of our current Hornets, without $500M in upgrades - upgrades that have to be completed in 5 years, using a program that too 18 months just to get to the definition phase.  I'm actually convinced that there is a gap, and if there isn't now, there will be in less than 5 years.  Even if we manage to proceed with the upgrade in time, we're going to have to manage a fleet that will have again shrunk (from 77 to 65) while at the same time having aircraft offline for maintenance and for the actual upgrades - and because they're simply getting old.

 

[suffolkowner]

JMT

I can't really see it taking another 6 years to get a functioning F-35A. USAF IOC is this year. Its more a question of how quickly the F-35A can replace the F-18 in RCAF service. If there is gap then maybe we should look at grabbing 30 from stocks like the Marines, if there are another 30 in good enough shape.

 

[jmt18325]

JMT

I can't really see it taking another 6 years to get a functioning F-35A. USAF IOC is this year.

By all accounts, that is a pure fiction, at least 4 years late.

 

[Loachman]

Like I said, I'm fine with getting super hornets to replace the whole fleet.

Says somebody who will never fly one, especially in combat.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How many people have flown the SH in Combat against a Peer like AD system or opposing aircraft?

Does the F-18 have any air to air kills to it's credit? I know the F-15 does. I can't recall a fight between F-18's and anyone else, but could be wrong.

 

[SupersonicMax]

2 MiG-21s were shot down in Western Iraq by 2 F/A-18s in '91.  The F-18's role is mostly air-to-ground with the capability to defend itself.

The Hornet has been shot at by SAM enough ...

 

[jmt18325]

Says somebody who will never fly one, especially in combat.

If we're planning for air to air combat, neither the Super Hornet, nor the Lightning is a good choice.

 

[Loachman]

I did not specify air-to-air combat, but, regardless, I do not see anything currently available that would do better in that area, either.

I also do not see too many fighter guys expressing too much concern over all of the "weaknesses" being bandied about in in the clueless media or certain political circles.