F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[MarkOttawa]

How this fits with planned 138 total not exactly clear (some A models later?):

U.K. Planning Four Front-Line F-35 Squadrons

The U.K. is planning to build a future force of four front-line F-35 squadrons, now that the country has committed to a fleet of 138 aircraft.

The U.K. will build a front-line fleet of 48 aircraft, 12 per squadron. A fifth unit, also with 12 aircraft, will be formed as an operational conversion unit (OCU), Air Cmdr. Harvey Smyth, the commander of the U.K.’s Lightning Force, told reporters on the sidelines of an F-35 training conference here May 19.

An additional three aircraft will serve with 17 Sqn, an operational test and evaluation unit which will be based at Edwards AFB, California. This means the U.K. will have an operational fleet of around 63 aircraft, less than half of the total number of F-35s that the U.K. has agreed to purchase under last year’s Strategic Defense and Security Review. But Smyth pointed out that the total number would cover attrition replacements and the so-called sustainment fleet, which is defined as additional aircraft required to sustain the fleet to its out-of-service date as well as to cover maintenance. Other U.K. combat aircraft also have large sustainment fleets..."
http://aviationweek.com/defense/uk-planning-four-front-line-f-35-squadrons

Over twice as large as the 63?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[CougarKing]

Yet another delay:

Defense News

Final F-35 Testing Slips To 2018
Lara Seligman, Defense News 8:23 a.m. EDT May 25, 2016


WASHINGTON — The military’s top weapons tester has been warning for months that the F-35 will not be ready for its final major test phase until 2018 at the earliest. On Tuesday, the Pentagon officially acknowledged the schedule slip.

“We reviewed the status of operational test planning, and there is consensus that that is likely to occur in calendar year 2018 given the realities of the schedule at this time,” said Frank Kendall, the Pentagon’s top acquisition official, during a Tuesday conference call. “The target was the middle of 2017, but it’s clear we’re not going to make that.”

This slip reflects a six-month delay for initial operational test and evaluation, or IOT&E, the last major period of testing before full-rate production.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[CougarKing]

Shared costs and logistics?

Air Recognition

RNLAF commander pushes for F-35-based Joint air force with Belgium

By Nathan Gain

The Dutch air force commander invited himself in the debate on the successor of Belgian Air Force’s F-16 fleet. General Alexander Schnitger suggested on Flemish TV channel VRT that Belgium purchase the same type of aircraft selected by the Royal Netherlands Air Force (RNLAF) – the F-35 Lightning II – to create a joint Dutch-Belgian air force.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[MilEME09]

Shared costs and logistics?

Air Recognition

For two smaller countries such as them, it would make sense, they could operate a moderately sized fleet and split the cost, the shared supply chain would be a bonus as well.

 

[Karel Doorman]

For two smaller countries such as them, it would make sense, they could operate a moderately sized fleet and split the cost, the shared supply chain would be a bonus as well.

Basically you're correct,moneywise as it is now(i'm Dutch and live in Belgium  [ ),but what happens when the **** hits the proverbial fan?I mean do you both go to a conflict situation,or does half of the airforce has other rules?
I'll give you an example;

Years ago ,Falklands,the English fleet steams towards the Falklands then the Netherlands realize there's a dutch officer on board(these navies areworking together  for years now)and has to helicopter him out,because the Netherlands didn't want to land in the war.you see the difficulties?

The better solution  put a lot more money in defence(these are "just" choices)

BTW;i'm still behind my opinion in this matter(F-35):
This is a very overpriced aircraft which still doesn't deliver what was agreed by all partners at the start of this programme.Problems with "old"software which are being"repaired"with upgrades but the fundamental software problems are still there all to reach deadlines.
Smaller airforces should have bought an extra platform,since the F-35 is no air superiority fighter,so maybe the Grippen as well(Rafale,Typhoon,etc)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

For two smaller countries such as them, it would make sense, they could operate a moderately sized fleet and split the cost, the shared supply chain would be a bonus as well.

With Belgium involved, would that technically be 3 countries with 2 of them not yet divorced?

 

[Karel Doorman]

With Belgium involved, would that technically be 3 countries with 2 of them not yet divorced?

No worries  [ Belgium still 1 country,lol(so 2 involved)

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

No worries  [ Belgium still 1 country,lol(so 2 involved)

But ... did someone explain that to them?  ;D

 

[Journeyman]

(these navies are working together for years now)

:rofl: 

120'ish years of Anglo-Dutch wars ended in 1784 (not counting the Napoleonic Wars -- a more broad squabble), but it still has to be included that you're now playing well. 
I like it.  ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

Oh for pete's sake JM:

We put a bunch of protestant continentals in charge of the Bank of England (Houblon), the army (Schomberg, Ligonier, Mascarene, Cavalier), and even put a Dutchman on the throne (William III).  The Scots have been sending soldiers to fight the Dutchmen's wars since 1575.

The only time that the Dutch and the Brits fell out was when the Stewarts were on the English throne and when Napoleon got his hands on them - but he had that effect on lots of folks.

London has been a branch plant of Amsterdam for more than 400 years.  >

 

[Karel Doorman]

But ... did someone explain that to them?  ;D

To answer,not needed,but still [Xp: there was allways a difference(and still is)between the "dutch"speaking part(Flanders)in the north and the french speaking part(Walloon)in the south and both have different views on certain matters,but also know that they have to do it together.

 

[Karel Doorman]

:rofl: 

120'ish years of Anglo-Dutch wars ended in 1784 (not counting the Napoleonic Wars -- a more broad squabble), but it still has to be included that you're now playing well. 
I like it.  ;D

Yes the 2 "powerhouses"of that time did have a quarrel or 2  >  with each other,let me remind you that the only defeat(and the biggest in numbers) the Royal Navy had was against the Dutch(Chatham)

But all that aside the 2 navies have a healthy respect for each other(experience,knowledge,history,etc)so not so surprising that they work well together.And yes the dutch ruled England for a while(Henry),lol.

Now back to that(overpriced)"bird". [

 

[MarkOttawa]

Indeed it wasn't the Normans in 1066 but the Dutch:
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/09/30/mark-collins-1688-the-last-successful-invasion-of-england/

1688: The Last Successful Invasion of England…
...

...

Mark
Ottawa

 

[YZT580]

How can you call it an invasion when he arrived by invitation?  The vast majority of Brits were totally fed up with James.  If he had only been a little more patient it could even have been Monmouth but he was too impetuous and the victim of not only bad advise but even worse military leaders and that was years before William.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Continuing the  ff topic:  :trainwreck: which has nothing at all  to do with the F-35 ...

It was, arguably, the last English (maybe British) civil war and, yet again, as was the custom throughout the 16th and 17th centuries, it was (mostly) about religion, although in 1688 the relative powers of the crown and parliament were very much top of mind and religion may be been just an excuse for some of the notables. But James II seems to have been a deeply religious man who appears to have actually believed in the "divine right" and so on.

The business of deposing James II was a bit messy but, all-in-all, less bloody than most such acts.

Edited to add:

For those interested in a not too academically stuffy history, I recommend: Our First Revolution: The Remarkable British Upheaval That Inspired America's Founding Fathers (2007) by Michael Barone.

 

[Kirkhill]

And I also suggest:

which suggests the American Revolution and the American Civil War were continuations of the Wars of the Three Kingdoms.

PS - WRT the off topic train-wreck: Blame it on the Dutchman!  [

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

PS - WRT the off topic train-wreck: Blame it on the Dutchman!  [

Oh! Sure!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ882QYzr-M

;D

Just continuing the  :trainwreck:

 

[YZT580]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion: Breaking news, Canada misses payment to remain in the F35 club. 

 

[George Wallace]

Historically, if Trudeau does walk away from the F-35, he is not doing so to be anti-Conservative; as it was under the Liberal government of Jean Chrétien that Canada began its investment in the F-35 program in 1997.    >

 

[YZT580]

Sadly George I think you are correct.  Rejecting the F35 during the election enabled him to establish himself with ideas that were different. It was the same shallow reasoning that also promised to withdraw the F18's.  Although I believe that he could honourably walk away from that position simply by running a legitimate competition his heritage won't allow it.  He was brought up by a man who consistently rejected the armed forces and indeed, if legend is correct, who ran around Montreal on a bike during WW2 wearing a Nazi helmet. An F35 is too offensive. Blue helmets and care packages don't mix with lethal jets. By buying replacement F18s he is choosing the least offensive approach whilst still doing his best to reduce the offensive capabilities of the RCAF.  It isn't anti-conservative, it is in keeping with a man whose major ambition in life before politics was to be a dance instructor. IMHO.