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Electoral Reform (Senate, Commons, & Gov Gen)

What do you want to see?


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>A sure recipe for civil war or the UDI of 'oppressed' majorities.

Civil wars don't start because people are allowed to be themselves in their own lands.  Civil wars start when one part of a nation gets tired of other parts telling its people how they should live - especially with regard to moral and cultural preferences.
 
Brad Sallows said:
>A sure recipe for civil war or the UDI of 'oppressed' majorities.

Civil wars don't start because people are allowed to be themselves in their own lands.  Civil wars start when one part of a nation gets tired of other parts telling its people how they should live - especially with regard to moral and cultural preferences.

Amen Brother Brad.  :)
 
"Civil wars don't start because people are allowed to be themselves in their own lands.  Civil wars start when one part of a nation gets tired of other parts telling its people how they should live - especially with regard to moral and cultural preferences."

- Which is exactly what would happen if we had ONLY a house where the ten provinces were represented equally.  PEI, NB, NS and NF - 1.5 million people, max - ramming through legislation such as a 'New NEP' over BC and AB - 7 million people. 

A house based on regional rep alone would only work if we were a loose federation without the ability to legislate how the rest should live.  But then, we would not be a country if we did that.
 
>- Which is exactly what would happen if we had ONLY a house where the ten provinces were represented equally.  PEI, NB, NS and NF - 1.5 million people, max - ramming through legislation such as a 'New NEP' over BC and AB - 7 million people.

Seeing as AB (or AB+BC) would be outnumbered in both a rep-by-pop and rep-by-province body, and 4 of 10 provinces wouldn't be a majority - at least 2 of the others would have to join in the cawq-fest - your objection isn't particularly compelling.  However, I do in fact prefer a bicameral system.

>But then, we would not be a country if we did that.

How do you figure?  As I see it, as long as a collection of jurisdictions share armed forces they are pretty much a country.  All the rest is dressing.
 
Brad Sallows said:
>But then, we would not be a country if we did that.

How do you figure?  As I see it, as long as a collection of jurisdictions share armed forces they are pretty much a country.  All the rest is dressing.

Maybe not. Collections of shared jurisdiction are a confederation (or a confederacy), and the binding power of their collective armed forces may or may not be all that is needed to bind the people together. The Delian League was plagued by constant revolts, and the biggest problem faced by the Confederate States of America was the various States wanted to go off in their own directions (with their own armed forces) rather than carrying out a unified war plan. (As an aside, the Union wasn't much better in the beginning, [America was properly known as "These United States"] but the Republican Administration laid the foundation of the modern bureaucracy in order to mobilize the military, economic and natural resources for the war effort).
 
As an aside (and this may warrant its own thread), what neccesarily makes the Province any better at securing it's citizens from the policies of a distant majority?  Canada has some pretty big provinces, many with both regional and urban/rural divides.  Would a citizen of, say, central British Columbia be anymore satisfied with Vancouver or Victoria pushing through legislation than PEI imposing its will on Confederation (to stick with your example  :)).  This suggests to me that our definition of region may be antiquated and inadequete.  I know I've broached this before, but I feel that the maximum distance a person will travel to do commerce and other social function is roughly 100km.  Perhaps a large variety of government function should be devolved down to a level like this, a new 'polis' if you will.
 
Well we can at least see the direction the wind is starting to blow:

http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog/index/weblog/harper_provides_sign_that_canada_is_becoming_a_grownup_country

Harper provides sign that Canada is becoming a grownup country
Posted by Joel Johannesen

Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper today appointed the twice voter-elected Bert Brown to the Liberals’ Canadian Senate division.  He will sit as a Conservative. 

Liberals are against that. The Liberals ignored the wishes of the Canadian people on this Senate matter, as they often did and continue to do.  Liberals have worked hard at appointing liberals to every facet of Canadian life, and as such, Canada is now replete with liberals running and working in and dominating every facet of Canadian life. 

Bert Brown ran in an Alberta election for the Senate in 2004.  Prime Minister Harper apparently cares about what Canadians think—risking the notion that they—the citizens instead of a bunch of self-anointed liberal elitists — might be right.  The beauty of the current situation is that now, both Prime Minister Harper and the citizens are both right. 

Posted by Joel Johannesen on 04/18/07 at 01:49 PM
 
RangerRay said:
Great news!  A step in the right direction!  :)

Not everyone agrees, of course.....

Bert Brown's red chamber
Colby Cosh, National Post
Published: Friday, April 20, 2007

To understand the argument in favour of the Brown appointment, one only need look at who is opposing it. Stephane Dion claims that Albertans are settling for piecemeal Senate reform, and goads them with the antiquated seat distribution in the upper House. But piecemeal reform seems like a pretty nutritious alternative to going hungry, and that's what will happen if Albertans must wait for a Quebec signature on the constitution in order for any reform to go ahead.

Worse still, Dion expresses open doubts that Brown is "the best person" for the job. Even for Dion, this may be an extravagant new accomplishment in tone-deafness. Granting that Mr. Brown has opened himself to a modicum of criticism by openly seeking a Senate job, the remark will leave Albertans wondering whether generations of Liberal prime ministers were really always selecting the "best person" when they elevated throngs of failed Liberal candidates and skulking partisan satchel-carriers to the Senate.

But at least Dion, unlike others in his party, spared us the complaints that it is "unconstitutional" for a prime minister to appoint a Senator who won an election and who otherwise meets the requirements of the office. According to this theory, the only eligible Albertans Mr. Harper is categorically forbidden to appoint are the four people who were actually chosen by the province's voters in 2004. There could be no possible "constitutional" objection, after all, if Harper deliberately chose from the list of people who lost that election, or even if he pulled a random Albertan's name out of a hat on national television.

This is self-evident nonsense, and it is being put before the public only because the Conservatives now wield the prime ministerial authority. In truth, Harper's selection of Bert Brown is in our best constitutional traditions. It is the kind of organic, fractional change, implemented by means of unwritten convention, that brought about our model of government in the first place -- not that a good Liberal would admit to knowing anything about that.

Colbycosh@gmail.com
 
Pragmatic incrementalism is the tradition of Westminster.  Solutions for all eternity are the province of the Constitutionalists - that way they keep themselves busy constantly rewriting new Constitutions.  Lessee: Sargon, Hammurabi, various Pharaohs, Moses, Justinian, Code Civil, Napoleon, Multiple French Republics......  The Americans have a neat variation on a them they "carved a Constitution in stone" then kept on hand a body of stone-cutting scribes to constantly update the stone and read it back to the masses.  Trudeau's acolytes seem to like that variation.  Of course Russia, China, N. Korea, Cuba, Venezuela and Zimbabwe all have Constitutions but the say exactly what the Bossman says they say.

Parliamentarianism is about the pragmatic tyranny of the majority in order to minimize conflict.  It adjusts to the realities of the day.  It doesn't/shouldn't spend time looking for eternal verities.  That is the job of the clergy, both secular and religious.
 
It should be noted that until Oregon started electing senators, the US Senate was appointed by each individual state.

EDIT to add:  Incrementalism works!
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Earlier this week the National Post ran an informative, if quite wrong-headed, series on the ever popular subject of Senate reform.  The series was too long to reproduce here but Andrew Coyne’s response is not.  Here it is, from today’s Post, reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

----------
Fear of a democratic Senate

Andrew Coyne

Saturday, March 18, 2006

Before this week's series on Senate reform -- only in your soar-away National Post -- I had been under the impression that reform of the Senate was a desirable thing. At any rate I had thought that it was a desired thing -- that somewhere in this favoured land at least a few Canadians thought the present House of the Timeservers should be replaced with something less disgraceful, namely a house elected by universal suffrage, as I understand is often the practice in democracies. I had understood that there were differences of opinion on this great and weighty issue, and that while many believed a reformed Senate was needed to offer some counterweight to the power of the more populous regions, many others disagreed.

How wrong I was. Not content with the daily diet of front-page stories explaining all the many dozens of ways Senate reform simply Could Not Be Done, the Post also put its readers through a strenuous regimen of op-ed pieces exhorting that it Should Not Be Done. Two were explicitly anti-reform, differing only on the comparatively trivial question of whether it should be kept as is or done away with altogether. The third, by my friend Lorne Gunter, was ostensibly pro-reform, but with one caveat: that by reform, he did not actually mean reform. Under the Gunter plan, senators, instead of being appointed by the prime minister, would be appointed by the premiers. The provinces would then control one-and-a-half levels of government: their own, in the usual fashion, and the feds' by remote control.

So I can only conclude that no one in this country actually favours Senate reform, much as no one thinks there should be any serious check on the prime minister's power to appoint Supreme Court judges, or that Parliament should be required to abide by the rights it enshrined in the Charter, without recourse to the notwithstanding override -- issues on which the same consensus of the great and good has lately pronounced, always on the side of the status quo. The democratic deficit? No such thing. Everything is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

Still, there is the little matter of a government having been elected on a platform promising, among other things, to begin the process of Senate reform. Which makes the opposition of the learned Gunter and fellow travellers such as Gordon Gibson, also quoted in the Post series, so intriguing. Both are from the West. Both support the Conservative party, and were supporters of the Reform party before it -- a party that arose in large part to address the democratic failings of the federal government, the Senate before all. And both are now skeptical of Senate reform, at least on the democratic model, on the grounds that -- I confess this had not occurred to me as an objection -- it would make the federal government more democratic.

This is how tightly provincialism has gripped some sections of the conservative movement: They would prefer an undemocratic, and hence illegitimate, federal government, rather than suffer any power to arise that might rival that of the provinces. "Were the central government to achieve the legitimacy of genuine, directly elected regional representation in a reformed Senate," Mr. Gibson warns, "the balance would be upset. Power would follow the new legitimacy."

Mr. Gunter goes further. "The centralization of authority in Washington," he notes with alarm, "can be traced to the 17th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which mandated the election of senators directly by the people of their states. Prior to that, senators were elected to six-year terms by their state legislatures...

"Not surprisingly, senators were highly attentive to the will of their state representatives. But after the 17th Amendment, senators quickly learned to approve all sorts of new federal spending and regulations and laws to please the voters back home... The same will happen here if senators become federal players rather than provincial representatives."

Gracious. Senators focused on "pleasing the voters" rather than jumping to the commands of their provincial patrons. A Senate filled with "federal players" rather than "provincial representatives." A reminder: He means this as an objection.

But of course this is precisely the argument in favour of reform: not only that it is unseemly, in a democracy, to be governed by any but those the people elect, but that the presence of such a house of ill repute in our national capital has served to discredit the federal government itself. Nor is this resolved by abolition: The pressures for regional representation do not go away just because the Senate does. In the absence of a legitimate upper house, that role has been played by the provincial premiers, who have no constitutional standing whatever to intrude themselves into federal matters.

I can understand why the premiers would be so fearful of Senate reform: Their own role would be diminished accordingly. But it is an oddity to see others make the same case against it -- not that it wouldn't work, but that it would.

© National Post 2006
----------

I want to use this as a springboard to suggest that it is not just Senate Reform which is required, we, Canada, need to introduce some form of representative democracy with a few fairly basic principles such as, just for example, one person : one vote in elected legislatures.

I understand that many Canadians believe we have a liberal, democratic, representative democracy; I also understand that many Canadian believe in Santa and the tooth fairy.  All those myths, Santa slides down the chimney, Canada is a representative democracy, the tooth fairy leaves money are equally well founded.

Consider, just for example, one person : one vote.  A voter in Cardigan PEI had, in the 2006 general election, a vote worth about 3 times that cast by a voter in Calgary-Nose Hill or over 2.5 times that cast by a voter in Chatham Essex-Kent in Ontario.  Remember, we are not talking about very small populations in our vast, remote Arctic lands – Cardigan is a lot like Chatham Essex Kent except that it has way, way less than half the population but the same political ‘value’ in Ottawa.

There is a reason why PEI votes are so valuable: PEI has four Senate seats and, according to our Constitution, no province may have fewer MPs than it has Senators.  To change that particular provision of the Constitution requires the unanimous consent of the national parliament and all ten provincial legislatures.

One of the reasons so many people oppose Senate reform is that they perceive that a Constitutional amendment would be required and they agree, amongst themselves, that meaningful Constitutional reform regarding the nature of the state (including parliamentary representation) is impossible under the 1982 Constitution.

So, should we give up, quit, cut and run?

No!

Meaningful democratic reform: creating a fairly modern representative, secular, liberal democracy, is possible.

First we need to recognize that, except for a very, very few special ridings in the Yukon and High Arctic we needURGENTLY need – real representative democracy which will be based on the idea that for 95+% of Canadians one person’s vote will be worth roughly the same as any other person’s vote – say plus or minus 20%.  There is, in my opinion, a simple and, relatively, cheap and easy way to do this, without amending the Constitution: increase the number of MPs to about 1,000.  This requires serious, apolitical rebalancing of seats within provinces – a Toronto Centre vote is ‘worth’ 1.5 times more an Algoma-Manitoulin-Kapuskasing vote within Ontario.  We should settle for one MP for about every 25,000 to 35,000 residents or every 25,000 registered electors.  That means PEI needs 4 MPs, just as it has today, and just as it is Constitutionally required to have.  Alberta needs 91, that’s 3.25 times its current allotment of 28 and Ontario needs a whopping 335, 3.1 times its current 106 – that’s more MPs for Ontario than there are seats in today’s HoC just to provide Ontario with equal representation.

Now, I can hear the screams already: There are already too many of those overpaid, pampered bums.  We can’t afford more!

Yes we can.  Let’s say that each MP ‘costs’ about $1,000,000 per year – salary, benefits, staff, parliamentary library, etc, etc – that’s probably a bit high, but that’s OK.  So we spend as much as $300 million now – about of 0.2% of the budget.  Could we not:

• Triple the number of MPs;

• Increase the parliamentary staff by, say, only 60%, increasing the staff budgets to, say, only $300 million, therefore;

• Reform how MPs work, how they are supported (fewer staff for each), how committees are managed, and, and, and … because so many MPs will require new ways of working; and

• Cut their salaries and staffs, a bit, so that we spend, let’s say $750,000 per MP and thus spend ½ of 1% of the budget on democracy?

Is ½ of 1% of the national budget really too much for a functioning democracy?

We can reform the Senate, too.  I have explained, here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25692/post-218220.html#msg218220  here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25692/post-200811.html#msg200811 and here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/25692/post-200450.html#msg200450 how I think our Prime Minister should go about it.  My proposal would institutionalize an existing measure of inequality.  Alberta has 2.9 million voters and only six senators, Nova Scotia has only 750,000 electors but it gets 10 senators – that’s a 5:1 disparity.  Only Québec is fairly represented I the Senate of Canada – it has a bit less than 25% of the senators for a bit less than 25% of the population.  Atlantic Canada is grossly over represented and Canada West of the Ottawa River is grossly underrepresented.

We should have a equal Senate – because it should represent the equal partners in the federation: the provinces.  That, too, requires unanimous agreement and is, consequently, probably a practical impossibility.  It may have to be sufficient, for now, to make the Senate elected, which may take 20 years to accomplish, completely.  An elected Senate will make itself effective: one of the reasons the National Post authors opposed democracy!  Equality might have to wait for political maturity in Canada, maybe that will be a 22nd century phenomenon.

Edit: typos

I am bumping this up because of this article, reproduced here from today’s Globe and Mail under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070517.wpop0518/BNStory/National/home
Tory bill unfair to Ontario, McGuinty charges
Formula would cost seats, Premier says

BRIAN LAGHI AND KAREN HOWLETT
From Friday's Globe and Mail
May 17, 2007 at 1:37 AM EDT

OTTAWA and TORONTO — Ontario will be shortchanged in House of Commons seats by federal legislation introduced last week to bring fast-growing provinces up to par, Premier Dalton McGuinty said yesterday.

The bill put forward by the Conservative government would ensure that the number of British Columbians and Albertans necessary to elect a member of Parliament would approximate the national average, but Ontario would remain under-represented.

“It leaves us scratching our heads and wondering why we've been left out of a solution,” Mr. McGuinty said last night.

The legislation is written in such a way that Quebec's ratio of voters to MPs becomes the benchmark. But any provinces larger than Quebec – Ontario is the only one – would not enjoy the full benefits. According to his government's numbers, in 2021 Ontario's share of the national population will hit 40.4 per cent while its share of seats will be 35.6 per cent, an under-representation of 4.8 per cent. The Ontario under-representation in 2011 is projected at 4.3 per cent. By contrast, the under-representation of B.C. and Alberta will disappear between those years.

Mr. McGuinty said he plans to enlist the support of all Ontario MPs to urge Ottawa to instill fairness into the system.

His concerns come in the wake of legislation unveiled by the federal government last week – changes the Conservatives promised in the last election. The plan would eventually add 22 seats to the House of Commons, all of them in Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta. Ontario would get 10, B.C. seven and Alberta five. Those seats would probably come into play around 2014. Government House Leader Peter Van Loan, who is the minister responsible for democratic reform, said last night that Ontario will be much better off under the government's proposal than if the formula for apportioning seats remains the same.

Under the current formula, Ontario would receive an extra four seats, while Alberta would get one and British Columbia two. No other provinces would get an increase under either formula.

“Certainly, the bottom line is Ontario does far better under this formula than the current formula,” Mr. Van Loan said.

However, the legislation would give every province, with the notable exception of Ontario, enough ridings to match the size of their population. For example, by 2011, Ontario will have 35.2 per cent of the seats and 39.4 per cent of the population, compared with Quebec, which will have 22.7 per cent of the seats and 23 per cent of the population.

No province, save Ontario, will have a gap of more than one percentage point between their seat allotment and their share of the national population.

Mr. Van Loan acknowledged that Ontario is under-represented, but said the government's solution is better than the status quo. “Alberta and B.C. move basically to representation by population. Ontario doesn't go all the way to representation by population, but they get a lot closer than under the existing formula.”

The under-representation of Ontario is not a new issue. In 2001, 38 per cent of Canadians lived in Ontario, but the province had 34.4 per cent of the federal ridings, leaving it with 3.6 per cent fewer seats than people.

The changes have also caused controversy in Quebec, where the seat totals are not expected to change.

All three parties in Quebec's National Assembly unanimously adopted a motion this week calling on the House of Commons to back down on the measures outlined in the democratic reform legislation.

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe also went on the attack yesterday, accusing Prime Minister Stephen Harper of reducing Quebec's political clout in an effort to appease members of the Conservative base who opposed the government's recognition of Quebec as a nation.

“The Quebec ministers in this government have done nothing to defend the political clout of ‘their' nation,” Mr. Duceppe said.

Conservative ministers responded by noting Quebec will always be guaranteed a minimum of 75 MPs and took a shot at Mr. Duceppe's short-lived run for the leadership of the Parti Québécois.

“When it comes to defending Quebec's interests, I think they are very well served,” Transport Minister Lawrence Cannon responded in the House.

Mr. Harper was not in the Commons yesterday.

With a report from Bill Curry

There are some interesting, albeit slightly misleading graphics in the print edition … old adages about ”lies, damned lies and statistics” apply there.

Premier McGuinty is (partially) right – Ontario, with 15 more seats by 2021 (10 in 2011 and 5 more in 2021) is worse off than it should be but Mr. Van Loan is also correct – Ontario is substantially better off than it would be if nothing is done.

The basic problem is: Canada’s democracy is locked into a 19th century mould thanks to a Constitutional amending formula designed to frustrate democratic reform.

I’m a bit of a purist: while I accept that it may be necessary to provide additional money and staff to MPs from e.g. Nunavut to aid the Member in representing his (or her) huge, remote riding, I do not believe that the value of a Nunavut voter can be more than three times that of the ‘average’ Canadian voter and four times that of some Canadian voters in some major urban centres.  That’s fundamentally undemocratic and it ought to be absolutely unacceptable in a country that wants to be a functioning, liberal democracy.  That it is not a major cause célèbre in Canada is indicative of the very, very low quality of Canadians as citizens.  We are, broadly, stupid, lazy, greedy, envious and ill-educated.

The Constitution does not allow discussion of democratic reform without opening the whole kit and caboodle – including the basic structure of the state.  No government in its right mind wants to reopen debates about trading fish for freedom and the like – the Constitution Act of 1982 (the work of a numskull prime minister and his bungling, sycophantic justice minister) enshrines 19th century conservatism for a 21st century nation-state.

I know no one likes the idea of more and more politicians but, as Mrs. Thatcher was wont to say: “There is no alternative.”  The system is broken.  It is worse than broken: the system disenfranchises most Canadians – a handful of Canadians in Atlantic Canada, the prairies and the North are over-represented while the majority in Ontario, Alberta and BC, especially in urban centres in those provinces, are grievously under-represented.  The basic principle of and the fundamental right to equality are sacrificed on the alter of temporary electoral advantage.

A federal state, like Canada, needs a bicameral legislature:

• One chamber (the Senate in Canada) needs to represent the equal partners in the federation – the provinces;

• The other chamber (the House of Commons) ne3eds to represent the citizens, equally.

Equality is a key principle.  Prince Edward island IS equal to Québec.  Both are provinces.  Each, as a province, is entitled to the same voice in the nation’s affairs.  That why the Senate needs to exist – as a house of the provinces.  Québec is, equally, entitled to a greater voice than prince Edward Island because it has more people – that’s why the HoC needs to provide (roughly) equal representation for each and every citizen.  A school teacher in Churchill River (SK) is not worth more than a shopkeeper in Trinity-Spadina (ON).  Each must have an equal voice in the nation’s affairs.  When, as in Canada, they do not then the state of democracy is arrested, even retarded.  That (a retarded demcracy) ought not to be good enough for citizens, not even for Canadians.
 
First off I'd like to invite Edward to get out of my OODA cycle. ;D  What you have written sir is much more succinct and intelligible than I could have and you have struck most of my high points. 

I do have some thoughts of my own to add though, starting from the top down...

The Governor General:  In my opinion this position has become little more than a useless hangover of a pre-WW1 Canada.  It stems from an era of British global dominance as well as an English desire to maintain a grip on "the colonies" when we as a nation were too timid to stand up and be counted.  Today the GG is to a functioning head of state what the Yugo is to automotive excellence. 

Needless to say I would like to see us make this a true elected head of state, embodying all the stately functions as well as giving it the political license to speak for Canada and Canadians outside of the country.  The illiberal, ceremonial and functionary status of this office as it is today is an insult to the concept of a liberal representative democracy.

The election of the Governor General should be a simple form of PR, each party or independent should enter a single candidate with a first round of voting and a runoff between the top two finishers to decide who gets the job.

The Senate:  Overall Edward has stolen my thunder on this issue I will add however that in addition to the equal representation of all the provinces (4 Senators per) I would add into the mix an additional 4 Aboriginal Senator seats to represent Canada's first nations as an equal partner in Canada.

Senators would be chosen on province wide votes with the top 4 candidates on a FPTP ballot being sent to the Red Chamber

The HoC I would like to see based on PR, STV to be exact, this is still doable with Edwards 1 vote for 1 person, it just means that PEI would most likely be reduced to a single Riding (electing 4MP's)

Now, to make it all work...

Here is where most of you are probably going to think I've fallen off my barstool (it wouldn't be the first time)

First the functional relationships.

1.  The Governor General being primarily concerned with the big picture, Canada's place in the world, national defence, International treaties, alliances and general Diplomacy would be paired with the House of Commons, which would also be constitutionally focused narrowly on those types of issues. 

This in my opinion is the logical course.  MP's represent ridings but they also (currently) have the responsibility to decide Canada's role, relationships and responsibilities to the wider world, but then they also get their fingers stuck in provincial pies leading to a single house of parliament trying to be everything to everyone.  A Jack of all trades and master of none is what we the people are left with.  So let's take internal National issues off their plate.  Lets let them focus their effort and best work to work with the head of state and develop a unified, holistic and coherent Canadian international policy.

2.  The Prime Minister is, or should be a National figure.  I see his job as first among equals as the protector and prime representative of the constitution.  The constitution is a NATIONAL document and as such deals specifically with Canada's internal workings and the relationships between the provinces and territories and the Federal government.  The constitution does not deal with the rest of the planet, only our small part of it.

The PM should work with what we now know as the "Council of the Federation", that is to say the provinces, but not as dictator to the provinces as is now the case during "first Ministers meetings" but as an honest broker to facilitate inter-provincial agreements.  There is currently so much inconsistency and provincial discrepancies that it is often easier for goods and services to move North and South between individual provinces and the US than it is for the goods to move east to west between provinces.

Also the PM would, in my mind, work with the Senate as the senators are the Provincial guardians of their rights within the constitution.  I believe that once the international responsibilities have been removed that this job could be done effectively with the PM and 44 Senators and the Federation of The provinces working together.

So what would all this jiggery-pokery mean?  Well if you've been paying attention you see that I've cerated 2 separate unicameral houses. With no-one checking their work this means that each house would have to be very diligent in crafting legislation but with the scope of that legislation narrowed it would allow for a little more expertise than currently found.  All legislation would still require the GG's ascent and the GGO would be expected to exercise due diligence prior to that ascent.

Now for my rant...

The Constitution:  The constitution is or should be a living document, but we Canadians have become so gun shy in dealing with it that we have failed to reform the things that are more than reformable.  The amending formula is not a one shot deal.  In areas of purely Federal responsibility the federal govenment needs only the approval of the HoC, in areas shared by the Fed and one province only the fed and that province need approve of the change.  The only time that 3/4 of the provinces and the fed has to approve is when the changes involve all the provinces and the feds.

It is also a fallacy that opening the constitution on one issue opens it for all issues.  Just like any other piece of legislation the legislation is written for one a particular issue.  Yes, someone can try to alter it in committee but should that happen then all the originating party has to do is write it out again, work with it or scrap the deal as it is.  It's called negotiation!  Our MP's and MLA's have to get over this one shot, my way or the highway mentality.  Why on earth would we as a nation spend literally years debating same sex marriage but reduce Federal Provincial relationships and responsibilities to a take it or leave it proposition?

Since I'm ranting already...

All three parties in Quebec's National Assembly unanimously adopted a motion this week calling on the House of Commons to back down on the measures outlined in the democratic reform legislation.

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe also went on the attack yesterday, accusing Prime Minister Stephen Harper of reducing Quebec's political clout in an effort to appease members of the Conservative base who opposed the government's recognition of Quebec as a nation.

Now, who says Quebec isn't hell bent as a province (all 3 parties in the QNA) to blackmail the RoC.  Gilles, Mario, Jean, thanks for the empirical evidence fellas.  Equality is not Quebec uber alles.
 
I have to say, Mr. Campbell, that I agree with much of what you said.  Representation in the HoC should be based on population, and representation in the Senate should be divided equally amongst the provinces, with less representation from the territories, so that the two can balance each other off.  I too feel that we need more representation (i.e. politicians), not less.
 
RangerRay said:
I have to say, Mr. Campbell, that I agree with much of what you said.  Representation in the HoC should be based on population, and representation in the Senate should be divided equally amongst the provinces, with less representation from the territories, so that the two can balance each other off.  I too feel that we need more representation (i.e. politicians), not less.

I think the Senate needs a major overhaul, as an Albertan, in a highly Conservative province, we have 5 Liberal senators and 1 conservative. Mitchell has pushed through the Kyoto bill, obviously not even thinking about how it will impact Alberta. Why should anyone in Canada not be able to vote for who should represent them in the Senate? Why should do nothings get to sit for years in the Senate, without any accountability to voters? Who actually thinks that the PM should have the right to appoint their buddies to the Senate. Pass the brown bag.
 
Reccesoldier said:
I will add however that in addition to the equal representation of all the provinces (4 Senators per) I would add into the mix an additional 4 Aboriginal Senator seats to represent Canada's first nations as an equal partner in Canada.

I think giving people political rights based upon ethnic/racial background is the absolute worst thing to do, especially in an egalitarian democracy.  "Super"-empowering any group (by giving them not only a vote for being a citizen but one based upon race) is just as bad as disenfranchising people for the same reason; someone else in the body politic loses out due to their ethnic background.
 
Infanteer said:
I think giving people political rights based upon ethnic/racial background is the absolute worst thing to do . . .
+1
 
Infanteer said:
I think giving people political rights based upon ethnic/racial background is the absolute worst thing to do, especially in an egalitarian democracy.  "Super"-empowering any group (by giving them not only a vote for being a citizen but one based upon race) is just as bad as disenfranchising people for the same reason; someone else in the body politic loses out due to their ethnic background.

Normally I would agree but not in this case.  Canada's Aboriginals and their interests are NOT represented in our parliament, and leaving their dealings with the federal government to corrupt chiefs and band leaders will only get us more of the same (Oka, Caledonia, summers of protest). 

This initiative would take the majority of power away from the band and put it in the hands of elected representatives.  Let me be clear, the election of these 4 Aboriginal Senators would be a democratic practice, no wishy washy meeting of elders, smoke a peace pipe or some such nausea, we do not want to perpetuate the worst of aboriginal governance.

No one in the body politic would loose anything by recognizing the third solitude of this country.  As a block they would be 4 senators out of 44, a voice for sure but definitely not an overpowering one.
 
Reccesoldier said:
Normally I would agree but not in this case.  Canada's Aboriginals and their interests are NOT represented in our parliament, and leaving their dealings with the federal government to corrupt chiefs and band leaders will only get us more of the same (Oka, Caledonia, summers of protest). 
I would argue that the aboriginals would vote for local parliamentarians and provincial senators.  No other ethnic group has specific representation in national government.

Reccesoldier said:
This initiative would take the majority of power away from the band and put it in the hands of elected representatives. 
I don’t see how this would be achieved.  Senators do not replace provincial governments, and aboriginal senators would not some how be empowered to goven the many communities across the country.

Perhaps if all reserves across the nation were grouped into one territory with its own territorial government.  That would create an elected body with power over local chiefs.
 
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