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Election 2015

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SupersonicMax said:
Do you have a family, a house and/or a car!?

Too soon, impossible (604 area code, see...), not needed under the present circumstances. Also atypically spare living, but I take your point about average households and their many other expenses.

Per recceguy's request to remain on-topic, I think the outgoing government left the Liberals one heck of a hot potato in the high levels of household debt (mortgages especially).
I didn't recall hearing any ideas from the three main parties on how to defuse the housing bubble

SupersonicMax said:
I think we can probably kiss them goodbye at this point!!  At least the conversion to the Super Hornet won't be too drastic...

I'm more worried it'll just drag on forever like the whole Sea King replacement
 
>If nothing else, if he carries through on the promise to reinvest in infrastructure that alone would be excellent

If you have to borrow to maintain what you already have, you have a serious problem.  If you continue borrowing to add to the things you already have to maintain, you have a grave problem.  Maintaining status quo isn't growth.
 
recceguy said:
Let's stick with the election theme of the thread everyone. If you want to talk changes to investment strategies, start a new thread.

---Staff---

I do think that our NATO allies will have an effect on our defence policy.

Trudeau the Second may think he's the one in charge.....until our allies lean on him.....
 
Hamish Seggie said:
I do think that our NATO allies will have an effect on our defence policy.

Trudeau the Second may think he's the one in charge.....until our allies lean on him.....
As long as Canadian troops are continuing to train iraqi forces do you for see any issues?
 
>I think the outgoing government left the Liberals one heck of a hot potato in the high levels of household debt (mortgages especially).

Huh?  When did we start blaming the federal government for our own spending?

But you did identify something that is a policy problem: whether to let people deleverage (reduce debt) without compensating for the fall in private spending with public spending.  So far governments here - and elsewhere - have demonstrated that they are desperate to put off that reckoning.  My guess is the longer the correction is put off, the harsher it will be when it becomes uncontrollable - but I have been wrong so far that the reckoning is nigh.
 
Brad Sallows said:
>I think the outgoing government left the Liberals one heck of a hot potato in the high levels of household debt (mortgages especially).

Huh?  When did we start blaming the federal government for our own spending?

I don't think I was blaming the federal government for it there - just pointing out that it's an issue that the outgoing party no longer needs to worry about handling. Although there was that early period (2006-2008) when the gov't backed 100% financing and 40-year term mortgages before backtracking on that.

That said, the housing-focused portion of the stimulus plan (Home Renovation Tax Credit) gave a shot in the arm to a cyclical industry (construction) that was going to result in a pool of excess workers the second demand for new housing slowed down.

But you did identify something that is a policy problem: whether to let people deleverage (reduce debt) without compensating for the fall in private spending with public spending.  So far governments here - and elsewhere - have demonstrated that they are desperate to put off that reckoning.  My guess is the longer the correction is put off, the harsher it will be when it becomes uncontrollable - but I have been wrong so far that the reckoning is nigh.

Your guess sounds reasonable to me. There's any number of ways the correction can occur, and we'll likely see different ones in different places. Some areas might see subprime-like price crashes, while others might see prices stagnate for years (and years) until inflation eventually eats away at it.
 
Navy_Pete said:
...Interestingly enough, looks like Joe Oliver and Julian Fantino won't make it in.  And possibly Gilles Duceppe.

    :'(





  Not.



Congratulations to PM (designate) Trudeau.  Now to measure up (and hopefully exceed) the expectations he built up.

Regards
G2G
 
John Ibbitson speaks on "Three things Canadians will not miss about Stephen Harper," in this Globe and Mail video and, in a second video on the "historic rebuke" the Liberals delivered to both Stephen Harper and Thomas Mulcair.

In both videos Mr Ibbitson makes the points that we shouldn't expect too much onto many promises too soon.

Those who have followed my thoiughts here will know that:

    1. I am pleased we have a majority government ~ it's not a government that proposed the policies I wanted but it can be effective and we can hold it to account, in fourish years time, for how well it kept (or not) its promises;

    2. I am pleased to see the Liberals "reborn" as, finally, after 50 years, a national party again. I never did like the idea of "destroying the Liberals" and having a NDP (left) <> CPC (right) two party system, à la Labour <> Conservatives in the UK;

    3. I look forward to a CPC leadership contest. I believe that we need two robust, centrist and national parties and that we can afford to have two more, narrower, more ideological left and right wing parties (NDP and whatever
        spins off from a too centrist CPC) and even one or two regional/provincial parties;

    4. I am very interested in seeing who joins M Trudeau on his front bench, especially in Finance, as President of the Treasury Board, as Foreign Minister and, of course, as MND and who he picks to be (remain?) as his Clerk and his Chief of Staff.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Shocker in Quebec: BQ: 9, CPC: 9, Lib: 53, NDP: 6 at 2224 Hrs (Eastern) ~ the NDP vote appears to have collapsed in Quebec.


The final results are less shocking: BQ: 10, CPC: 12, LPC: 40 and NDP: 16, but they seem to indicate that:

    1. The Liberals have restored much of their old, going all the way back to Laurier at the turn of the 20th century, base in Quebec;

    2. The NDP now has a secure foothold in the province; and

    3. The CPC has a respectable base in Quebec.
 
Jeffrey Simpson, speaking on behalf of the Laurentian Consensus, cannot resist being a bit nasty in this column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, but, 'bottom line up front,' as they say, check out his last paragraph ... it will be the truth:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-politics-insider/defeat-by-trudeau-is-the-ultimate-insult-for-harper/article26881327/
My emphasis added
gam-masthead.png

Defeat by Trudeau is the ultimate insult for Harper

SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

Jeffrey Simpson
OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail

Last updated Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2015

Losing power is bad enough; losing it to a Trudeau with a thumping majority is the ultimate political insult for Stephen Harper, who resigned on Monday night.

Everything in Mr. Harper’s political career from his early days as an assistant in Ottawa was directed at undoing or diluting as much as possible of prime minister Pierre Trudeau’s vision of government and Canada. Now, to be crushed by Mr. Trudeau’s son Justin, someone Mr. Harper considers intellectually weak and, worse, a chip off the old man’s block, must cut the Conservative Leader to the core.

Quebec-centred politics. Constitutional reform fixation. Large fiscal deficits. Expanding government. Regional development programs. Generous social programs. A meddling state. Middle-power internationalism without any definition of Canada’s interests. Tweaking the Americans’ nose. Mr. Harper interpreted as a mistake almost all of what he considered to be Pierre Trudeau’s legacy – a legacy his son has updated and placed in the 2015 Liberal Party’s platform.

This Liberal victory was stunning in that it was unforeseen until very, very recently. Stunning, too, was the Conservative defeat. The party’s low share of the popular vote ranked as one of the worst showings by a right-of-centre federal party in this century.

Mr. Harper will therefore be remembered for having won two minority governments and one majority and having been prime minister for nine years – an impressive accomplishment by any measure – but also for Monday’s defeat. And that defeat, more than any other explanation, reflected a widespread and deep aversion to his style of leadership, his persona and all the nicks and cuts that accumulate after nine years in office.

Time for a change is the oldest and most powerful force in a democracy. The Conservatives, as happens to a party long in power, ran on more of the same, whereas the country wanted something different.

The Liberals captured the desire for change much better than the New Democratic Party, which made tactical and strategic decisions that blew up in its face. The NDP read its own press clippings and believed Canadians considered the party prepared to govern, whereas it was, and remains, the third party in the country, notwithstanding the fluky 2011 result. The disappointment of Monday night will provoke much internal debate about leadership, long-term policy orientations and how to respond in the short term.

The two deepest emotions in politics are fear and hope. The Conservatives campaigned, especially towards the end, on fear of Mr. Trudeau, his inexperience and his policies. But after almost a decade of polarizing, bruising, partisan politics as practised by the Harper Conservatives, large swaths of the country wanted a different tone.

A lot of Canadians were tired of the politics of fear, preferring a message of hope. Mr. Trudeau gave it to them, albeit on a cloud of clichés and some improbable policies, arguing that change could come “now,” that he could bring people together rather than trying to divide them for political purposes, and that his youth, far from being a crippling liability, suggested energy and freshness after the sour and humourless politics that had gripped Ottawa.

Mr. Trudeau’s opponents underestimated and denigrated him (“He’s just not ready”). The attacks worked for a while, but then, as he refused to make mistakes, performed acceptably in televised debates, presented a platform that conformed with focus groups’ desire for activist government, Canadians gave the Liberal Leader a second look. He could, after all, walk and chew gum at the same time. Maybe he was “ready.” Maybe, a growing number of Canadians said to themselves, that time for a change meant him.

The Liberal decline from the election of 2004 had suggested that perhaps Canada was witnessing the strange death of Liberal Canada, but last night put paid to that idea. In many Western democracies, politics has evolved in ideological fights between right and left, with little room for centrist parties.

Monday’s result suggests that the old joke about Canadians crossing the road to get to the middle is not far off the mark. Critics are already sniffing that the Liberals will once again campaign from the left but govern from the right. They have done it before. With rude shocks of reality awaiting the new government, do not be surprised if that Liberal pattern re-emerges.


I believe that we have witnessed and are witnessing "the strange death of Liberal Canada," in so far as "Liberal Canada" was Pierre Trudeau's Canada which Mr Simpson describes as "Quebec-centred politics. Constitutional reform fixation. Large fiscal deficits. Expanding government. Regional development programs. Generous social programs. A meddling state. Middle-power internationalism without any definition of Canada’s interests. Tweaking the Americans’ nose." I am pretty sure that is all gone. Yes, M Trudeau will have to "pay off" Quebec and Atlantic Canada, those 75+ seats are his new, firm base. How many deficits he runs ~ and I'm sure he will run one or two, just for show ~ and how large they are remains to be seen, but Pierre Trudeau's style of "regional development" (pork barrelling) and "generous social programmes" are done, I think. Some tweaking, to rob Peter and pay Paul, here and there, on the margins, but no more unaffordable "just society" rubbish, in my opinion.

As for scandals and corruption ... who knows? But this is the Liberal Party of Canada so I will not be surprised when they appear.
 
My, my. I wonder what all these journalists will do with their time now that they don't have to campaign against Stephen Harper anymore? Of course there'll be a week or two of smugness and depreciation left for the final kick, then a few weeks of pandering and kissing up to the new regime. However, now their job is effectively done, they might as well take a vacation until the Trudeau Liberals have settled in and have the coronation and budget stuff out of the way. It'll be awhile yet before the fourth estate turns on their new political master.

Enjoy the quiet times. They won't last.
 
This, by Bruce MacKinnon in the Chronicle Herald, could be, arguably should be, the last word on this topic:

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Source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/editorial-cartoon/2015-10-20-editorial-cartoon
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A refernce for those with short memories or those who don't follow sports:

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Ok, am I just dense?  How do the Liberals win 184 of 338 seats and a majority, but only have 39.5% of the popular vote  ???
 
Dimsum said:
Ok, am I just dense?  How do the Liberals win 184 of 338 seats and a majority, but only have 39.5% of the popular vote  ???

I thought they had 53%, or did that number stick around, in my head, after my nightmare last night?  ;D
 
E.R. Campbell said:
This, by Bruce MacKinnon in the Chronicle Herald, could be, arguably should be, the last word on this topic:

It should be, however, I believe the Canadian MSM will be poking the dead body with pointy sticks for a couple of weeks yet. The feeling of being cheated by the boogeyman is still too strong, they'll want to make sure he's dead.
 
Dimsum said:
Ok, am I just dense?  How do the Liberals win 184 of 338 seats and a majority, but only have 39.5% of the popular vote  ???


Isn't FPTP wonderful?

    (I did a bit of a crude arithmetic analysis of recent Canadian election result a few years ago (here, on Army.ca) and concluded that FPTP does, indeed, reward the winners and punish the losers a bit ~ not hugely, as we can see the
      LPC got nearly 55% of the seats with (also nearly) 40% of the vote while the NDP got nearly 20% of the vote but on ly 13% of the seats. (The CPC were near "properly represented" with 29% of seats and 31% of the vote.) I'm
      not convinced that any system that rewards weakness (small, fringe or 3rd and 4th place parties) is much good.)

I suspect we'll hear a lot about PR from the NDP but not to much ~ maybe preferential ballots ~ from the Liberals ... maybe a Royal Commission and then  :boring:
 
recceguy said:
I thought they had 53%, or did that number stick around, in my head, after my nightmare last night?  ;D

They were running over 60% in Atlantic Canada, but as the rest of the country came in it brought it down...
 
Dimsum said:
Ok, am I just dense?  How do the Liberals win 184 of 338 seats and a majority, but only have 39.5% of the popular vote  ???

You need to stop thinking of the federal election as one election, it isn't.  What we really have in Canada is 338 different elections, they won the majority of those 338 elections.  The National Vote % is a pointless metric. It's set up this way for a reason though.  Canada is a country of regions, what people want in Toronto is far different than say Acadie-Bathurst, NB.

People really need to become more educated about our political system and why it's set up the way it is.  I was speaking to some of my Mrs friends the other day, a good number of them took political science in school but their level of knowledge concerning the Canadian political system was shockingly lacking, to say the least.  Makes me wonder what the heck they are learning in University.
 
But, but Trudeau can't be a legitimate Prime Minister- he only got 39.5 percent of the vote! That means that 60.5 percent of Canadians voted against him!

(Just pointing out to the Liberal triumphalists, how stupid your argument was when the Conservatives won a majority in 2011 with about the same popular vote).
 
Dimsum said:
Ok, am I just dense?  How do the Liberals win 184 of 338 seats and a majority, but only have 39.5% of the popular vote  ???

The same way the Conservatives won 166 of 308 in 2011, with 39.62.  See ERCs post below.  If you are pushing 40% then you are pretty much guaranteed a majority...

When you complete break it down, it's worse.  50% don't vote, give or take (I think it was around 55% of registered voters this time).  Some PITA numbers for the remaining 50%:
- 12.5% are always conservative
- 12.5% are always liberal
- 7.5% are always NDP
- 2% are always BLOC
- 1.5% are always green

That's 36%, which only leaves 14% of the eligible population which may swing.  They are who the election is about.

I would prefer other than FPTP, and can tell you exactly what I'd like if you want...
 
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