Egypt: News/updates

[CougarKing]

Egyptian forces kill dozens of supporters of ousted Islamist

By Tom Perry and Noah Browning
27 July 2013

CAIRO (Reuters) - Egyptian security forces shot dead dozens of supporters of ousted President Mohamed Mursi on Saturday, witnesses said, days after the army chief called for a popular mandate to wipe out "violence and terrorism".

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Interior Minister Ibrahim said the pro-Mursi sit-ins would "God willing, soon ... be dealt with" based on a decision by a public prosecutor, who is reviewing complaints from local residents unhappy with the huge encampment on their doorstep.

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Witnesses said police first fired rounds of teargas at Brotherhood protesters gathered on a boulevard leading away from the Rabaa mosque, with live shots ringing out soon afterwards.

"There were snipers on the rooftops, I could hear the bullets whizzing past me," said Ahmed el Nashar, 34, a business consultant, choking back his tears.

"Man, people were just dropping."

Dr. Ibtisam Zein, overseeing the Brotherhood morgue, said most of the dead were hit in the head, some between the eyes.

<break>

Haddad said the Brotherhood remained committed to pursuing peaceful protests, despite Saturday's deaths - the second mass shooting of its supporters this month by security forces, who killed 53 people on July 8.

Brotherhood activists at Rabaa said they would not be cowed and warned of worse bloodshed if the security forces did not back down. "We will stay here until we die, one by one," said Ahmed Ali, 24, helping treat casualties at the field hospital.

"We have the examples of Algeria and Syria in our minds. We don't want it to become a civil war. If we take up arms it might become one. This is a religious belief."

Read more at ca.news.yahoo.com ...

 

[sean m]

Here is an interesting article from Foreign Affairs Magazine. The article discusses General Sisi's Islamic beliefs and how he may desire to have a greater Islamic society in Egypt. The article mentions how he is seemingly trying to convince M.B. supporters to back away from the M.B ( Muslim Brotherhood) leadership. The article peculates that he desires a militaristic Islamic state. Seems like the people of Egypt are screwed either way.



http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/139605/robert-springborg/sisis-islamist-agenda-for-egypt

 

[a_majoor]

And a reminder that there are actually many different factions all looking for power or advantage in Egypt as the old structures crumble. While this movement is tiny, how many other groups are out there quietly working to advance their cause?:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/08/01/keeping-an-ember-alive-aims-of-egypts-revolution-not-represented-by-army-or-muslim-brotherhood-third-square-movement-says/

Aims of Egypt’s revolution not represented by army or Muslim Brotherhood, ‘Third Square’ movement says

Sherif Elhelwa, The Media Line | 13/08/01 2:29 PM ET

While many may say that Egypt’s second revolution was on June 30, when protesters ousted democratically elected President Mohamed Morsi, some Egyptians think it’s not over yet.

Concerned over polarization in the country and alienated by both sides in Egypt’s struggle for control, several hundred young Egyptians recently formed what they call the “The Third Square,” a reference to two other Cairo squares where masses from opposing sides have held mass rallies.

Banker Moatassem Gaballah, a Third Square member, said at their recent rally that the group was formed by young Egyptians who felt they were not being represented got together to make their voices heard.

“We didn’t like what we saw in Egypt lately, and we don’t want there to be the false impression that Egypt is only divided into two groups, those who favour the army or who favour the Muslim Brotherhood – we are against both,” he said.

Related
Deadly clashes erupt at funerals for slain supporters of Egypt’s ousted Islamist president
Egypt clashes leave 72 dead, U.S. warns country to pull back from the brink
Military head calls for ‘honourable’ Egyptians to rally at same time as pro-Morsi demonstrations
“They’ve created a space where the original attitude of the revolution expresses itself, where the aims of the revolution are remembered. They’re keeping an ember alive,” Ahdaf Soueif, an Egyptian novelist endorsing the campaign, told the Reuters news agency.

Fellow activist and singer of Egyptian band Eskenderella, Samia Jahin, added, “Maybe there’s only a few of us tonight. But soon you might hear of another group like ours in another square.”

Third Square demonstrators filled most of Sphinx Square in Cairo’s Mohandesin section earlier this week, shouting slogans vilifying the army and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Third Square demonstrators also chanted against the United States and President Barack Obama for not backing the Egyptian people, shouting: “Barack, oh son of the people, shame on you.” Some held banners reading, “Down with all traitors, the military and the Brotherhood,” and “Stop the return of Mubarak’s state,” referring to long-time autocratic leader Hosni Mubarak.


Dozens turned up for the Third Square rally to reject the rule of the army and the Muslim Brotherhood. “We are against the return of the arrests by police and state security, against the return of military abuses,” said one demonstrator.

Mina Maher, a Christian Egyptian, claimed that he has not seen any changes in the country, despite the removal of the Muslim Brotherhood regime. “Do not ask me to support the military or General Abdel Fatah al-Sisi. His decisions caused divisions in the Egyptian streets and we don’t know if this will end or not.”

During Mr. Morsi’s one year of rule, poor management of resources and a sudden fuel crisis led to increasing criticism of the government. “We should put the Muslim Brotherhood on trial [for this] and they should be brought to justice without violation of their human rights,” said Mr. Maher.

He added that he joined the Third Square movement because he didn’t like what the army did by favouring one party over the other, their closing of TV channels and their attacking protesters with live bullets. “We have a peaceful battle with the military. The revolution we know was for a civilian ruler, and not a religious one,” he said.

The movement is growing, as seen by its marches and protests spreading over other Egyptian cities, Group leaders claim they are trying to end the tyranny and fascism practised by Egyptian leaders.

The Media Line

 

[a_majoor]

Egyptians react strongly to what they see as American outreach to the Muslim Brotherhood. Inept messaging like this can only make matters worse in Egypt and the Middle East as a whole, as well as increase the difficulty of American economic, political, military and diplomatic interests in the region:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/msm-blackout-egyptians-enraged-by-u-s-outreach-to-muslim-brotherhood/?print=1

MSM Blackout? Egyptians Enraged by U.S. Outreach to Muslim Brotherhood
Posted By Raymond Ibrahim On August 9, 2013 @ 8:24 am In Egypt,Middle East,US News,World News | 59 Comments

In the eyes of tens of millions of Egyptians, Senators John McCain’s and Lindsey Graham’s recent words and deeds in Egypt — which have the “blessing [1]” of President Obama — have unequivocally proven that U.S. leadership is aligning with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Egyptian media is awash with stories of the growing anger regarding this policy.

A top advisor to Egypt’s Interim President Adly Mansour formally accused [2] McCain of distorting facts to the benefit of the Brotherhood. He dismissed McCain’s recent remarks as “irrational” and “moronic.” Ahmed al-Zind [3], head of the Egyptian Judge Club, has called for the arrest and trial of McCain for “trying to destroy Egypt.” The leader of the youth movement Tamarod [4] (meaning “Rebellion,” against the Brotherhood), which played a major role in mobilizing the June 30 revolution, said: “We reject John McCain and call on the international community to let the [Egyptian] people decide their own fate.”

Secular political commentator Ahmed Musa [5] asserted:

These two men have made more shameless demands than the Brotherhood themselves would dare.

…

[McCain] is not a man elected by the American people to speak on their behalf; today, he speaks on behalf of an armed terrorist organization — the Muslim Brotherhood. …  We had expected [better] from these two men who came to speak with the tongue of the Brotherhood’s leadership, as if they had been recruited as two new leaders of the Brotherhood, which killed, destroyed, and burned in al-Muqattam, and now in Rab‘a al-Adawiya [the main Brotherhood militant camp]. The only thing missing is to see them in Rab‘a, surrounded by armed groups, and in their midst Muhammad Badie [supreme leader of the Brotherhood] and [U.S. Ambassador] Anne Patterson. That’s all that’s missing! Here comes Brother McCain today saying that we must “release the [Brotherhood] prisoners”.

…
Are you not aware that these people are accused of murder? Are you not aware that hundreds of Egyptians have been killed at the hands of the Brotherhood, Morsi, Shatter, Qatatni, Badie, Baltagi — have you forgotten? Did you not read the report on what happened? Or did you just blindly accept your ambassador’s words that it was a coup, that 33 million people did not go out?

What did McCain do and say in Egypt to earn the ire of millions of Egyptians?

Most offensive to Egyptians — and helpful to the Brotherhood’s cause — is McCain’s insistence on calling the June 30 revolution a “military coup.” In reality, the revolution consisted of perhaps thirty million Egyptians taking to the streets to oust the Brotherhood. McCain is either deliberately misconstruing the event, or believes the story as told by Al Jazeera and Ambassador Anne Patterson. In this narrative, at least an equal amount of Egyptians did support Morsi, and the military simply overthrew him against popular will. Al Jazeera has actually broadcast images of the millions of anti-Morsi protesters and identified them as pro-Morsi protesters, disinformation which was quickly adopted by Western media.

Several Al Jazeera correspondents have resigned due to Al Jazeera acting as the Brotherhood’s international mouthpiece.

Fortunately, some American officials have formally rejected the narrative. A new congressional resolution [6] states:

Whereas in recent weeks, an estimated 30,000,000 Egyptians in a majority of Egypt’s 27 provinces gathered to protest the widespread failures of former President Mohamed Morsi and the Government of Egypt and its violations of the most basic rights of all Egyptian citizens, including Egyptian women, minorities, and those publicly dissenting from its views and policies; Whereas the participants in the June 30, 2013, popular protests far outnumbered those involved in the protests and demonstrations of January and February 2011 …

Even the Obama administration has been sensible enough not to call the June 30 revolution a “military coup.” Nevertheless, McCain rejected John Kerry’s statement that “the [Egyptian] military did not take over [7].”

McCain’s designation raises other questions as well. If he considers the ouster of the Brotherhood government to be a military coup, why didn’t he extend that distinction at the fall of Mubarak’s more moderate government, which was also removed by the military in response to popular protests? If McCain’s argument is that Morsi was democratically elected and Mubarak was not, then why was the U.S. giving Egypt billions in aid for decades? Did not this aid legitimize Mubarak’s government no less than Morsi’s?

Further angering Egyptians is McCain’s insistence that all arrested Brotherhood members and other Islamists be released from prison. As Musa said, McCain’s stance does not address that Brotherhood leadership is awaiting trial on serious charges: inciting terrorism, causing the murder of Egyptians, and grand treason by conspiring with foreign powers against Egypt’s interests.

McCain claims he is simply interested in the human rights of the incarcerated Brotherhood members, a statement that is additionally curious. If human rights are at issue, why has McCain and the U.S. administration been ambivalent regarding the fate of Hosni Mubarak? Morsi faces perhaps more serious charges than Mubarak does, yet McCain calls for his release.

McCain’s call to release Brotherhood leadership validates the widespread belief in Egypt that America is a fellow conspirator with the Brotherhood. Egyptians believe the U.S. fears that Morsi and others, if tried, would reveal the nature of their cozy relationship with the U.S. government. This is believed to mean any number of ugly revelations — treasonous ties and conspiracies, the exchange of billions of dollars, and Sinai issues. Hence, McCain wants them freed. This belief seems all the more reasonable to Egyptians considering that in 2011, McCain said of the Muslim Brotherhood [8]:

I think they are a radical group that first of all supports Sharia law; that in itself is anti-democratic — at least as far as women are concerned. They have been involved with other terrorist organizations and I believe that they should be specifically excluded from any transition government.

Recently, McCain personally visited [9] Khairat al-Shater, the multi-millionaire deputy chief of the Brotherhood who is currently incarcerated on charges of treason and terrorism. Interestingly, Shatter was not even a member of Morsi’s government. Why is McCain visiting a civilian? Shater’s status as a major figure in the largest Islamist organization in the world is leading Egyptians to connect the dots. Even Shater himself, perhaps understanding the awful visuals [10], asked to visit “the legitimate president” Morsi as well.

U.S. media has said little aboutthe administration’s ties to al-Shater, however these ties are well-known among Egyptians: ambassador Anne Patterson was frequently seen going to [11] Shater’s residence.

Egyptian media has also pointed out [12] that McCain repeatedly dodged critical questions by Egyptian journalists at a press conference. When asked about the fact that the Brotherhood in Rab‘a was armed to the teeth, and — with the aid of al-Qaeda — was killing and terrorizing innocent Egyptians, McCain ignored the question. (Similarly, McCain has not answered as to why he is supports the jihadist rebellion in Syria, which has seen the slaughter and displacement of thousands of Christians, beheadings [13], and “legitimized rapes [13]” by foreign jihadis. McCain is in favor of arming [14] them.)

Many Egyptians are also wondering why McCain — as well as the Obama administration — is pushing for elections as soon as possible.  Such a rush contributed to the empowerment of the Brotherhood in the first place: once the long-entrenched Mubarak was removed from power, the only party that was organized and ready to campaign was the Brotherhood. Secular Egyptian parties wanted to postpone the 2012 elections in order to mobilize their campaigns, but the U.S. was adamant that Egypt hold elections immediately. When the military wished to perform a recount, citing irregularities in the elections — including widespread allegations of voter fraud by the Brotherhood — Hillary Clinton chastised them and called for a winner to be declared as soon as possible. This turned out to be Morsi, by a tiny margin — if that [15].

McCain’s remarks and actions in Egypt have further confirmed the popular narrative — as memorably displayed by countless anti-Brotherhood and anti-Obama placards raised during the June 30 revolution — that U.S. leadership is aligned with the Brotherhood, and thus ultimately a supporter of terrorism [16]. Americans can no longer afford to ignore this serious accusation with broad implications.

Article printed from PJ Media: http://pjmedia.com

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/blog/msm-blackout-egyptians-enraged-by-u-s-outreach-to-muslim-brotherhood/

URLs in this post:

[1] blessing: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/06/exclusive-john-mccain-on-his-meeting-with-the-muslim-brotherhood-in-cairo.html
[2] accused: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/06/mccain-graham-egypt_n_3716270.html
[3] Ahmed al-Zind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4jVnejnxNM
[4] Tamarod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhqmx2-ZSGg
[5] Ahmed Musa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiswhQwlxHs
[6] new congressional resolution: http://www.copticsolidarity.org/images/pdf/HR329.pdf
[7] the [Egyptian] military did not take over: http://swampland.time.com/2013/08/02/oops-john-kerry-gaffes-washington-backpedals/
[8] said of the Muslim Brotherhood: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/john-mccain-on-the-dangers-of-the-muslim-brotherhood-they-should-be-excluded-from-any-transition-government-a-743819.html
[9] visited: http://www.youm7.com/News.asp?NewsID=1193467
[10] the awful visuals: http://beta.masrawy.com/News/details/2013/8/5/39630/%D8%AD%D8%B4%D9%85%D8%AA-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B4%D8%A7%D8%B7%D8%B1-%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A8-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%88%D9%81%D8%AF-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D9%85%D8%B1%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AA%D9%81%D8%A7
[11] going to: http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/egyptian-politician-calls-u-s-ambassador-patterson-member-of-muslim-brotherhood-sleeper-cell/
[12] pointed out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bTBPDdb5c
[13] beheadings: http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/new-fatwa-permits-rape-of-non-sunni-women-in-syria/
[14] McCain is in favor of arming: http://www.religiousfreedomcoalition.org/2013/06/03/rand-paul-slams-mccains-support-of-al-qaeda-in-syria/
[15] if that: http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/did-the-muslim-brotherhood-really-win-egypts-presidency/
[16] a supporter of terrorism: http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/obama-supports-terrorism-large-banner-in-tahrir-square/

 

[OldSolduer]

Egypt will have to sort itself out. We - North America - best stay away from this mess.

 

[cupper]

Egypt will have to sort itself out. We - North America - best stay away from this mess.

Mess indeed. Got back to my hotel this afternoon only to find out that the Egyptian Forces have moved on the protest camps, and now clashes are happening all over the country. It was only a matter of time before it started, and now it has gone full force.

Al Baradai has resigned in protest to the moves by the Army, saying that he pushed for other measures to get the protesters under control, to no avail.

Maybe I should look at opening a marshmallow stand franchise over there, because it seems things will be burning for a while. 'Smores anyone?

 

[a_majoor]

A better way of understanding this is this is how the Egyptians are solving an Egyptian problem. US "diplomacy" is now seen as essentially irrelevant, and Barrack Obama or John Kerry shooting their mouths off simply infuriates both (or more) sides of the conflict without providing any positive benefits to either the faction or the US:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/08/15/al-sisis-hammer-obamas-nine-iron/

Al-Sisi’s Hammer, Obama’s Nine-Iron?

Adam Garfinkle

This is a guest post by Adam Garfinkle, editor of the American Interest. It is cross-posted from his blog elsewhere on this site. Be sure to bookmark his page!

What happened in Egypt yesterday and is continuing to happen today is sad, disheartening and about as completely unsurprising as any such event can be. In Tuesday’s short post I referred in passing to “the impending street clashes in Cairo.” In my August 2 post I specified the epicenter of the violence to come, the Rabaa al-Adaweya mosque compound, and explained why it was coming:


The Egyptian military knows what it’s doing, or at least it thinks it does. It thinks that by showing strength at this early stage in what is bound to be a protracted conflict within Egyptian society, it reduces the likelihood of a civil war and massive domestic violence. Al-Sisi and company believe that if they seem weak now in the face of protests, it will encourage the Brotherhood and the Al-Nour Party salafis to take the next steps and organize for an insurgency.

In others words, al-Sisi and associates believe in the “strong horse” theory of political legitimacy, and they are now in the process of applying that theory to Egyptian realities. Might doesn’t necessarily make right—that’s not at all how Islamic jurisprudence on such matters reads—but it’s good enough for government work failing other, gentler institutional alternatives. The Middle East lacks the warm, fuzzy affection for the underdog that many Americans take to be second nature. The dominant view of what is still a patriarchal, hierarchical and still clingingly pre-modern set of Muslim Middle Eastern societies is that the weak deserve whatever depredations they suffer. It’s a kind of ur-Social Darwinism that has been at work for many centuries before Darwin himself ever saw light of day.

As I also said before, I think Egypt’s military leaders are right about this. And I suspect they recognized that the longer they waited to crack down on the Muslim Brotherhood encampments the better prepared the MB would be to resist. And they have resisted, and are still doing so. Several score policemen are dead among the many hundreds of MB protestors in Cairo and around the country. So are hundreds of mostly innocent Copts, who have no recourse but to be on the wrong side of the Brotherhood’s murderous intolerance. Indeed, spending energy and resources to kill Coptic civilians and burn down their churches while Muslim police are bearing down on you with shotguns furnishes about the best example there can be of how MB fanaticism completely swamps its capacity for rational planning of any kind.

But I also said (in my July 4 post, just after the coup) that:


. . . if the Army tries to completely exclude the MB from the nation’s future political configuration, it is bound to sire a new generation of Islamist terrorists. Nothing about General al-Sisi suggests he is that foolish, however. So in a sense the limits of action within the ambit of Army-MB relations remain intact, at least in some form. But who knows? Making big mistakes is the one hallmark that, whatever their other differences, unifies recent Egyptian leaders.

Thus the question of the moment: Is al-Sisi now proving that he is “that foolish”?

Not necessarily. I still think that what we are seeing in Egypt is a kind of deck-clearing phase. I still think a new political modus vivendi between the military and Egypt’s variety of Islamists is possible and likely, once certain red lines are re-established. And I even still think the Egyptian military can and ultimately will play the role of Praetorian guard over the emergence of a more vital civil society, political pluralism and maybe, one day still far off, even something we in the West recognize as democracy—and I think that because of the significant liberalizing social changes in Egypt over the past generation or two that are deep, real and irreversible. But first the generals have to make the MB and the salafis to their “right” (these European terms limp badly applied to Egypt, admittedly) say “uncle.” That may take a few weeks, or months, it now seems—and of course all this is happening in the broader context of a near completely collapsed economy. But the odds are that the military will have its way; the MB will say “uncle.”

That said, if General al-Sisi and company insist on making huge, generative mistakes, if they overdo it so much as to pull down the tent on themselves as well as their enemies, all bets are off. Things are not yet out of hand, but they could be.

Consider that the development of liberal democracy in the West and elsewhere has been a complex, long-running and varied phenomenon. As my TAI colleague Frank Fukuyama has explained, it involves creating a competent post-patrimonial state (which Egypt lacks), genuine rule of law (which Egypt also lacks) and either procedural or substantive accountability (both of which Egypt now lacks…..so much, then, for those who were so quick to pronounce Egypt not only ready for democracy but actually a democracy just a few short years ago).

We can see in past developments leading to liberal democracy the dialectical relationships among technological changes, social mobilization, economic specialization and the sometimes derivative, sometimes independent power of political ideas. But what we also see in more cases than not is the outsized and unpredictable role of both happenstance and exotic personalities. Some places become democratic that shouldn’t, according to the lights of social science, and some don’t that should. At times like these analysts can therefore know oodles of history and social science and have ample reservoirs of area- and country expertise and still end up totally wrong because some jerk simply screws up. We’ll know pretty soon if al-Sisi deserves the description. The technical term for this is the “monkey-in-the-machine-room corollary” of political development.

* * *

Speaking of screwing up (or not), the New York Times continues its fall out of love with Barack Obama’s foreign and national security policies. The powers-that-be at the Gray Lady are evidently not thrilled with the President’s recent full-throated and quite artful defense of several NSA programs, and the way they describe the President today suggests an animus that has by now sunk down well below the waist. Get a load of this from Mark Landler and the usually even-tempered Michael Gordon:


Secretary of State John Kerry said the violence in Cairo was “deplorable” and “ran counter to Egyptian aspirations for peace, inclusion and genuine democracy”. . . . But Mr. Kerry announced no punitive measures, while President Obama, vacationing here on Martha’s Vineyard, had no public reaction. . . . On Wednesday morning, Mr. Obama was briefed on the situation by his national security adviser, Susan E. Rice. But he appeared determined not to allow events in Egypt to interrupt a day that, besides golf, included cocktails at the home of a major political donor, Brian Roberts.

Wow. Maybe Barack Obama really is Dwight David Eisenhower after all!

But I beg to differ with the Times’ insinuations—or at least one of them. The President is right not to allow himself and U.S. foreign policy to be, in effect, taken hostage by events over which we have little to no hope of control. Running one’s diplomatic mouth from the Oval Office (or Martha’s Vineyard…..whatever) while otherwise frozen in place is generally not a good idea. While Secretary Kerry is wringing his hands in Washington, al-Sisi is wringing necks in Egypt, and no amount of the former is going to stop the latter when existential issues are deemed to be at stake. So we are told, too, that Chuck Hagel, also on vacation, has spoken to al-Sisi more than a dozen times in private telephone conversations since July 3. That’s nice. (Besides, as Kerry and Hagel have to know, the Saudis, Qataris and other Gulf regimes are paying the Egyptian generals a lot more money to do what they are doing than the United States is sort of half-credibly threatening to withhold if they don’t.)

There is, however, one speck of plain truth in the Times’ account. The day some weeks ago when the AP and IRS scandals were front-page news, the President made brief comments to the White House press corps about them before helicoptering off to—where?—a major fundraiser on Wall Street. And here we go again: Egypt bleeds and POTUS cares more about straightening out his nine-iron shots and having cocktails with Brian Roberts, the very wealthy CEO of Comcast. Hey, I never said the President was doing the right thing for the right reasons.

But unlike the Times, I don’t trivialize the President’s priorities. His legacy, in his own words, is to win the House for the Democrats in the coming mid-term election. That’s what he cares about. He’s told us as much, and by now we had best be believing it. You may like it or not, but at least the man can do something about achieving that goal. There is very little he can do about the present state of political play in Egypt—very little indeed.

 

[OldSolduer]

Mess indeed.

Maybe I should look at opening a marshmallow stand franchise over there, because it seems things will be burning for a while. 'Smores anyone?

How about a Tim's on the Island of Love?

 

[Jed]

A better way of understanding this is this is how the Egyptians are solving an Egyptian problem. US "diplomacy" is now seen as essentially irrelevant, and Barrack Obama or John Kerry shooting their mouths off simply infuriates both (or more) sides of the conflict without providing any positive benefits to either the faction or the US:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/08/15/al-sisis-hammer-obamas-nine-iron/

It also infuriates the folks back in the USA who are paying attention to the news. (but not the sheeple)

 

[tomahawk6]

The Egyptian security forces are at war with the islamists in the Sinai.Recently 24 off duty police were murdered between Rafah to El Arish.A crackdown in the Sinai is in the interest of the Egyptian military and Israel.

 

[GAP]

The US and Europe are quickly becoming irrelevant by trying to force "their" change in the ME.

Gulf nations split with West to back Egyptian military
Article Link
By Jamie Dettmer August 20, 2013 FoxNews.com

Efforts by the West to pressure Egypt’s new government to end its crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood could be moot thanks to Saudi Arabia’s oil money – and whole-hearted backing of the military.

While the West calls for peace in Cairo, the Saudis are supporting Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who led the ouster of Mohamed Morsi. The Kingdom has pledged to make up for any loss in foreign aid resulting from the military’s brutal crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood.

On Monday, the country’s foreign minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal issued a hard-hitting statement via the Saudi Press Agency pushing back on the West.

“To those who have announced they are cutting their aid to Egypt, or threatening to do that, (we say that) Arab and Muslim nations are rich and will not hesitate to help Egypt,” said Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al-Faisal, in a statement to the Saudi Press Agency. “Arab states will never accept manipulation of their fates or tampering with their security and stability by the international community.”

The European Union is considering whether to halt $6 billion in aid to Egypt’s new government, and in Washington, pressure continued to mount on the Obama administration to consider further steps. Several lawmakers said Obama’s decision last week to cancel planned joint military exercises with Egypt and to delay delivery of four F-16 fighter jets doesn’t go far enough.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday suggested halting previously approved arms shipments to Egypt as part of a coordinated European response. Her development minister today told German radio that Berlin will make “no further pledges this year” of aid to Egypt, and that Germany “won’t negotiate this year” any debt relief for the country.

Some analysts believe the Arab Spring and its aftermath is increasingly exposing an acrimonious division between the Gulf countries and the West over the future of the Middle East, one that is likely to worsen and threaten the ties linking the West and the royal families of the region.

The split between the Saudis and the West over Egypt is not only underscoring policy differences over the Muslim Brotherhood, they say, but is highlighting a growing divergence of interests between Washington and the European capitals and Riyadh when it comes to political reform in the region.
More on link

 

[tomahawk6]

Egyptian security forces have arrested the leader of the MB,after the killing of 24 police officers in the Sinai.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/25-egyptian-police-recruits-gunned-down-by-militants-in-sinai-mubarak-could-be-released/2013/08/19/dc77447e-08bf-11e3-8974-f97ab3b3c677_story.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

A few updates:

1)  Oopsie - a Canadian doc and a Canadian filmmaker/academic were nabbed in Egypt on their way to Gaza.  What Canada's saying (1): 

The Honourable Lynne Yelich, Minister of State (Foreign Affairs and Consular), today issued the following statement:

“The Government of Canada is very concerned that two Canadian citizens have been arrested in Egypt.

“I can confirm that Canadian consular officials have visited the two Canadians and have been in contact with their families.

“This afternoon, I spoke with a senior Egyptian official to request confirmation of the nature of the charges and call for all evidence against the two Canadians be released. Canadian officials are also in contact with local authorities to receive more information on the nature of these charges.

“Canada firmly believes that implementing a transparent, democratic system that respects the voices of all Egyptians, including members of civil society and religious minorities, is the best way to restore calm and give all Egyptians a stake in the future stability and prosperity of their country. The two parties must immediately sit down together, reconcile their differences and work tirelessly to halt this deadly standoff. We urge all Egyptians to show restraint and resolve in the coming days ....

Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada Info-machine, 18 Aug 13

2)  More of What Canada's Saying ....

• "Canada Deeply Concerned by Deadly Violence in Egypt"
• "Canada Concerned by Ongoing Violence Against Christians in Egypt"

3)  What the Liberal Party Info-machine's saying:

Liberal Foreign Affairs critic Dominic LeBlanc made the following statement today on the eruption of violence in Egypt:

“We are deeply concerned by the violence currently affecting areas of Cairo, including the recent attacks on religious institutions. Attacks of this nature are unacceptable and we call on the Egyptian authorities to protect the rights and security of all its citizens.

During this time of crisis, we urge all sides to remain calm and to seek meaningful ways to bring an end to the violence. It is urgent that a clear roadmap for the return to democracy be set out and fairly implemented. Dialogue, not confrontation and hostility, is the path to peace and prosperity in Egypt ....

 

[sean m]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23776013

This article seems to indicatevthat there is a chance Mubarak could leave prison. Perhaps it is safe to assume that the masses on the street would have even more cause to revolt.

It would be interesting to find out what the Egyptian military's strategic objectives are for the future, especially woth the violence that is occuring? Does anyone here believe that the Egyptian military expects things to go back to normal.

 

[tamouh]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23776013

This article seems to indicatevthat there is a chance Mubarak could leave prison. Perhaps it is safe to assume that the masses on the street would have even more cause to revolt.

It would be interesting to find out what the Egyptian military's strategic objectives are for the future, especially woth the violence that is occuring? Does anyone here believe that the Egyptian military expects things to go back to normal.

I am not sure anyone knows what the Egyptian army is doing. I have to believe the Egyptian military branch itself doesn't know what it is trying to do! However, I know for a fact that the Saudis are in full support of Gen. Sissi regardless of what the US and other nations say. I also know that the Egyptian army had been planning for this instant since the ouster of Mubarak over two years ago.

Some speculate that the chaos in Sinai peninsula may cause the West, Israel to intervene in the name of protecting the Suez Canal.

What I find ironic is the Saudi support for Egypt's military today considering the Egyptians have fought the Saudis during the Yemeni Civil War in late 1960s.

 

[Inquisitor]

Stand by - we have a breaking report from our "We can't make this S*it" up editor

Egypt Aid Suspension Recommended By Obama's National Security Aides

portion reproduced under the fair use provision of the copyright act from Huffington post

"Assistance that is used to pay American companies that sell Egypt military equipment would be suspended if Obama accepts the recommendation but those firms would be compensated with so-called "wind up" payments that could amount to hundreds of millions of dollars, according to the officials.
The White House and State Department declined to comment on the recommendation, but congressional aides said national security adviser Susan Rice has outlined the possible strategy in closed-door consultations with lawmakers.

Any decision on suspending assistance to Egypt would follow months of internal deliberation over how to respond to Morsi's ouster during which the administration has struggled to enunciate a coherent policy.
[size=14pt]The administration determined that it was not in the U.S. national interest to determine whether a coup had taken place, as such a designation would have required it to suspend all but humanitarian assistance to Egypt."  [/size]

Comment: This is the sort of report that seems a natural for Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert

Note to self

 

[Inquisitor]

sorry the previous looks so bad.

I'm pretty cynical and it shocked me, hit post to soon.

So much for "Miltary coup" - cut off aid.

The points about months to make decisions does not bode well.

 

[a_majoor]

Report on the CTV News network "ticker" running under the main program of Egyptian tanks and helicopter gunships being used in the Northern Sinai against MB strongholds. We now have a secular war against Islamic extremeists running in Egypt, while the Sunni/Shia civil wars grow in strength in Syria (and threaten to spill out to surrounding countries).

The Saudis are in an interesting position. On the one hand they back the secular authorities in Egypt against the Muslim Brotherhoods, yet at the same time they are supplying financial support (along with many of the Gulf States) to similar radical groups in their fight against Syria, Hezbollah and Iran. There is a danger in trying to play too many sides against each other.

 

[cupper]

Michele Bachmann and her bat crap crazy congressional partners Louis Gohmert and Steve King seemed not to get the talking points memo on the current political situation in Egypt.

I almost posted this under dumbest thing thread.  :facepalm:

Here’s Michele Bachmann thanking the Egyptian military for the coup and crackdowns

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/heres-michele-bachmann-thanking-the-egyptian-military-for-the-coup-and-crackdowns/

Three U.S. lawmakers who have generated controversy for their statements about Islam and Muslim Americans released a video Saturday praising the Egyptian military and thanking it for staging the July 3 and subsequent crackdowns against their “common enemy,” the Muslim Brotherhood. The video, apparently taken a few hours after meeting with coup leader General Abdel Fatah el-Sissi in Cairo, features Rep. Michele Bachmann reading a statement to the camera. She’s flanked by Reps. Steve King and Louie Gohmert.

The video, posted below, is a doozy. Bachmann, presumably supported by King and Gohmert, offers fulsome praise for the coup and the military-led government’s subsequent actions, describing its crackdowns against sit-ins and demonstrations as “the front lines” in “the war on terrorism.” She described the Muslim Brotherhood as a common enemy and a “great evil,” implying that it had been responsible for the attacks against the U.S. on Sept. 11, 2001. King and Gohmert offered similar but more tempered remarks.

“Together, our country, the United States and Egypt have dealt with the same enemy. It’s a common enemy,” Bachmann said, apparently conflating Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, a  political organization that renounced violence decades ago and has millions of supporters in the country, with extremist terrorists. “It’s an enemy called terrorism. Now the people of Egypt have spoken.”

Bachmann’s remarks appeared deeply consistent with Egyptian state propaganda that has portrayed the Muslim Brotherhood as a secret terrorist organization and an internal enemy. These claims have not been backed up elsewhere; civilians killed in crackdowns such as the Aug. 14 attack on a Rabaa al-Awadiya sit-in, which left over 500 dead, appear to have been almost uniformly unarmed.

“I want to assure the people of Egypt that I, as a member of Congress, will stand strong in support of continuing military support, United States support financially, to stand for the military in Egypt,” she said. “We know that you have been a partner. You’ve been a partner in the war on terrorism. You’ve acted bravely here on the front lines.”

She added, “Many of you have asked, Do we understand who the enemy is? We can speak for ourselves: We do. We have seen the threat that the Muslim Brotherhood has posed, here, for the people of Egypt. We’ve seen the threat that the Muslim Brotherhood posed around the world. We stand against this great evil. We remember who caused nine-one-one in America.” Later, in response to a question, Bachmann reiterated: “We don’t have a choice. They must be defeated.”

King and Gohmert offered unconditional praise as well, albeit in more measured tones. King congratulated anti-Morsi Egyptians on “standing up for liberty, standing up for freedom” in supporting the July 3 coup. He added, “We stand against the Muslim Brotherhood. The American people do not support the Muslim Brotherhood, we oppose all forms of terror and terrorism.” Gohmert compared el-Sissi to George Washington and said the “bloodthirsty Muslim Brothers” want to “destabilize things” and seek “that large caliphate.” (He also said that Egyptian Jews participated in the anti-Morsi movements, which I would find surprising.)

Just as jarring as the trio’s apparent endorsement of the coup and crackdowns that killed hundreds is their apparent optimism about what this means for the country’s future. While many were skeptical of Morsi, an Islamist who governed poorly and failed the economy, military rule has seen widespread state violence that has killed hundreds of civilians and a rapid rollback of the country’s meager democratic advances. Some small fraction of Egypt-watchers did hold cautious optimism in the days immediately after the coup. But virtually none see the past two months as anything short of a complete disaster, with not just the Egyptian state but society badly broken in ways that could take years to fix.

I just don’t know who Bachmann, King and Gohmert are talking to who would characterize what’s happened in Egypt with the glowing terms and unmitigated praise they’ve used. Bachmann promised “more freedom, more prosperity and more jobs” were coming. Gohmert exclaimed, “This is a good time.”

http://youtu.be/T0iTiCHjiNs

Apparently she is positioning herself for a run at the Egyptian Presidency. >

 

[a_majoor]

Frankly, the current situation in Egypt, while not ideal, is the "least worst choice".

Certainly having radicals like the Muslim Brotherhoods in power would not have been in the best interests of anyone in the region, and by extension, the rest of the Global community. You can read for yourself upthread how Saudi Arabia and the various Gulf States felt about the Muslim Brotherhood being in power, for example. How long this situation will obtain is anyones guess, and given the general paralysis of the current US Administration, it will be up to the Egyptian Army (as the only other fully organized and functional player) to attempt to keep Egypt afloat while dealing with a violent internal insurrection.