Duceppe threatens to topple Harper government over Afghanistan

[kilekaldar]

This was my responce to the article, I posted it in the article forum on the G&M.

Perhaps the Honourable Member Giles Duceppe would care to explain to us how we are suppose to focus on rebuilding while we are being bombed, shot at, rocketed and mortared?
The politicians back home keep saying how we should focus more on rebuilding instead of combat, and that might sound good in the media, but how do they propose we do this exactly? How would this work on the ground in Kandahar province? Or do they suggest we withdraw from the province and let it fall to the Taliban? Withdraw to where, the safer areas where the Germans, Italians, Spanish, and French have taken refuge? How 'safe' will these areas be and for how long if we stop fighting the Taliban in the south? What do they consider as "focus on rebuilding" when our main effort for the past few months has been the construction of roadways through isolated areas, does this not fit their definition?
I understand these are military questions, but since the Bloc, the NDP, and now the Liberals(who sent us here) seem to be so critical of how we do things here and talk like they have a better way, I would like to hear what exactly they want us to do.
That or they could keep their noses out of military matters, let us do our jobs and not use the deaths of Canadian soldiers for domestic political ends. Nothing good has ever come of politicians meddling and micromanaging a war and military decisions, as they are singularly unqualified for the task.
Many of us here frankly believe that the statements on this topic made by certain parties in Canada is exclusively geared towards domestic politics and the media, and has no bearing on the day to day reality of Kandahar or Afghanistan as a whole.

 

[Good2Golf]

This was my responce to the article, I posted it in the article forum on the G&M.

Perhaps the Honourable Member Giles Duceppe would care to explain to us how we are suppose to focus on rebuilding while we are being bombed, shot at, rocketed and mortared?
The politicians back home keep saying how we should focus more on rebuilding instead of combat, and that might sound good in the media, but how do they propose we do this exactly? How would this work on the ground in Kandahar province? Or do they suggest we withdraw from the province and let it fall to the Taliban? Withdraw to where, the safer areas where the Germans, Italians, Spanish, and French have taken refuge? How 'safe' will these areas be and for how long if we stop fighting the Taliban in the south? What do they consider as "focus on rebuilding" when our main effort for the past few months has been the construction of roadways through isolated areas, does this not fit their definition?
I understand these are military questions, but since the Bloc, the NDP, and now the Liberals(who sent us here) seem to be so critical of how we do things here and talk like they have a better way, I would like to hear what exactly they want us to do.
That or they could keep their noses out of military matters, let us do our jobs and not use the deaths of Canadian soldiers for domestic political ends. Nothing good has ever come of politicians meddling and micromanaging a war and military decisions, as they are singularly unqualified for the task.
Many of us here frankly believe that the statements on this topic made by certain parties in Canada is exclusively geared towards domestic politics and the media, and has no bearing on the day to day reality of Kandahar or Afghanistan as a whole.

+1

Exactly.

G2G

 

[Caleix]

I am not going to comment on tactics and how our troops are deployed in Afghanistan, because I have yet to go over and see what they put up with and experience, but what I want to know is if the bloc leader has even stepped one foot on Afghan soil....and if so does that automatically make him the great wise and mighty Duceppe of military tactics?!

Caleix

 

[nowhere_man]

BC+Alberta = 64 seats
Quebec = 75 seats
You have to remember that the House of commons has a max capacity of about 311 seats (308 now)

Well I'm in computer class and I'm bored so i went on stats Can and found that in 2001 Alberta had about 3 million people and and B.C. about 4 million. and Quebec has.....(insert drum roll)  7,237,479 so maybe 7,500,000 now. so those 2 provinces combined should roughly be the same as Quebec (but we all know it never will). Oh yea what are they going to do when they have 311 seats and they need #312?

 

[foerestedwarrior]

I am not going to comment on tactics and how our troops are deployed in Afghanistan, because I have yet to go over and see what they put up with and experience, but what I want to know is if the bloc leader has even stepped one foot on Afghan soil....and if so does that automatically make him the great wise and mighty Duceppe of military tactics?!

Caleix

He hasnt even visited the troops he is trying to protect by this.....It is a convienient timing fo this, force the vote just before the vandoo's are to go.

 

[George Wallace]

Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe should follow his own advice.  We should equate any withdrawal of Canadian troops fighting for Freedom of Afghanistan's citizens and the safety of Canadians to the withdrawal of the Bloc Québécois Party from Parliament and their fighting for the Rights of the Québécois.  If he wants us to spend more on 'reconstruction' in Afghanistan, then surely he must support the election of parliamentarians who are more interested in the building of a strong Canada, not the destruction of it.

 

[infuntry_boi]

He hasn't even visited the troops he is trying to protect by this.....It is a convenient timing for this, force the vote just before the vandoo's are to go.

[joke] I have a solution! make every member of Parliament serve a tour of duty in the CF! (Wait! They probably wouldn't get past the fitness req.  ;D) [/joke]

But in all honesty, if politicians would focus on the issue instead of using the issue to gain seats, then this country (   ) might actually start working.

 

[career_radio-checker]

Well I'm in computer class and I'm bored so i went on stats Can and found that in 2001 Alberta had about 3 million people and and B.C. about 4 million. and Quebec has.....(insert drum roll)  7,237,479 so maybe 7,500,000 now. so those 2 provinces combined should roughly be the same as Quebec (but we all know it never will). Oh yea what are they going to do when they have 311 seats and they need #312?

Increase the constituency boundaries to encompass about 200 000 citizens (now varying from 90 000 to 150 000).

 

[Armymedic]

Bring the motion, Mr Duceppes, bring it.

And then lose all credability when the facts come out. 

Oh wait...the Blocs defence critic is on Newsworld....this should be good.

From him "We have briefings from the military who say they are doing reconstruction, but what international NGO's tell us is different"

"If the current government does not listen to us about the reconstruction, then we will have no choice to bring forward a nonconfidence vote and force another election"

Sounds more like a threat for a bargaining position then anything else.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Increase the constituency boundaries to encompass about 200 000 citizens (now varying from 90 000 25,000 to 150 000).

That’s a great idea, indeed a vital step in wrenching the Canadian Constitution out of the 19th century.  Imagine: equality! representation by population! How will we ever survive the shock!?!

There are two slight problems, both constitutional and both in the part of the Constitution which requires unanimity for amendment:

1. Prince Edward Island (pop 135,000) is entitled to four senators – vice six for Alberta (pop 3,000,000) which is entitled to six; and

2. No province may have fewer MPs than it has senators.

Without a unanimous constitutional amendment, to bring something better than the sham democracy to Canada – wherein a vote in Cardigan PEI is ‘worth’ three or four times as much as a vote in Metro Toronto or Calgary, the only sensible alternative is to 'grow' the House of Commons to about 1,000 seats: one for every 35,000 residents.  That means (about):  85 MPs from Alberta, 200 from Québec, 4 from PEI and a whopping 315 MPs from Ontario!

 

[career_radio-checker]

You just had to burst my bubble didn't you Ed? 
As for increasing the House size, I'm categorically against that. I am quite the political animal but I also care for the environment. If we let the MP population grow exponentially like you suggest then we risk endangering the other species that live in and around the Ottawa habitat. Before you know it, our attempts to improve democratic environment will have been overshadowed by the flood of pesky MPs who will begin taking the best corner offices, blocking the airwaves with their blackberry traffic, and stealing all the cabs in the downtown area. There won't be enough natural resources in this beautiful habitat support other species like the lobbyist, layers or the rare protester. Of course we could deal with the problem with trap and relocation programs or even have an open season where hunters are allowed a 2 or 3 MP maximum per year. But that would cost millions of dollars and I would rather we realize a boondoggle before it happens. Sorry Ed I can't support you on your proposition.  ^-^

 

[Link]

As someone relatively new to the army, and hoping to get a combat tour, the recent political news is very disheartening.  If the NDP, Bloc and Liberals get their way, I will never see combat, be relegated to garrison, have to do peacekeeping tours where I can't engage those who are firing at me, and so on.  It seems as though when the future of the CF is looking up, you get the bleeding hearts and ehem *p#ssies* bringing it back down.  I want to be able to say that I used my skills and trade effectively, that I did what I was trained to do.  I'm not saying that peacekeeping is a waste of time, or that those of you that have been peacekeepers did nothing, because I respect you for the job that you did, also I'm not a blood thirsty maniac either, but I want to be part of the fast paced operations tempo as well, and I want to say that I was there and that I did too.  Sorry if this is in the wrong place, but I know this is how not only myself but many of the other new soldiers feel about the current situation.

Thanks,

Link

 

[George Wallace]

A true Pessimist!

 

[Link]

I'm not a pessimist, I'm commenting on how it looks, there is so much pressure right now to end the mission in a'stan. I don't want to miss out.

 

[Old Sweat]

NDP Joe Cromartin was a guest on 'The Lunch Bunch" on CFRA radio in Ottawa today. Among other gems he dropped were:

a. The NDP has not yet decided on whether or not they would support the BQ motion as they have not yet seen it.

b. When pressed, he agreed that most of Afghanistan is secure and peaceful, and that the Canadians are defeating the Taliban in our area of operations.

c. He claimed that success would only lead to defeat as the Taliban would be inspired to continue to resist.

As the Bloc apparently would not introduce their motion until February, this thread should be mega pages long by then. More important, the situation in country and the political situation in Canada may be radically different by then. Hang onto your hats.

 

[George Wallace]

What little I did catch of that program, Joe Comartin sounded like a fish out of water by the end of it.  I was also very surprise at the reaction that he raised in the other two hosts.  Comartin lost quite a bit of credibility with his waffling.  I think he will now be working overtime to find some sort of platform that is defendable, if this should keep up.

 

[Journeyman]

NDP agrees that "most of Afghanistan is secure and peaceful, and that the Canadians are defeating the Taliban in our area of operations"??

WHAT?! Who snuck some oxygen into the causus chambers? Can we assume that the NDP's Honourable Member from Windsor-Tecumseh is now being drummed out the party?

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

c. He claimed that success would only lead to defeat as the Taliban would be inspired to continue to resist.

So, memme get this straight:  success leads to failure?  ???

 

[Kirkhill]

So, memme get this straight:  success leads to failure?  ???

Global cooling begat Global warming begat Climate Change.....
Success leads to Failure

Having your cake and eating it too.

Winston Smith, where are you?

 

[schart28]

CBC News: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/12/12/duceppe-afghanistan.html?ref=rss

Prime Minister Stephen Harper attacked the Bloc Québécois Tuesday, calling its threat to topple the government over Afghanistan nothing more than political opportunism.


Harper accuses Bloc of 'playing politics' on backs of soldiers
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 | 4:00 PM ET
CBC News
Prime Minister Stephen Harper attacked the Bloc Québécois Tuesday, calling its threat to topple the government over Afghanistan nothing more than political opportunism.

Harper directed most of his criticism squarely at Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe.

"He's just playing politics on the backs of our soldiers," Harper said in French during question period in the House of Commons.
"The only problem here is the political opportunism of the leader of the Bloc."

Harper was responding to Duceppe's announcement Monday that the Bloc might table a no-confidence motion if the mission in Afghanistan isn't rapidly and profoundly altered.
The Bloc wants to see resources put into reconstruction, not fighting.


On Tuesday, Duceppe reiterated his demand for change. He said Harper has an us-versus-them world view that is doomed to fail in Afghanistan.
"He sees everything in black and white," Duceppe said. "Will he stop using these soldiers and put an end to his ideological ideas?"
Harper acknowledged the mission in Afghanistan is very dangerous, leaving Canadian soldiers dead.
"But we have to help," he said.

After question period, Duceppe said he cannot discuss what his party will do if Harper and the Conservative government refuse the request to change the Afghanistan mission.
"I never discuss strategy," Duceppe said. "I said this is where we stand and if it comes in a question of confidence, we won't be scared in having an election on that if an election is needed."

He said he is waiting to see what other parties have to say on the issue.
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has said he would wait to see a no-confidence motion before making a decision. He has criticized the Afghanistan mission in the past for many of the same reasons as Duceppe.

NDP Leader Jack Layton appears poised to support a no-confidence motion. He said earlier that he never had confidence in Harper's approach in Afghanistan.
Forty-four Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed since the Afghan mission began in 2002. Most deaths occurred this year.
Canada has more than 2,000 Armed Forces members in Afghanistan, most stationed in the volatile south.