Domestic Terrorism/Public Attacks on CAF Personnel

[kratz]

Weren't we told in the past not to wear uniforms out of work?

Policies and enforcement change over time.

I echo EITS sentiment, but if levels are rising, even Marchog will have to do it again.

Sadly, there if this is the plan...even civilian clothing provides no safety, for servinging members or like minded agencies.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I agree. If the bad guys want you hurt bad enough they will eventually find a way despite what we do.

 

[Haggis]

Quick recovery to the 2 members, and good shoot SQ.

Best wishes to our wounded for a speedy recovery.

I believe that it was St. Jean-sur-Richelieu Police who took the decisvie action.

Personally I don't like the idea of "when threatened, the CAF hides in civilian clothes" approach.  We did this after 9-11, too and it caused a backlash.

What we should be doing is being more alert and aware of our surroundings.  How many of us actually take the time to employ basic security precautions when in public?  For example, when was the last time you did a "shoulder check" when using your Interac card in a public place?  Being observant is a life skill whether you're crossing the street or serving abroad.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I am in agreement with Haggis, basic security practiced by and for all of our citizenry should be emphasized at this point. "they walk among us".

Condolences to the wounded, I hope there is a speedy recovery.

And to the family of the accused/deceased, my heart goes out to you. It is tough, no matter what the circumstances, to lose someone that you hopefully have done your best to raise. 

 

[donaldk]

Best wishes to our wounded for a speedy recovery.

I believe that it was St. Jean-sur-Richelieu Police who took the decisvie action.

Personally I don't like the idea of "when threatened, the CAF hides in civilian clothes" approach.  We did this after 9-11, too and it caused a backlash.

What we should be doing is being more alert and aware of our surroundings.  How many of us actually take the time to employ basic security precautions when in public?  For example, when was the last time you did a "shoulder check" when using your Interac card in a public place?  Being observant is a life skill whether you're crossing the street or serving abroad.

Agree with your comment.  Being observant of your surroundings is prudent and commonly is how threats are outed.  I am pondering the civi dress of the day for my unit during work hours, however, another side of me says its cowardly to kick this in at this point and should stick with the uniform.  If civi dress is ordered from my CoC, it'll be done without question. All my guys come to and from work in civis so I am currently not concerned with rush hour comings and goings.

Food for thought:  Over in the UK, HM British Forces and allies attached to them are typically banned from wearing uniforms in Metro London due to these exact types of insurgent aggression towards uniformed military pers.  When I was on my SEMC course in the UK in 2010, my course as the others in the school were explicitly barred from doing rigger runs in London without express permission from both the CFSU(E) Ruislip detachment and the Canadian High Commission of London.

 

[Haggis]

Food for thought:  Over in the UK, HM British Forces and allies attached to them are typically banned from wearing uniforms in Metro London due to these exact types of insurgent aggression towards uniformed military pers.  When I was on my SEMC course in the UK in 2010, my course as the others in the school were explicitly barred from doing rigger runs in London without express permission from both the CFSU(E) Ruislip detachment and the Canadian High Commission of London.

And, given the threat situation in the UK and the plethora of both transnational and homegrown groups who have come to despise HM's Forces, I agree.  But let's put this into context.  A radicalized amateur see and runs down a uniformed soldier and then can't get away from the police and, in the end, elects to bring a knife to a gunfight.  Clearly this was a well planned and brilliantly executed terrorist attack.    But does it demand that the entire CAF now hide?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Perhaps some see it as precautionary. Besides we're pretty blind to the general population as it is. Would we really be despised?

 

[Ex-Pat FlagWagger]

Food for thought:  Over in the UK, HM British Forces and allies attached to them are typically banned from wearing uniforms in Metro London due to these exact types of insurgent aggression towards uniformed military pers.  When I was on my SEMC course in the UK in 2010, my course as the others in the school were explicitly barred from doing rigger runs in London without express permission from both the CFSU(E) Ruislip detachment and the Canadian High Commission of London.

I can't speak for the UK in recent years (since 2006 basically) but for many years, the threat from Irish terrorism drove us into civvies when off-base. For transit between home and unit we were permitted to wear a civvy jacket over our uniform and  were advised to vary our route. In terms of precautions we were advised to check under our cars for IEDs and even issued with a mirror/flashlight device to allow for easier checking. It was also suggested that uniform items should not, when laundered, be dried on washing lines that could be visible to an observer. There was also a central security operation running that permitted us to report any suspicious activity. Rig runs were rare, although they did happen (the biggest I experienced was in 2002 when 2000+ members of the RNR descended on central London for the Centenary parade on Horse Guards with celebratory drinks afterwards in any pub where we could find room). Ceremonial parades were often not publicised until minute, if at all - obviously participants and their families knew, but the general public were not iinformed.

We can take some sensible precautions to reduce the risk, but I agree we shouldn't be forced "underground" - if we are, then the extremists have won.

 

[kratz]

And, given the threat situation in the UK and the plethora of both transnational and homegrown groups who have come to despise HM's Forces, I agree.  But let's put this into context.  A radicalized amateur see and runs down a uniformed soldier and then can't get away from the police and, in the end, elects to bring a knife to a gunfight.  Clearly this was a well planned and brilliantly executed terrorist attack.    But does it demand that the entire CAF now hide?

If we choose to go further blind now, it would increase our CAF personal security on mass transit or conducting personal business...but as I alluded to earlier, there may be an increase in collateral damage when like minded agencies in or out of uniform become local "targets of opportunity" As Haggis mentioed, even our PRes are *covered, laugh by VAC*  if they are injured to / from work.

 

[George Wallace]

...........  A radicalized amateur see and runs down a uniformed soldier and then can't get away from the police and, in the end, elects to bring a knife to a gunfight.  ........

Before we get too far into this, why don't we wait until the investigation is complete and we know if this was a well planned terrorist attack and martyrdom or just some nut job who just happened to be a Muslim.  So far, reports from his neighbours mention that he had become very quiet and reclusive since his conversion.  I would question his sanity, after hearing some of the comments on the case so far.

Just remember to be mindful of your, and others', security in the meantime.

 

[BorisK]

Not sure if the link will work, but here is a link to the little nutjob's Facebook page :

https://www.facebook.com/Baller.Qc?ref=ts&fref=ts

(Posted just for those curious, analytical types such as myself.)

As an aside : Speediest of recovery both mentally and physically to those injured, and all effected. 

 

[vonGarvin]

One of the CAF members has died.


More here

 

[The Bread Guy]

One of the CAF members has died.

More here

Damn.

Condolences to family, colleagues & friends 

 

[jollyjacktar]

My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the fallen. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Local (Montreal-area) French-language media are covering a bit more of the driver's background (parents talked to authorities about his behaviour, authorities took away his passport, etc.) than English media so far - more here & here (in French).

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

First of all, my deepest sympathy to the family of our fallen comrade.

This does not seem to have come out in the English media but, for those familiar with Garrison Saint-Jean, this is not just another shopping strip mall. On one end of it, the end where the event happened, there is a federal/provincial government building that houses Services Canada offices, some of the local recruiting services, employment offices, and some other military functions ( I can't recall which ones exactly, either transport or family services or the like) as it is just down the road, ~1km from the back entrance of Mega, and about the same distance from College Militaire and its PMQ. Anyway the good people (and obviously the bad ones too) of Saint-Jean know very well that people in uniform walk in and out of there all the time during normal working days. I just don't think it was a coincidence that this nut job went there.

 

[jollyjacktar]

From the Daily Mail.  Photos as well at story link below.

Radicalized Canadian Muslim convert runs down two young soldiers in his car before being shot dead by police
- Martin Couture-Rouleau, 25, smashed his car into soldiers in Quebec
- Reportedly then drove off boasting to 911 about striking in name of Allah
- Police pursued him until he lost control of car and landed in a ditch
- Witnesses say got out, charged at cops with knife and was shot
- Both victim survived, but one was left with life-threatening injuries
- Couture-Rouleau, a recent convert, posted anti-West messages online
- Government today announced Couture-Rouleau is a known radical

ByKieran Corcoran for MailOnlineand Reuters

Published: 03:31 GMT, 21 October 2014 | Updated: 07:44 GMT, 21 October 2014

A radicalized Muslim convert ran down two soldiers in his car in an apparent terror attack Monday, before being shot dead by police.
Martin Couture-Rouleau, 25, sped into the two young soldiers - one uniformed and one not - around 11.30am in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, not far from Montreal.  After the impact he sped off, but was chased down by Canadian police, who shot him dead.

Both soldiers survived the attack, but one is now in hospital with life-threatening injuries.  A Canadian government spokesman today confirmed that Couture-Rouleau, who describes himself as a recent convert online, was on a list of known radicals.  One neighbor told reporters that the man had fallen in with extremist Muslims around a year ago.

On social media websites, Couture-Rouleau posted polemics attacking Christianity, Western leaders and Israel.  He also published images seemingly to glorify armed jihadist extremists, denigrating Westerners as 'kaffir', a derogatory Arabic term for non-believers.

After he ran down the two men, Couture-Rouleau called 911 and boasted to operators that he had attacked in the name of Allah, the Toronto Sun reported.  Eyewitnesses told the newspaper how during the police chase which followed, Couture-Rouleau rolled his car, which landed upside-down in a ditch.

They told how he emerged from the car with a long knife and charged at police - who then opened fire.  One witness said: 'I heard [the police] shout several times, "Get out of the car, get out of the car and raise your hands."  'The man got out and charged towards the policewoman. Then that's when we heard seven gunshots, then the man was on the ground.'

In a statement released shortly after the incident, a spokesman for Prime Minister Stephen Harper said: 'The individual who struck the two [Canadian Armed Forces] members with his car is known to federal authorities, including the Integrated National Security Enforcement Team.  'Federal authorities have confirmed that there are clear indications that the individual had become radicalized.'

Earlier in the day, Randy Hoback, a member of Parliament for the ruling Conservative Party, referred in the House of Commons to unconfirmed reports of 'a possible terror attack against two members of the Canadian armed forces.'

At the time, Harper said the reports were 'extremely troubling' but declined to give more details.  A spokesman for the Surete du Quebec police force said they were investigating whether the soldiers had been specifically targeted.  The Canadian government recently pledged six fighter jets to take part in the U.S.-led campaign against ISIS militants in Iraq.

Canadian security officials have fretted for years about the potential threat of radicalized young men, especially those traveling abroad to join militant groups including Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. There was no immediate indication Rouleau had traveled abroad.

Ray Boisvert, former assistant director for intelligence at the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) spy agency, said he suspects Rouleau was a lone actor who would have been difficult for authorities to stop.  'It reflects what's going on in a very active threat environment. You have far too many targets and far too many active targets,' he said.

The case bears some parallels to the murder in the UK last year of Lee Rigby, a member of the British Army who was run down then beheaded by two Muslim fanatics.  Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale rammed their car into Rigby as he walked down the street in the Woolwich suburb of London.  They then hacked his head from his shoulders with a meat cleaver and delivered threatening messages, characterizing the murder as a revenge attack, to bystanders recording with their phones.  Both were tried and convicted for the murder and are serving decades-long prison sentences.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2801102/radicalized-canadian-muslim-convert-runs-two-young-soldiers-car-shot-dead-police.html#ixzz3GmZqXsVv
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[OldSolduer]

RIP to the fallen soldier

 

[George Wallace]

English media (radio) has reported that he was a recent convert to Islam (1.5 years ago) after his 'Spray Wash' business was robbed and he was upset with the Police investigation progress.  It has reported on his FaceBook accounts and adopted Muslim names.  It also reported that his neighbours had seen his withdrawal and reclusive behaviour since his conversion.  This may raise questions about his mental state.

Now we are, no doubt, going to see a lot of discussion as to whether or not we should wait for another similar attack, or just empower the Law Enforcement agencies to start rounding up all those they believe are radicalized and under surveillance.  In a way, our democracy, freedoms and the Laws we live by have hampered our own security.  How far will the general public's attitudes swing towards enabling the agencies that are responsible for our security to do their jobs?  This is where the debate will show how naïve or not the general public is.  The Charter of Human Rights will also come under scrutiny. 

 

[Lightguns]

Hopefully, we do not start rounding up Canadians, that never worked before and left us with stains on our history.  Other than using personal SA, there is not alot we can do.  Not much more than protecting ourselves from ordinary crime and understanding the job makes you a target to certain elements.  My fear is that we will make society less free in order to appease an element that is already afraid of it's own shadow.