Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[Remius]

I think it's because that kind of compromise would be more acceptable to regimental assoc., honouraries vets etc.  They would be able to accept the changes without feeling that their regimental existance is gone.

 

[big bad john]

I think it's because that kind of compromise would be more acceptable to regimental assoc., honoraries vets etc.  They would be able to accept the changes without feeling that their regimental eexistenceis gone.

In the UK we have found that the key is that the Regimental existenceas you put it continues.  For example, look at the new Royal Regiment of Scotland.  The Battalions have continued the traditions of the founding regiments: 

(From the Regimental website  http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regts/scots/the_battalions/index.htm)

"The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

The Royal Scots Borderers (1 SCOTS) are the product of a merger between two famous antecedent Regiments, The Royal Scots and The King's Own Scottish Borderers, carrying on celebrated traditions and maintaining a reputation for excellence. The Battalion has inherited a broad range of infantry skills for all types of operations but particularly specialising in jungle warfare and fighting in built up areas. As well as that, its rugby players are currently the Army's Premier Rugby League and Rugby Sevens champions.  1 SCOTS is the local Battalion for the Lothians, Borders and Lanarkshire, and is based in Dreghorn Barracks, Edinburgh.



The Royal Highland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

The Royal Highland Fusiliers (2 SCOTS) have a proud heritage dating back to 1678 that included fighting in every major campaign the British Army has ever been involved in. Since the Second World War, the Battalion has deployed on operations all over the world, most recently in Iraq. 2 SCOTS are the local Battalion for Glasgow and Ayrshire and are based in Glencorse Barracks, Penicuik, where they are training to become the Army's quick reaction Spearhead Battalion, on standby to be sent at short notice to any troublespot in the world.



The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

The Black Watch (3 SCOTS) is one of the most famous army units in the world and traces its origins to six independent companies formed in 1725 to police the Highlands. Their first battle was at Fontenoy in 1745 and they have served with prominence and distinction all around the world since then, including America, Waterloo, both World Wars, Korea and Kosovo. They were the last British Battalion in Hong Kong and served in Iraq for the invasion and for their high profile deployment to Camp Dogwood supporting the US Marines. The Black Watch are the local Battalion for Perth, Dundee, Angus and Fife and are based near Belfast in Northern Ireland.



The Highlanders, 4th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

The Highlanders (4 SCOTS) came into being in 1994 as an amalgamation of The Queen's Own Highlanders and The Gordon Highlanders and have since served with distinction in Northern Ireland, Kosovo and Bosnia and trained in places such as Gibralter and Belize. In 2004, they became an Armoured Infantry Battalion as part of 7th Armoured Brigade, the world renowned 'Desert Rats'. 4 SCOTS are the local Battalion for the Highlands and are based in Fallingbostel, Germany and are at the forefront of the army as soldiers, skiers and sportsmen.



The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 5th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

The 'Argylls' (5 SCOTS) are over two hundred years old and have a record second to none as a fierce fighting unit, most famously nicknamed 'The Thin Red Line' for their defeat of the Russian Cavalry at the battle of Balaklava in 1854. They continue to demonstrate this ferocity as Scotland's Air Assault Battalion, working alongside elements of the Parachute Regiment and Army Air Corps, being ready and trained to deploy to any trouble spot in the world, at very short notice. The Argylls are the local Battalion for the west of Scotland and are based in Canterbury.



52nd Lowland, 6th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

52nd Lowland (6 SCOTS) has a long and illustrious heritage as the descendant of Territorial units that fought in both World Wars. Nowadays it is a Light Role Infantry Battalion, which means it can specialise in anti-tank missile systems, mortars and machine guns as well as the normal infantry role of defeating the enemy. The Battalion recruits from all over the lowlands with TA Centres in Ayr, Bathgate, Dumfries, Edinburgh, Galashiels, Glasgow and Motherwell. 6 SCOTS frequently deploys soldiers on operations with Regular Battalions to places such as Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans and has trained in recent years on exercises in the Ukraine, America, Belgium and Slovakia.



51st Highland, 7th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland

51st Highland (7 SCOTS) is the descentant of the famous 'Fighting 51st' Highland Division which fought on France's Western Front in the First World War and in El Alamein and Normandy in the Second World War. It is a Light Role Infantry Battalion, which means that it is highly skilled with the same weapons as its Regular counterparts and trained in the tactics of a modern infantry unit. 7 SCOTS has deployed soldiers on operations to Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans and has trained in recent years on exercises in Romania, Canada, Kenya and Cyprus. The Battalion recruits from all over the highlands and has TA Centres in Aberdeen, Dumbarton, Dunoon, Dundee, Inverness, Keith, Kirkaldy, Lerwick, Peterhead, Perth, Stirling, Stornoway and Wick. "

This is an example of preserving your regimental traditions in an amalgamation and by no means is this the only way.  In the UK alone we have done it numerous other ways ourselves.

I hope that this helps.

 

[Journeyman]

Funny that you got that reaction.

But you cut out my next line....

Any change that will make a unit more effective (ie - more realistic training) will be supported by the majority of the troops. Most changes, however, face resistance from those that see the Reserves as a social club, the regimental mafias, and to a lesser degree, the Honouraries. They will have to be brought on side, or otherwise de-fanged.

The troops tend to be onside, and see the logic of having a unit large enough to do realistic AND.....dare I say.....fun, training. But you cannot deny there are impediments to militia evolution.  :

 

[TCBF]

Two Questions:

One:  Why now, when we have the money, are we planning on getting rid of hat badges?  We have lost too many over the last eighty years, and I don't believe amalgamation solves any problems at all.  Perhaps in U.K. but here our population is too spread out to have local interest in a Regiment from a city hundreds of miles away.  Rationalize where you can, but do NOT strike Regiments from the Order of Battle.  Even 'Reduction To Nil Strength' is better than that - you can always bring them back.

Two:  Why does Toronto - the center of the known universe - not have the largest militia Regiments in Canada?  There are 4,558,800 people in Toronto,  and 4,168,123 people in British Columbia.  Who parades the most Reservists?

 

[R031button]

Two:  Why does Toronto - the center of the known universe - not have the largest militia Regiments in Canada?  There are 4,558,800 people in Toronto,  and 4,168,123 people in British Columbia.  Who parades the most Reservists?

Maybe because there's more regiments in Toronto then in BC...

 

[TCBF]

Count'em.

http://www.cflc.forces.gc.ca/provinces/on/on-who_e.asp

 

[Spr.Earl]

Maybe because there's more regiments in Toronto then in BC...

Er let me think there is C.4th's ,Can Scot's,B.Cr's,15th Field RCA,5 Tribe RCA,Rocky Mountain ram buggers and not last but the best,6Fd and 44Fd Sqn CME.,oh and not lets forget 12Svc,12Med and that same on the Island,the only reason we are good is because we on the left coast make do with what we get from Upper Canada!

You lot down east are so pampered when it comes to funding ,we get jack shit and make do with what we get and we work hard with what we are given and over the years in my own ipinion we produced bloody good soldiers who have gone on into the Reg.'s

Don't come the old quantity crap with us.

 

[pbi]

1. No cap badges wil disappear;

Why, though? If I'm not mistaken, a goodly number of the Inf Regts that exist today are the results of rebadgings and amalgamations that occurred mostly in the first half of the 20th century. So what? As long as the battle honours are preserved, and there is some reasonable way of respectfully perpetuating key traditions of the former units, and a strong connection is maintained with the local community (probably the most important factor), IMHO no real harm is done. The regiment (under whatever name) long outlasts those who served in it at a particular time under a particular badge.


My point would be: don't get rid of cap badges willy-nilly, or "just because"; but don't let capbadges become an unnecessary obstacle for change that is needed.  If we accept that badges and traditions have any real value at all in building identity and cohesion (i.e.: they serve some purpose other than passing historical interest), then if we create new structures we have to create an identity that supports that structure and makes it strong, by whatever the smartest and most effective means is.

Cheers

 

[Rifleman62]

Well, I have been around for a long time ( as pbi can attest to ), and I strongly advocate the tactical grouping of units. There are tons of reasons to do so, and few sound reasons not to do it. May unit succession go to the most worthy, not the last person standing. Our PRes units have not won a battle honour since 1945! The CLS will wisely, cut through the chaff and do it. It is long past time that we in the Reserve got on with transformation. Do I want my capbadge to disappear. No, but it won't with tactical grouping as we have done in 38 CBG with the Arty and Svc Bns.

 

[Gunner]

Well, I have been around for a long time ( as pbi can attest to ), and I strongly advocate the tactical grouping of units. There are tons of reasons to do so, and few sound reasons not to do it. May unit succession go to the most worthy, not the last person standing. Our PRes units have not won a battle honour since 1945! The CLS will wisely, cut through the chaff and do it. It is long past time that we in the Reserve got on with transformation. Do I want my capbadge to disappear. No, but it won't with tactical grouping as we have done in 38 CBG with the Arty and Svc Bns.

+1

(to the points you raised and for being around for a long time!)

 

[darmil]

We had a briefing on Wednesday night on what is going to happen to some of the reserve units across LFWA.Also a brief touch on the Territorial battalions that are active now which all reserve units belong to now.Most units are being merged together like for example two Artillery units in one province will only have one CO, same for service batt .For the armoured units in 41 BG(Alberta) its not clear whats going to happen because reserve armour never goes over seas a tankers and so forth.The army wants more INFANTRY so you never know.As for the Calgary Highlanders and the Loyal Edmonton Regiment these two units are being left alone for now because they are augmenting the reg force.It seems that the units that have poor numbers are being merged together which makes sense, my CO showed this on the power point.Its going to be interesting on whats going to happen in the next few years. Watch and shoot!

 

[TCBF]

"...and a strong connection is maintained with the local community (probably the most important factor),"

- It is the most important factor - but the one that was not considered.  Look at the towns who lost their units and armouries in the last fifty years.  There are now only cadets in those towns, and the Armoury is a restaurant or similar.  You can't expect people outside of the mega cities to drive two hours to parade.  We have lost the concept of community armouries.  No wonder those of us in uniform appear an alien race to our universities.

 

[darmil]

I agree about the towns losing the armouries, that came up on Wednesdays briefing.Hopefully they have a plan to bring sub units out to rural areas.There was someone on this site that was trying to get a infantry coy to Prince George can't remember who that was.Anyways places like PG should have reserve coys even for domestic stuff like forest fires and such.Maybe this might be an idea in the Territorial battalions.

 

[pbi]

You can't expect people outside of the mega cities to drive two hours to parade.

Really? That was quite common in 38 CBG: we had lots of soldiers making long hauls to get to their units in SK, MB and NWON. Some units even changed to parading on weekends so soldiers could drive in on Fri night and home on Sun afternoon. Still, I agree with re-establishing outlying sub-units in areas that are not currently served by a local Reserve unit.

Cheers

 

[ArmyRick]

Does anybody have a link for LFRR web sites (public or DIN)?

 

[Brad Sallows]

>As for us in the HS, we've got a LCol, Maj, CWO, MWO, among others, for a unit that has 83 names on the nominal roll (not regular paraders).  Our sister Fd Amb in Victoria has about the same.  Efficient, no?

And how many Res F Capt, Lt, WO, and Sgt in the same unit?

(My point: the HS reserve has a manning/rank problem right now as it makes the transition from a 'we recruit and train' to a 'we recruit the trained' force.  Right now I suppose most HS reserve units either have a couple or few old hands who have achieved high rank and a gap in the middle leadership, or just a few leaders at middle rank levels if the old hands have already left.  Imagine what the reserve infantry units would look like if they were trying to recruit primarily ex-regs and members of police SWAT teams.  What would the aforementioned unit look like in 3 years if it had change of command and RSM right now and the new appointees subsequently turned over and left 3 years hence?)

 

[Donut]

As usual, Mr Sallows, you're bang on.

It's not like anyone else is trying to hire health care providers, and this 95% employment in general isn't going to hurt us at all!  :-X

 

[retiredgrunt45]

While these ideas all have merit, no one had addressed the most important equation.

"Were will we get the manpower to fill these new battalions, companies"?

We can barely fill positions in the existing regiments, let alone 4 or five new battalions. We can ask reservists to transfer to these new  reg force inits, which maybe a few will but i'm sure many won't because of prior commitments, civilian jobs etc. Can't say i would blame them. Or we can authroize huge signup bonus's to new recruits, but i'm sure the treasury department would balk at that idea.

The Americans are having the same problems with manpower shortages, only on a much larger scale. National Guard units tours in Iraq are being extended 2 or 3 times just to keep enough boots on the ground. Many of their soldiers have done 2 or 3, 1 year tours in Iraq since 2003. Even though their civilian jobs are protected back at home, it doesn't diminish the fact that these troops are tired and wore out.

I feel the government has bit of abit more than what they can chew by extending the operation until 2009. Most of our troops are going to see 4 or 5 tours, maybe more, before its over and it's headed right in the same direction the American's are at right now. "Tired and worn out troops".

 

[PhilB]

Another quick thought/question. I have been hearing a lot lotely about the reserve battalion possibly being set up in calgary/victoria etc. I know a lot of guys in my unit are seriously considering this as an option, incl trained guys that have been deployed on roto 1. As its in their area it means less of a change or for whatever reasons they have. This could be a large pool of troops to deploy. They would have more current training and could be thrown into the mix. After my experience on my last tour I would in know way advocate sending them under reserve leadership, however if they trained together as a formed body for long enough it might be one more cohesive force to deploy. Just a thought

 

[dglad]

Another quick thought/question. I have been hearing a lot lotely about the reserve battalion possibly being set up in calgary/victoria etc. I know a lot of guys in my unit are seriously considering this as an option, incl trained guys that have been deployed on roto 1. As its in their area it means less of a change or for whatever reasons they have. This could be a large pool of troops to deploy. They would have more current training and could be thrown into the mix. After my experience on my last tour I would in know way advocate sending them under reserve leadership, however if they trained together as a formed body for long enough it might be one more cohesive force to deploy. Just a thought

I think you may be referring to the Territorial Defence Battalion Groups that are being considered for formation in various major urban centres across the country.  These are not "new" units; they are intended to be groupings of existing Reserve units tagged for force employment in domestic ops.  As such, it's likely they'll see additional training in things related to domestic ops, and could deploy in whole or in part on domestic ops under CanadaCom.  But I doubt that they would constitute organizations that are deployable on expeditionary ops.  If that's the understanding that you and your buddies have, it's probably unrealistic.  You may want to discuss the matter with your chain of command for further details.