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Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yard Ape
  • Start date Start date
Sections yes, platoons maybe, companies would be a stretch right now. Shift some organization and training policies and maybe we’ll see MWOs and Maj’s who are used to leading full companies. I actually think the OJT Dp1 training, while and awful idea for the regular force, will be a net positive for the reserves.

Agreed.

Given the opportunity to build up sections and platoons properly during the training year, September to May, you could pull everyone together during a summer FTX and get them up to Coy level tasks pretty quickly over a 2 week period.
 
Probably the same geniuses that wrote in requirements for Mortar ranges to have an artillery mosid RSO.


Very irritating that we never see “our” support platoons in the field.


Sections yes, platoons maybe, companies would be a stretch right now. Shift some organization and training policies and maybe we’ll see MWOs and Maj’s who are used to leading full companies. I actually think the OJT Dp1 training, while and awful idea for the regular force, will be a net positive for the reserves.
I believe FJAG's point is that with 30/70 units you'd have Reg Force Majors & MWO's leading Reserve Captains and WOs/Sergeants.
 
To be fair, simplistic tasks will not recruit and keep Reserve soldiers. Other armies are quite capable of having well armed and equipped Reserves conducting most tasks. The problem is how the army is structured and supported.

It's not quite the case. While they may have better (in quantity and quality) equipment, the majority require significant workup / preparation time to deploy. Blended units that increase in full-time as readiness level increases help offset that somewhat.

The old militia myth refuses to die; the soldiers who landed in Italy (and those who later landed in Normandy) had years of training - they were not straight off the farm and into combat the next day.

Finally, despite my affinity for trash talking the infantry and the combat arms, what they do is not a set of "simplistic tasks"; effectively practicing the skills they need should never be "boring" unless the leadership is weak and failing.
 
I believe FJAG's point is that with 30/70 units you'd have Reg Force Majors & MWO's leading Reserve Captains and WOs/Sergeants.
I was responding in that case to Daftandbarmy’s comment that the reserves can presently do that.
 
I was responding in that case to Daftandbarmy’s comment that the reserves can presently do that.

Given the current range of courses available to the Reserves, assuming you've got a handful of RESO trained Pl Comds and at least one OC with the Dismounted Coy Comd's Course, any unit should be good to go.
 
Given the current range of courses available to the Reserves, assuming you've got a handful of RESO trained Pl Comds and at least one OC with the Dismounted Coy Comd's Course, any unit should be good to go.
Big fan of RESO. We could do more with it and should expand it into similar programs for ResF NCMs for complex trades and a branch of ResF SnrNCO training including porting it to Community Colleges

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During weekend exercises it would be relatively easy to centralize platoons from various units. I’ve seen it done before. It just takes some planning and coordination, and the right reason e.g., a directive from X or XX to train platoons and companies.
Which goes to what I wrote in an earlier post:
  • the reserves need to be given a mandate to force generate X (I suggested platoons) to a deployable standard
  • the structure of the reserves needs to be built around that. Ie what can assess that level of training and group that in catchment areas that can support it.
  • training needs to be designed in a way that allows those units to mass for effective training. I don’t see much value in a three hour parade night and it’s less cost effective to do for of those than 2 days on a weekend anyways.
 
Which goes to what I wrote in an earlier post:
  • the reserves need to be given a mandate to force generate X (I suggested platoons) to a deployable standard
  • the structure of the reserves needs to be built around that. Ie what can assess that level of training and group that in catchment areas that can support it.
  • training needs to be designed in a way that allows those units to mass for effective training. I don’t see much value in a three hour parade night and it’s less cost effective to do for of those than 2 days on a weekend anyways.

Or increase the meagre man days allotment from 37 annually, up to half of which gets siphoned off for anything except preparing platoons for battle, so that troops can train two weekends a month, which they will do if the training has meaning and is well organized and supported with ammo and other enablers.
 
In a lot of ways you and I are talking exactly the same thing. When I talk about a 30/70 battalion I'm talking about the following:

Which goes to what I wrote in an earlier post:
  • the reserves need to be given a mandate to force generate X (I suggested platoons) to a deployable standard
Each battalion has two rifle companies that are reserve centric and structured 10/90. The 90 is three rifle platoons of reservists. The 10 is a RegF company core with a RegF Coy Comd and various RegF and ResF HQ personnel. The company is basically trained and equipped as a light infantry company by its RegF leadership.
  • the structure of the reserves needs to be built around that. Ie what can assess that level of training and group that in catchment areas that can support it.
The two 10/90 companies belong to a 30/70 battalion where the bulk of its leadership, one complete rifle company and much of its support companies are staffed by RegF and are fully equipped. The RegF CO is responsible for the full training of his RegF and two ResF companies.
  • training needs to be designed in a way that allows those units to mass for effective training. I don’t see much value in a three hour parade night and it’s less cost effective to do for of those than 2 days on a weekend anyways.
Neither do I see value in those parade nights. In my kingdom, ResF members receive all their DP1 and 2 training at depot battalions and companies that exist both at a central location and distributed to local armouries and who train both the RegF and ResF to those levels. RegF individual training occurs 1 Sept to 30 Apr and individual ResF training takes place across the summer from 1 May to 31 Aug. Once DP1 trained at a depot, soldiers are "posted" to their units and there receive nothing but collective training.

ResF collective training takes place one 2.5 day weekend per month Sept to Jun and one 17.5 day or 23.5 day exercise in August under the control of their RegF battalion and company staff and using the battalion's equipment. There is no unit collective training in July. The RegF component of the battalion (including the leadership component of the 10/90 companies do their collective training 1 Sep to 30 Apr and transition to maintenance, APS, annual leave and assisting ResF training for the months 1 May to 30 Aug.

It's an integrated system which based, on the current level of authorized RegF subunits, is capable of forming up to 18 infantry battalions, 9 recce/armoured regiments and 6 artillery regiments which equates to 6-8 manoeuvre brigades. There are, however one or two battalions one might want to keep at greater than 30/70 strength - 70/30 or even 100/0 - which would make a 5 -6 manoeuvre brigade structure more viable.

An additional point. One can generate even more ResF companies through this structure simply by adding on 10/90 companies, squadrons or batteries to each 30/70 battalion as the essential RegF infrastructure to support them is already in place. One only needs to add small RegF core cells for each one.

The increase in deployable brigade and battalion cores makes peacetime rotations simpler and generating trained ResF augmentees easier.

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It's not quite the case. While they may have better (in quantity and quality) equipment, the majority require significant workup / preparation time to deploy. Blended units that increase in full-time as readiness level increases help offset that somewhat.

The old militia myth refuses to die; the soldiers who landed in Italy (and those who later landed in Normandy) had years of training - they were not straight off the farm and into combat the next day.
I am quite aware of how long it took to work up the army, the navy on the other hand sailed ships sometimes with only one person who had actually been to sea.
 
I'm not a defender of Reserves 2000.

Their origin comes from a RegF movement in Ontario under MGen Vernon to downsize and amalgamate units and it was done in a way that involved minimal ResF involvement. Tie that to the debacle of the disappearing Bisons and a multitude of other actions which made it clear that reservists were not partners in the process but merely pawns to be shoved around.

Reserves 2000 opposed this and makes it clear that the required solution is to leave the units as the Army's contact with the nation, to raise the numbers to 30,000 and to properly equip the reserves. Vernon's arrogance and divide and conquer approach was the catalyst that mobilized the movement.






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I was MGen Vernon's ADC during that period. On no less than three occasions, I witnessed Reserve CO's stating that Hon Col's forbid Reserve units from following LFCA direction. It wasn't MGen Vernon's arrogance, it was a complete frustration from how much influence that former members, no longer serving, but affiliated with those units, had ( and in my opinion, still have)

And BTW, MGen Herb Pitts was extensively consulted, as were other Honorary Colonels and LCol's. The other side had more influence, and won the day.
 
I was MGen Vernon's ADC during that period. On no less than three occasions, I witnessed Reserve CO's stating that Hon Col's forbid Reserve units from following LFCA direction. It wasn't MGen Vernon's arrogance, it was a complete frustration from how much influence that former members, no longer serving, but affiliated with those units, had ( and in my opinion, still have)

And BTW, MGen Herb Pitts was extensively consulted, as were other Honorary Colonels and LCol's. The other side had more influence, and won the day.
As I said, I do not carry any water for Reserves 2000. I think that much of what they did back then, and now, is wrong headed. But the problem is very much a two-sided one with the only common ground between them being keeping the ResF separated from the RegF and under their own leadership. I'll add to that the "train when you feel like it" model of reserve service That leads to a perpetuation of the problem.

There were and still are two issues here. The first is that the Army ResF structure, as originally conceived as a Militia, had two purposes - to make contact with the civilian population across the country in a way that the small permanent force couldn't and the current RegF can't; and to be a core around which mobilization takes place.

The former is still necessary but the later is a model that is less useful because of the complexity of modern war and its much heavier reliance on equipment than that of the old style Militia (where essentially a rifle and a uniform for each soldier was 90% of the kit a battalion needed.)

Vernon's initiatives were presented poorly in a dictatorial fashion and not well received by his audience. There's a great difference between consulting, even extensively consulting, and building consensus. The problem in fact centred around those "LFCA directions" which were, in varying degrees unattainable such as "build and reach warrior combat readiness by year's-end" on ever shrinking budgets.

Vernon had issues in how he approached things which smacked of arrogance. Just as an example look at his interview with Macleans after his retirement.

I recall those days as well, although with more distance than you as the issues were still hammering around in Chief of Reserves Council when I went there a few years later. Reserves 2000 was clearly marked as the enemy (actually more like the Devil's spawn) by those there and while I liked and respected many of my colleagues there, more than a few of them had drunk the RegF Kool-Aid. Rather than working together with Reserves 2000 to leverage their considerable political connections in successive governments, they declared war and butted heads. The result was that politicians declared a pox on both their houses and dodged meaningful reform issues whenever possible. It was such a wasted opportunity.

Vernon may have had good intentions, (I'll give him that) but his ham-fisted way of dealing with things poisoned an already shaky relationship and spread it nation-wide.

And just as an aside, I'll happily admit that there were a number of RegF leaders throughout the years who were very good and did try to advance the system in very meaningful ways. Unfortunately with the rotating desk career structure within the RegF, progress was fleeting and frequently abandoned or reversed to the former status quo.

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After one resoundingly poor briefing he made to assembled Reservists in Petawawa, everyone called him General Vermin.
Condescension was in his blood, or at least it routinely showed up in his bloodwork.
 
Wondering how spineless a Res F CO has to be to take direction from outside the CoC. Even well before that time I understood that the only response to any kind of direction from an "Old Boy" was "thank you for your advice".
 
As I said, I do not carry any water for Reserves 2000. I think that much of what they did back then, and now, is wrong headed. But the problem is very much a two-sided one with the only common ground between them being keeping the ResF separated from the RegF and under their own leadership. I'll add to that the "train when you feel like it" model of reserve service That leads to a perpetuation of the problem.

There were and still are two issues here. The first is that the Army ResF structure, as originally conceived as a Militia, had two purposes - to make contact with the civilian population across the country in a way that the small permanent force couldn't and the current RegF can't; and to be a core around which mobilization takes place.

The former is still necessary but the later is a model that is less useful because of the complexity of modern war and its much heavier reliance on equipment than that of the old style Militia (where essentially a rifle and a uniform for each soldier was 90% of the kit a battalion needed.)

Vernon's initiatives were presented poorly in a dictatorial fashion and not well received by his audience. There's a great difference between consulting, even extensively consulting, and building consensus. The problem in fact centred around those "LFCA directions" which were, in varying degrees unattainable such as "build and reach warrior combat readiness by year's-end" on ever shrinking budgets.

Vernon had issues in how he approached things which smacked of arrogance. Just as an example look at his interview with Macleans after his retirement.

I recall those days as well, although with more distance than you as the issues were still hammering around in Chief of Reserves Council when I went there a few years later. Reserves 2000 was clearly marked as the enemy (actually more like the Devil's spawn) by those there and while I liked and respected many of my colleagues there, more than a few of them had drunk the RegF Kool-Aid. Rather than working together with Reserves 2000 to leverage their considerable political connections in successive governments, they declared war and butted heads. The result was that politicians declared a pox on both their houses and dodged meaningful reform issues whenever possible. It was such a wasted opportunity.

Vernon may have had good intentions, (I'll give him that) but his ham-fisted way of dealing with things poisoned an already shaky relationship and spread it nation-wide.

And just as an aside, I'll happily admit that there were a number of RegF leaders throughout the years who were very good and did try to advance the system in very meaningful ways. Unfortunately with the rotating desk career structure within the RegF, progress was fleeting and frequently abandoned or reversed to the former status quo.

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Brian Vernon and John (which he styled himself earlier in his career, then switched to Jean) Boyle hated each other. I re-read the MacLeans article, it is correct to my knowledge.
 
Wondering how spineless a Res F CO has to be to take direction from outside the CoC. Even well before that time I understood that the only response to any kind of direction from an "Old Boy" was "thank you for your advice".
That's a tad heavy assessment. It's hardly ever direction as much as it is sage advice. Most honouraries are either former COs who've "been there and done that" or other community leaders who have the best interests of the unit and community at heart.

When we talk about the difference in ways between the ResF leaders and RegF leaders its principally because of the sum of the military experiences of each of them brings to the table. A decision or dicta set down from above may be seen as a 'No-brainer" to a RegF officer who is conditioned (mostly) to accept it but can easily be seen as more equivocal or problematic by a reservist whose natural inclination will be to consult with others who he considers his peers. For many RegF officers their relationships with others is fleeting at best while sharing postings and then moving on and possibly reconnecting down the line. For most ResF officers the relationships can be life-long often having lived in the same community and unit for decades.

When the CoC is only one that exists short-term and part-time one has to expect that it will not be stronger than life-time connections.

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That's a tad heavy assessment. It's hardly ever direction as much as it is sage advice. Most honouraries are either former COs who've "been there and done that" or other community leaders who have the best interests of the unit and community at heart.
.

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Key point being the ‘unit and community’, not necessarily the CAF or PRes as a whole.

IMHO most Militia units act like a Fiefdom, that only pays lip service to those above.
 
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