• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Discussion of Canada's Role in AFG (merged)

GO!!! said:
Ever wonder why the Star is only read in TO, or why the NDP is still part of the opposition?

It's an editorial, not a news piece and thus it's supposed to be based on opinion. If anyone bothered to look at the editorial page of their website, you'd find a counter-piece by Rondi Adamson. Of course, then it might not be as easy to cast aspersions on the source or find another excuse to bash TO.
 
valleyhills said:
Of course, the main reason we're in Afghanistan is because the Americans want us there to support their "war on terror," and we see this as a way to make up to them for not joining their invasion of Iraq.

Does Ms McCuiag not realize that our involvement in Afghanistan pre-dates the Iraq war by a couple of years?  Pretty poor journalism, even for a lefty.
 
Hunter said:
Does Ms McCuiag not realize that our involvement in Afghanistan pre-dates the Iraq war by a couple of years?  Pretty poor journalism, even for a lefty.

Doesn't know, doesn't care. She and her kind will spew out this vile crap in order to attack the political right (you know us, individual freedoms, personal responsibility, property rights, rule of law) regardless of the truth. Any advances on our side means a corresponding diminution of the "Left" (Big government, group rights, confiscation of personal wealth and property to support collectivist projects, laws being created out of thin air by unelected and unaccountable jurists as opposed to the elected legislature), and of course that can't be allowed to happen; Ms McCuiag and her kind know better than we do how to live our lives (remember the "beer and popcorn" remark. That was no abberation).
 
Just to add my two cents to a fairly healthy barrage of responses. I'm getting tired of hearing/reading the knee-jerk anti-US prattlings of leftist academics and journalists on the subject of the NATO/US missions in Afghanistan, particularly when they have apparently done very little useful research on which to base their conclusions. The other day, for example, I was torturing myself by listening to CIUT (UofT radio) while stuck in commuter traffic here in TO. They were playing a lecture by an academic whose interpretations of the facts of the situation was, to put it politely, "loose". He talked about the US forces in Afghanistan being a few thousand troops "hiding in Kabul", then occasionally "rushing out into the countryside in armoured vehicles". Anybody who knows anything useful about OEF knows that this is just utter garbage. But, of course, his intellectually defenceless (not to say utterly predisposed...) audience sucked it all up. With no real knowledge, how could they do anything else? I guess critical thinking in universities is only to be applied against representatives of the centre or right, not the left. And, certainly, not against anti-US ranters who appear to be sacrosanct.

Typically these people either have no grasp of recent political/military history, or see these things through an anti-US, anti-Western lens. They have (if they are Canadian) paid little or no attention to the history of our committment in Afghanistan, do not understand what it is about, and reject it  because it is seen to be helping the wicked US. I wonder what they would have said about going to Rwanda if the US had been the lead nation there?

Cheers
 
Why are we in Kandahar? Simplistically put we are in Kandahar in large measure because the previous government wanted to find a way to improve our relations with the Bush administration, and ponying up forces for a major deployment in Afghanistan was one way to show our bona fides.
http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/March%2006/afghanbecause.htm

Comon boys, question your elected officials
 
I can't believe you came here to make a statement like that. That is what's known as a troll, and you've just given the dictionary definition. Take a hike.

The Glog and Mog is a Lieberal rag that perpetuates falsehoods and half truths to support their raison de tere of the week, and garner Lieberal grants and funds. Similar to the totally misconstrued falsehoods perpetrated by that other prominent Ottawa rag. When the Lieberals were in, the military could do no wrong, with the deployments they sent us on, lacking equipment, supplies and manpower. Now that the Conservatives are in, the Lieberals are bitching, heaping blame on the mission THEY created and started us on, trying to make the Conservatives the fall guys for the Lieberal folly. Two faced lying pieces of shit. Their own, supposed saviour, P Martin JUNIOR, didn't even have the balls to stick it out and defend his own position. I use the term JUNIOR, because I knew his Dad personally. He was the last honest, caring, constituent friendly MP, the Lieberals had.

With the way the Lieberals have treated and left the Forces, you have a lot of gall linking us to your pathetic site.

I'm going to do you a small favour. You wanted feedback? I'll leave it open........for a bit. We know what your trying to do. To paraphrase "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!

Game on. Make sure you don't slip out of your Birkenstocks when you run down the hill. Us uncouth, silly army bastards will likely fill them with beer and drink out of them. ;)
 
CAN SOMEONE GET PIKE SOME RUBBER BOOTS PLEASE..he just stepped in a whole lot of it now.


Walrus
 
He's entitled to his opinions, just like the rest of us.

Pike, I'm curious as to your academic qualifications. You have made quite a brash statement, but offered very little evidence to support it; if indeed you are a university student like so many of us here on army.ca, you must know that the link you provided does not qualify as a reputable reference. If you are serious about "enlightening" us, you're going to have to back it up in a far more proficient manner. 
 
You're right Pike! Good on ya for waking us poor brainwashed grunts up...

I guess countries like France, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Sweeden, Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, Belgium, Ireland and a hockey sock full of others are here trying to suck up to the Bush Administration too, because everyone knows they're all such big fans of him ::)

The real reason of course, is we're all here looking for oil... in between rocket attacks and suicide bombings we sneak out of our camps under the cover of darkness and drill test wells... the saunas of Finland won't heat themselves ya know!!
 
Stick your head back in your water bong where it belongs.  :threat:
 
Because if we aren't there to provide security while a country devastated by 30 years of war tries to rebuild itself, it is too vulnerable to be overrun with terrorist's and terrorist sympathizers in government.  Once Karzai's government is on it's feet and there's some infrastructure in place, and they can handle their own affairs, we'll be out of there. 

You have alot of balls to ask a question like that here................ Good men have died in Afghanistan to give that country a fighting chance at democracy and I won't listen to left wing pacifists say those men died in vain.  And if we pulled out before the job was finished, thats exactly what their deaths would be.  Don't worry, the good men and women in uniform will get the job done hippie, you won't be drafted.  Do us a favour - leave and never come back.
 
Pike, Pike Pike...... I could fill this page with four letter words and signs like this , ( F@#* y*# ) but I won't lower myself to that. I will simply refer you back to Reccecrewman's note above mine because it brings chills to my spine and if you have a patriotic bone in your body you will apologize to all members on this site and never never return.
 
You have a hell of a lot of nerve coming in here and saying what you did a day after one soldier was killed and six others were wounded and on the same day as four were wounded in a suicide attack. I barely have words for what I want to say to you and, in accordance with site guidlines, I will keep my words for myself. As has been said already, do the right thing, apologize and never return.
 
Pike's trollish post omits the fact that there was a second op ed piece published in the G&M in support of the mission the same day, and that this article is taken out of the context of a being one of a series of articles to get the public talking about Afghanistan, something I see nothing wrong with... principally because anyone with half a brain would quickly conclude that it's the right mission.

recceguy - I think of all the papers out there, the G&M is probably the one that represents the CF best, it's generally even keeled, constructive, and doesn't print articles that needlessly scaremonger (ie the National Post's article on the 9mm).  It does a pretty good job of keeping whatever government is in power on its toes by asking questions, but seems to be fairly well balanced in all.  Their coverage of AStan I think has been good, keeping it in the forefront of people's minds and getting people to think critically.  That's responsible journalism, IMHO.
 
I really don't want to see Pike leave...........not just yet.  Pike has played a little game with us, and posted two 'Canned' Topics all within the space of 1.17 minutes.  She would have to be an awful fast typist to post three posts in two different forums in that quick a time.  I think she is indeed trolling, but really doesn't have the brains to defend her statements.  They are only statements that she has found somewhere else and thought would incite a bunch of 'Evil Baby-killing Army Guys'.  Let's let her have the opportunity to match wits with us and perhaps have some 'meaningful' dialogue.  I am glad to see that we so far have kept our 'workplace' vocabulary to a minimum in our responses to her.

Oh! her posts were initiated at:

The Mess / Political /      Mandatory Minimum Sentances Do not Work                            on: Today at 01:42:02
The Mess / Political /      Danish Newspaper Editor in his own words (muslim cartoons)      on: Today at 01:43:19
and then this one;
The Parade Square /      The Canadian Army / And we are in Afghanistan because??         on: Today at 02:08:28

Be nice to her.....it may be the first 'honest' debate she has ever had.     ;D
 
Did anyone, especially Pike, bother to read Peggy Wente's opinion piece all the way through, right to the end of the last paragraph?

Doesn't look like it.

After some background about 'tit Jean's motives she says almost exactly what Gen Hillier said: we're in Afghanistan to defeat the Taliban and Al Qaeda.  She adds, rightly, if the polls are correct, that a very large number of Canadians are not convinced that Hiller (and she) are right – it is going to be tough to change their minds.

Pike picked a piece which does nothing to support the proposition that we should hold the government to account.

Sheesh!
 
a little pathetic..... but at least it got our blood pumpin!

And on that note, we bid Pike a fond "Adieu", tata, Bye, bye
 
Wow. I haven't seen so much venom unleashed so fast since the last time Armyboi spoke about...well, anything.

Let's see, the full article is at http://www.breakthesilence.ca/politics/March%2006/afghanbecause.htm
The email address in Pike's profile is  info@breakthesilence.ca

Oh, so Pike is guilty of self-serving marketting, readily confirmed by the posting history highlighted by George, above.

Echoing Edward, however, I read the article to its conclusion, with the final paragraph being:

"In other words, Afghanistan is a nasty, bloody place. It has confounded every foreign force that's dared to meddle in it. And in the end, there is just one reason to be there. It's to wipe out al-Qaeda and the Taliban before they wipe out us. And that's one tough sell." 
(my emphasis)

A tough sell indeed, especially with casualties mounting, and the Canadian population still preferring a "peacekeeping nation" mythology.
 
For the past week the Globe and Mail (which, like it or not, is probably as close as we, in Canada, get to having a national newspaper of record) has been focusing on our mission in Afghanistan.  (I highlight the our because I agree with the Globe’s editorial position, which follows, which is, essentially, that ‘we’ (all Canadians) need to get behind Gen. Hillier and his transformation project so that ‘our’ armed forces can protect and promote ‘our’ national interests around the world, including in Afghanistan.) 

Here is the Globe and Mail editorial which (along with a very flattering article about Gen. Hillier and his plans), I suspect, is intended to cap the week which began with a provocative story/poll which told us that most Canadians neither understand nor support the CF’s Afghanistan mission.  (This editorial is reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Ac t.)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060303.EAFGHAN03/TPStory/Opinion/editorials 
Hillier's compelling case for the Afghan mission

Yesterday at 2:30 a.m., General Rick Hillier was awoken by a telephone call. Corporal Paul Davis of Bridgewater, N.S., had been killed in a road accident near Kandahar. He was the 10th Canadian to die in Afghanistan since 2002. He will not be the last. The Canadian mission in lawless southern Afghanistan is the most dangerous the armed forces have undertaken since the Korean War. More casualties are inevitable.

Yet Gen. Hillier is passionately convinced that Canada is doing the right thing over there. Yesterday he visited The Globe and Mail's editorial board to talk about why we are in Afghanistan and why Canadians should support the military. His key message: Wake up, folks. It's a hairy world out there and, like it or not, Canada is involved.

Gen. Hillier is an impressive figure in every way: plainspoken, funny, passionate about his job and smart as a whip. He's a mechanic's son from Newfoundland who rose through the ranks to lead the Canadian Forces as Chief of the Defence Staff. His job is really three jobs.

First, he must guide the complex operations of the forces, which operate in 19 countries around the world and do everything from vaccinating children in Africa to hunting down Taliban terrorists in Afghanistan to fighting floods and snowstorms here at home. Second, he must lead the transformation of the military from an underfunded, underequipped Cold War relic designed for repelling a Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe to a modern force that can rebuild failed states and fight insurgents in places such as Afghanistan. Third, he must persuade Canadians that the forces are a vital part of what makes Canada what it is, as necessary to our sense of self as multiculturalism or medicare.

The third job may be the hardest. Few Canadians list rebuilding the military as a national priority. A recent poll showed that many have doubts about Canada's involvement in Afghanistan. Gen. Hillier thinks that after "a decade of darkness" for the military, marked by cutbacks, low morale and scandals like the Somalia affair, it's high time for Canadians to take ownership of their military and become engaged with the men and women who defend their freedoms. "We have become dis-owned, abandoned, divorced by the population of Canada," he says bluntly. How true, and how wrong. If there were any time the military needed and deserved public support, it is now in its hour of danger. The opposite is equally true. In these dangerous times, Canadians need their military.

That's not always obvious to many of us. As Gen. Hillier puts it, we live in a "fat and easy country," prosperous, stable and free. It's easy to think we can seal ourselves off from the perils of the world. We can't, of course. The general calls it "myopic and navel-gazing" to think so. In an interconnected modern world, it is impossible just to put up a wall and say that's not our problem, that's not our fight. Al-Qaeda has Canada on its hit list, he notes, and it'sfolly to think terrorists will pass us by because we're nice.

That's one important reason why Canada is in Afghanistan. The devastated country was once the home base of the Taliban and al-Qaeda. Both organizations are attempting a comeback -- starting in southern Afghanistan, where Canadian troops are deployed. In Gen. Hillier's words, "If the Taliban do overwhelm the fledgling [Afghan] government because the international community abandons them, as they were abandoned in 1992 by the international community, the Taliban will be back in, will control the southern part of Afghanistan, will give support to al-Qaeda and other ideologically similar groups . . . and allow them to recruit, prepare and plan around the world and hide, and project their violence around the world. That will directly affect Canada."

But self-preservation is not the only reason to be in Afghanistan. Canadians are also there to protect the weak and vulnerable. Afghans have been through invasion, civil war and dictatorship. They desperately need outside help to get back on their feet. After his time in the country, Gen. Hillier says he is convinced that most Afghans want Canadians and other internationals to provide the security they need in order to rebuild. With Canadian help, he says, "maybe you can get security to a level where you don't risk getting killed every time you go shopping for food or maybe you can get security to a level where medical clinics can be built . . . so children don't die before the age of 5 in a 25 per cent range."

The two missions, protecting Afghans and fighting terrorists, go hand in hand. It's silly to say that Canadians are in Afghanistan just to kill terrorists at Washington's behest. It's equally wrong to say that they should be there only as peacekeepers and nation-builders. They are there both to fight terrorists and to nation-build. Afghans won't have a prayer of rebuilding their country unless the terrorists can be kept at bay. And the terrorists won't be kept at bay unless Afghans can rebuild their country. Only when they have a functioning government, police force, army and economy will their society be strong enough to resist the predations of the Taliban and its cohorts. This is one of those cases in which doing the right thing for them is also doing the right thing for us.

"The minute they no longer need us, we've got to be out of there," says Gen. Hillier. Until then, Canadians should back the Chief of the Defence Staff and the men and women of the Canadian Forces as they fight the good fight in Afghanistan.

There are some (many? most?) members of Army.ca who want to pigeon-hole the Good Grey Globe as a Liberal rag – maybe, but if they are then this is a time when ‘we’ (the army/military community) ought to get behind the views of that Liberal rag.

 
Although I am in agreement with most of your posts Edward, in this case I would say we should be getting behind the views of General Hillier, and assist him in getting these views out through as manny channels as possible.

For those Army.ca members who have the privilage, make sure your MP (of whatever party) is appriased of this editorial, and all members should discuss this with as many people as we have in our circles of friends and associates. "Word on the street" does have a big impact, lets use it.
 
Back
Top