Disability Awards: Debating the System (merged)

[Takeniteasy]

We should all read the Veterans Charter and the programs and services that are included. I find it interesting that the One Lump Payment/Or taken over instalments is worded as a Non-economical benefit for injuries suffered while on duty. That is key in this argument ( Non-economical ) http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=information-canadian-forces/services-benefits/disability-benefits

What would the value of a pain and suffering be? Certainly not $270,000 ( for our most seriously ill and injured). The payment is also adjusted annually for cost of living so should anyone who gets a "one time payment" be annually compensated for the increase? Is someone who suffered serious injury in the 90's while on duty better off at the time? No way, just ask Maj Bruce Henwood (retired) about that. It took his and a few others efforts to bring parody to compensation for all ranks who suffer similar injuries. The debate is still ongoing..

2+2

Veteran receiving %100 or less disability ( lets say a bilateral above knee amputtee ) $4500 monthly tax free
4500 X 12 = 54,000 annually  X that by 10 years = $540,000 if they receive for 20 years $1, 080,000

Compared to:
2500 X 12 = 30,000 annually  X that by 10 years = $300,000 if they receive for 20 years $600,000
500 X 12 = 6000 annually  X that by 10 years = 60,000 if they receive for 20 years $120,000 (close to  half of what someone gets for %100

Reverse that with the Max total for pain and suffering:
$270,000 / 20 years = $13,500 / by 12 = $1125 a month.... ( decide for yourself on the pain and suffering)

My case $123.00 X 12 = $1476.00 annually X that by 10 years = $14,760 by 20 years = $29,520 X 30 years if I make it = $44,280 ( that does not include the annual adjustment for cost of living/ I have received this for 8 years now %5 )
I am still able to access medical or rehab programs if my condition warrents it. Medical or rehab programs are offered no matter if you fall in the before or after 2006.

** Remember the "Disability Award" ( One time payment-or the old Pension ) is for Pain and Suffering that is NON-ECONOMICALLY related.

Like most government webpages you really have to look hard through all the layers to actually find what it is you are looking for.

Here you can go and find out what types of Disability Benefits there are http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=information-canadian-forces/services-benefits/disability-benefits#what-are

You can read what types of Finacial Benefits there are here http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=information-canadian-forces/services-benefits/financial-benefits
Earning Loss Benefit is only while you are in a rehabilitation or vocational program.

So the Canadian Forces includes for Veterans a "Canadian Forces Income Support" payment that is taxable.

We all have to make the decision based on our own circumstances.

Andrew

 

[dogger1936]

I wonder if my severe PTSD and MDD would be considered "serious"? Somehow I see serious as at least 3 missing limbs. Thoughts?

 

[ArmyRick]

3 x missing limbs and a copy of your complete CAT and ultrasound full body scan that you willing had done at time of enrollment to prove beyond any doubt that these injuries were not already there upon enrollment. 

 

[dogger1936]

3 x missing limbs and a copy of your complete CAT and ultrasound full body scan that you willing had done at time of enrollment to prove beyond any doubt that these injuries were not already there upon enrollment.

Oh your talking about the appeal! your forgot the lawyer you need! ;D

In all seriousness I really would like to know their definition of a serious injury.

 

[mariomike]

In all seriousness I really would like to know their definition of a serious injury.

This might help:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/96607/post-972749.html#msg972749

 

[dogger1936]

See its the wording mike. that link is talking about catastrophic yet the enhanced is saying serious. Personally I think taking 10 pills a day to stand up right not snap and go to sleep would be considered. 

 

[mariomike]

See its the wording mike. that link is talking about catastrophic yet the enhanced is saying serious. Personally I think taking 10 pills a day to stand up right not snap and go to sleep would be considered.

It certainly would be if it were up to me, Dogger. There is lots of Personal Injury info online, I have read a lot of it, but it's non-military.

 

[57Chevy]

In all seriousness I really would like to know their definition of a serious injury.

Definitions of serious injury on the Web:Link

•Any injury that will likely result in mortality (50 CFR 216.3).
www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/glossary.htm

•Any injury which: (1) requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date the injury was received; (2) results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); (3) causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; (4 ...
www.fs.fed.us/r5/fire/aviation/terminology

•Injuries that result in one or more of the following conditions:
www.airsafe.com/events/define.htm

•An injury which is sustained by a person in an accident and which:
www.castc.org.cn/danger/getfile.asp

•A Serious Injury is defined as a claim with an STD, LTD, or Fatal benefit payment in the period consisting of the month of injury or the following 3 months that has at least one of the following:
www2.worksafebc.com/Topics/YoungWorker/Statistics.asp

•A serious injury is an injury that may require months of rehabilitation or have the ability to incapacitate the policyholder. Only after the attending physician and the insurer's medical consultant have come to a consensus shall a serious injury be said to exist.
www.international-medical-insurance.com/information/key-terms-and-definitions.php

                        (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)
                      _______________________________________________________

Now I am wondering if Veterans Affairs takes these definations into consideration,
Or do they go by their own definition scribbled into the sand pie ?

 

[mariomike]

Serious Injury sounds like what is otherwise known as "Critical Injury":
http://wx.toronto.ca/intra/hr/policies.nsf/9fff29b7237299b385256729004b844b/7f68d1e39bec88878525776100619986?OpenDocument

 

[the 48th regulator]

I wonder if my severe PTSD and MDD would be considered "serious"? Somehow I see serious as at least 3 missing limbs. Thoughts?

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=dispen/2006tod/ch_21_2006

Old Charter 1995

Table To Article 21.02 - Assessment of Stress and Anxiety Disorders

New Charter 2006

Guidelines for Assessment of the Stress and Anxiety Disorders (including PTSD)


I find using the two, helps you figure out where you are at.  Do not focus on the wording, i.e "Severe" as this is where we are getting tripped up.  Focus on what you are capable of doing, in other words your function.  That is what VAC looks at, and why we end up losing in the end.  Use the same language, and thought process as they do.

Function, Adaptability, Daily living, Impairment level......etc.

Our degree of "Severe" differs Greatly with VAC's idea of Severe.  We look at how much we have suffered, based on the "Severity" of the description, they look at how they can compensate based what we have lost.

So that being said, this is what they define as severe;

Table 21.1 – Loss of Function - Thought and Cognition

    * Persistent incoherent speech; or
    * Persistent frank or bizarre delusions with no insight; or
    * Persistent hallucinations; or
    * Disorientated in all spheres.

Table 21.2 – Loss of Function – Emotion, Behaviour and Coping (Adaptability)

    *  Persistent episodes of mood elevation alternating rapidly with depressed mood. (Rapid Cycling)
    * Serious homicidal attempts; or
    * Eating disorder with maintenance of body weight at less than 70% of expected.
    * Marked regression in response to stress; or
    * Psychosis (greater than 24 hours duration) in response to stress.

Loss of Function – Activities of Daily Living

    * Totally dependent on caregiver for basic activities of daily living (transfers*, locomotion, eating, bathing and/or grooming).

Table 21.4 – Other Impairment – Treatment Needs

    * Continuous treatment. Institutional care.


So, of the four tables, I have pulled the Severe definition, according to VAC.

Do  you fall under any of them?

dileas

tess

 

[dogger1936]

21.2 all except homicidal attempts.

So there we have it. No way I get anything without attempting to kill myself ( and only if it's deemed serious enough)

 

[Nemo888]

I read in the paper today that comparing a military injury that nets a 30k to 40k VAC award would usually cost a civvie employer over 300,000$. Hopefully that provides a little perspective into how penny pinching VAC is. We aren't asking for much. Just what's fair.

Here is the link Regulator:

"The legion wants veterans' disability payouts to match general damages and awards for workers disabled on the job, which averages $329,000, White said."

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/11/17/16188411.html

 

[the 48th regulator]

I read in the paper today that comparing a military injury that nets a 30k to 40k VAC award would usually cost a civvie employer over 300,000$. Hopefully that provides a little perspective into how penny pinching VAC is. We aren't asking for much. Just what's fair.

Links please,

As this will help all of us.

dileas

tess

 

[wildman0101]

Smoke n Mirror's
Just my 2cents

Scoty B

Contact Info

Mike Blais

905-357-3306

Warning Order
To members of Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest, Saturday, 6 November, 2010
  Mike Blais Rcr Cfds November 17 at 1:44pm Reply • Report

Big announcement proves to be smoke and mirrors, designed to conceal the fact that our troops are getting mistreated in quantum dimensions through the lump sum.

Our duty remains the constant, I have no doubt we shall have to mobilize again if we are to speak up for our troops over this issue. Please keep this in mind when you are talking to your friends and stand by.

Veterans Minister Blackburn’s line in the Sand

Perhaps it is appropriate Minister Blackburn chose to use the phrase drawing a line in the sand when recently describing his government’s refusal to address the New Veterans Charter’s Lump Sum award. The battlefields of Afghanistan are arid, the sands Canadian soldiers have trod upon these past nine years have truly been bloodied with Canadian sacrifice. 152 two valiant soldiers have been slain in Afghanistan. Bullets, RPGs and homemade improvised explosive devices have wounded hundreds, perhaps thousands, of our troops. The Taliban’s weapon of choice, the IED, is particularly vicious, designed to create as many terrible injuries as possible. Our soldiers have sustained multiple amputations and very serious injuries as the consequence.

These are the veterans who will be subject to the lower standard created by Minister Blackburn’s line in the sand.

As primary organizer of the Canadian Veterans National Day of Protest conducted on November 6th, I can assure Canadians that the Lump Sum issue is THE primary motivational factor. Veterans have a sacred duty to those to whom we have passed the torch, it is our responsibility to ensure the wounded possess the appropriate standard of care/economic stability should they be repatriated with life altering injuries.

Minister Blackburn claims we who stood up for our troops on November 6th are uninformed, that we do not understand the complexities of the New Veterans Charter.

Untrue!

Veterans have heard Major Mark Campbell, Colonel Patrick Stogran and countless others who shall remain nameless until they are no longer bound by military protocols. We have heard the wives, the families, indeed, these stories of unnecessary hardship have only added to our commitment to resolve this unjust situation.

I would quote Major Mark Campbell, who bravely spoke out in the aftermath of the first national day of protest. Major Campbell lost both of his legs fighting to erase another line drawn in the sand. “Those of us who are severely disabled are still looking at about a 40-per-cent reduction in our income, compared to the old pension system. Does that seem like a good deal for a guy who's got no legs?"

Does it? Is Major Campbell also uninformed?

These numbers proposed are also exaggerated and disingenuously cross the line between a Veterans Affairs Pension and the LTD disability program that all soldiers are forced to purchase. The VAC pension is a tax free, non-economic award based on the degree of pain and suffering and the consequences it bears on his post-injury life. It is separate from the 75% wage replacement policy! The pensions comprising the 58000 dollars Minister Blackburn boasts are NOT, unlike VAC, tax-free! This real sum equates roughly to the Pre-NVC pension awarded to MCpl. Paul Franklin.

Mcpl Franklin’s monthly award continues for life, a poignant demonstration of the historic trust between Canada and our soldiers during times of war. The recently proposed 1000 dollar catastrophic award, the ELB, CPP disability and the SISIP LTD loss replacement payments all cease at the age of 65.

Must I remind Canadians OUR veterans are STILL severely disabled? Must I remind our government that their responsibilities to these veterans do not cease at 65, but when they die? Just what do the conservatives expect these catastrophically injured veterans to do when over half of their income has been eliminated? Get a job at Walmart?

Reality check! Veterans pension only.

Two soldiers, one who fought valiantly on the crest of Hill 187 in Korea, 1953, the other who fought just as valiantly in the Panjawai Valley, 2007. Both are twenty-five years of age, sustained injuries commensurate with a full VAC pain and suffering pensions. Each has a lovely wife, a happy child, both live to the age of 85. Over the course of their lives, the Korean veteran received slightly over two million dollars. His wife and child were eligible for special programs/educational support.

The veteran of the Afghanistan war receives… 276 thousand dollars.

Is this how a conservative government honours the special covenant between nation and soldier, those who would offer life and limb for Canada? Has our government become uncaring, dispassionate, desensitized to the needs of our veterans who have experienced great hardship, pain and suffering? Shall we, Canadians who believe in justice, stand idle and complacent when our government willfully implements a much lower standard for those to whom we have passed the torch?

I think not!

I think we have just begun to fight, that our cause is just!

Should the conservative government fail to stand up for our troops, veterans will accept their responsibility to those who serve. We shall organize and we shall diligently seek to elect a party that will support our troops during the next election!

Lest we Forget!

Michael L Blais CD
Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy, CVNDOP 2010



website's to check-out
http://homecomingvets.wordpress.com/2010/11/18/veterans-incensed-at-latest-vac-backtracking-on-public-promises-both-versions-captured-here

http://njnnetwork.com/2010/11/veterans-minister-backtracks-on-benefits-3-days-after-remembrance-day/


Enphasis on the difference between old charter and new
Two soldiers, one who fought valiantly on the crest of Hill 187 in Korea, 1953, the other who fought just as valiantly in the Panjawai Valley, 2007. Both are twenty-five years of age, sustained injuries commensurate with a full VAC pain and suffering pensions. Each has a lovely wife, a happy child, both live to the age of 85. Over the course of their lives, the Korean veteran received slightly over two million dollars. His wife and child were eligible for special programs/educational support.

The veteran of the Afghanistan war receives… 276 thousand dollars.
Scoty B

 

[CombatDoc]

as i am not even remotely educated beyond website info don't take any of this PTSD;.........

PTSD is a grey matter..no pun intended.

PTSD should not be a serious injury if treated at first signs
however 1st signs of PTSD are Physical signs of stress injury common sense would allow for quick recover with peer support
if treated quickly with intensive counseling and with psychological methods that address each case of PTSD the life impact of the illness should be minimal and diagnosed as minimal.
However if PTSD is left untreated and becomes agitated by further stresses related and unrelated to the initial traumatic experience/s a psychotic elevation of the symptoms may arise and this would require psychiatric treatment as well as the psychological counseling.

to consider PTSD as serious it would be left untreated for a very long period of time and perhaps reassemble syphilis in it final stages of mutation

other factors that may bring discussion for serious PTSD injury would be side effect injuries. drug treatment plans resulting in NMD NMS neurological malignant syndrome/disorder. NMS is a mental impairment attributed to intense side effects of anti psychotic treatment. although 1% of anti psychotic treatment plans have resulted in NMS
NMS affects both the mental and physical functions of the body because it is severe brain damage. in most reported case of NMS life expectancy is 48-72 hours. there may be consideration for level of brain function impairment attributed to anti psychotic drugs that do not result in NMS. However there is no link to NMS and PTSD and they are treated separately. Hope this helps

If you are not "even remotely educated beyond website info", then why post on such an emotional topic?  What you have listed above is a jumbled mishmash of internet clippings, and frankly, is neither helpful nor accurate.

 

[OldSolduer]

as i am not even remotely educated beyond website info don't take any of this PTSD;.........

PTSD is a grey matter..no pun intended.

PTSD should not be a serious injury if treated at first signs
however 1st signs of PTSD are Physical signs of stress injury common sense would allow for quick recover with peer support
if treated quickly with intensive counseling and with psychological methods that address each case of PTSD the life impact of the illness should be minimal and diagnosed as minimal.
However if PTSD is left untreated and becomes agitated by further stresses related and unrelated to the initial traumatic experience/s a psychotic elevation of the symptoms may arise and this would require psychiatric treatment as well as the psychological counseling.

to consider PTSD as serious it would be left untreated for a very long period of time and perhaps reassemble syphilis in it final stages of mutation

other factors that may bring discussion for serious PTSD injury would be side effect injuries. drug treatment plans resulting in NMD NMS neurological malignant syndrome/disorder. NMS is a mental impairment attributed to intense side effects of anti psychotic treatment. although 1% of anti psychotic treatment plans have resulted in NMS
NMS affects both the mental and physical functions of the body because it is severe brain damage. in most reported case of NMS life expectancy is 48-72 hours. there may be consideration for level of brain function impairment attributed to anti psychotic drugs that do not result in NMS. However there is no link to NMS and PTSD and they are treated separately. Hope this helps

Maybe you should stay in your arcs of fire.

 

[57Chevy]

Morton,
There is an entire thread on Medak here
(Some you may know)
An interesting read I might add.
Also for further reading THE MEDAK POCKET CASE STUDY

 

[OldSolduer]

Gnr Morton - I hereby apologize for my very nasty comment. I've sent you a PM. I was with 2 VP at that time too.

 

[aesop081]

I understand the issue and agree that vets today get the short end. That being said, this part had me laughing :

we shall diligently seek to elect a party that will support our troops during the next election!

Good luck with that one. The Liberals talk a bit game as the oposition because people have already forgotten that they were the ones who created this monster in the first place.

What about the NDP, you say............NDP means "Not Destined for Power" and you can imagine the damge they will cause to anything related to the military.

Greens ?.........Yeah right..........

Ellecting another party will not do anything. The solution lies with public opinion and they have a short attention span. By the time the next ellection rolls around, vets will no longer be the "cause du jour".........

 

[Rifleman62]

Auditor-General to examine veterans'pay

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Auditor+General+examine+veterans/3949160/story.html

Thursday, Dec. 9, 2010

Auditor-General Sheila Fraser will investigate the New Veterans Charter and the lump-sum payments that became a flashpoint for growing numbers of wounded soldiers returning from Afghanistan.

Ms. Fraser confirmed her planned audit in a Dec. 7 letter to Liberal Senator Percy Downe, who pressed her office for an audit since studies came to light that predicted the new lump-sum disability payments would mean less money for veterans and save up to $40-million a year.

"I'm concerned this became a cost-saving exercise rather than a service to veterans," Mr. Downe said.

In the letter, Ms. Fraser said the issue "is an important one" for her office and auditors responsible for Veterans Affairs are planning an audit on "aspects" of the charter. Her office expects to deliver the report on the audit in the fall of 2012. The Harper government has been under fire for months, facing accusations that veterans have been shortchanged on benefits.