Dinner with PM a waste of time: Williams

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

How Trudeau'esque of you 

h, I suppose BC's forests are hers, and alberta's oil is hers, but our oil isnt.About the vote rigging, the difference was 7000 and there was vote rigging> I dont know how many ballots were in the boxes, so who knows ? You obviously wanted us, as the canadian government subsidized smallwoods Confederate association. A recent report also showed successionism on the rise. Anyways, back to the said topic

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

they have mismanaged or taken away all our resources, not to mention some neighboring provinces take advatage of us.

How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.

 

[Good2Golf]

How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.

There are some who can prove it was all Toronto's fault...it usually is.  ;D

 

[midgetcop]

There are some who can prove it was all Toronto's fault...it usually is.  ;D

**expresses Toronto-angst**

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

How very "Modern Canadian" of you........even though I'm the one who signs a stupid deal, somehow I get to blame everyone but me.

Dont call me canadian.

Smallwood signed it, and Newfoundlanders only supported it because they wrongfully associated self rule with the depression and wanted better living conditions

 

[Reccesoldier]

In my view Newfoundland has every reason to be upset. Newfoundland , like Alberta, depends largely on Natural Resources

So far so good.

and it seems since we joined Canada they have mismanaged or taken away all our resources,

Oops, now it's off into la-la land.  The agreement under which NL joined Confederation is a little thing now called the Constitution act of 1867.  This document is very stodgy and dry, there's not a whole lot of interesting verbiage in it like the US Constitution, not any great sweeping "We the people" or "life liberty and the persuit of Happiness" statements but what is does do, specifically and succinctly is divide up those things which are the realm of Provincial "ownership" if you will and those things which are "Federal" ownership.  

Really if the people and leadership of NL couldn't be bothered to read the document as far as Section 6 Article 91(12) which specifically gives the fishery to the federal government or conversely The Newfoundland Act which states in part

"The Province of Newfoundland and Labrador shall comprise the same territory as at the date of Union, that is to say, the island of Newfoundland and the islands adjacent thereto"

*emphasis mine

Then you have no one to blame but your own people.  Newfoundlanders one and all. 

not to mention some neighboring provinces take advatage of us.

So because the Province of NL negotiated a poor deal with regards to resources that it does own that is "another province taking advantage"?  Dear me place your blame where it belongs Proud Newfoundlander, right there at home in St Johns.

So, here we are with one major resource left and now the government decides to take that too. So, we get upset, because its being taken away, and because its non-renewable, it isnt going to be there forever.

 Again read the document, NL does not, has not, and indeed did not ever, own the sea or any of the resources in it.

Harper also made a direct promise to us, in parliament, that we should get control of our oil, and now he renegged on the promise. We could also really use that money, as we are the poorest Province in Confederation.

 

This has been done to death, so I won't respond to it again.  I'm on the record in this topic on it if you care to look it up.

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

No offence, your probably (maybe not) some guy living out a long ways from here.


Well, Quebec said we couldnt transport power over their territory unless they got most of it, so our hands were tied.

 

[Reccesoldier]

No offence, your probably (maybe not) some guy living out a long ways from here.


Well, Quebec said we couldnt transport power over their territory unless they got most of it, so our hands were tied.

Where I live has nothing to do with it.  If Alberta's oil had been off shore they would not have had ownership of it.  Youkon, NWT and Nunavut will not "own" any of the vast oil and gas reserves located under the arctic ocean, the stuff under dry land is theirs except for the fact that Territories are not considered the same as provinces as per the Constitution act of 1867.  BC doesn't own their fishery. 

The law is the law and the Constitution is the grand daddy of them all.

There is always a work around, oceanic cables have been used for decades longer than Churchill falls has been around. 

I'm not a lawyer but what stops NL from persuing an alternate method of delivery now?  Hell, just start looking hard at it and watch how quickly Quebec starts talking about renegotiating the deal rather than being cut off.

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

Ok, first it isnt as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we werent a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.

Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec

 

[Reccesoldier]

Ok, first it isnt as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we werent a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.

Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec

there are two things you need to do in my opinion. 

1. Blame the people who signed a bad deal, not the ones that negotiated a good one in their self-interest.  By the way how do you think that a foreign country would have treated NL any better?  :rofl:

2. Learn the Constitution.  For crying out loud if you are going to complain about something do it right.  The Constitution of 1867 says NOTHING about human rights.  It makes (as I've already said) short work out of the legal arangements, it accounts for the division of powers, the branches and makeup of government the provision of elections and terms boundaries of the provinces etc but you have to wait untill 1982 to get to the Canadian Charter of rights and Freedoms, oops sorry, in 1960 The Canadian Bill of Rights was written... but it has since been replaced by the charter. 

 

[helpup]

Ok, first it isn't as easy as using cable, its very expensive and difficult. It was partly smallwoods fault, he was no lawyer. But Quebec clearly took advantage of us. It may have been different if we were not a province, it may have been a deal between country and country, not province and province.

Pfft, the constitution really needs fixing and well put out, and I would call it garbage if it didnt guarantee rights for creeds, race, sex and so on We really need parliamentry reform and less centralization. Confederation sucks if you're not Ontario and Quebec

Partly Smallwoods fault ?

I have been to Churchill and will be the first to say after I was amazed at the place that NFLD got screwed. but you just stated that it was partly Smallwoods fault , I am guessing you are inferring that other then that small part he got taken advantage of.  Trouble is elected officials are voted in and WE the people vote them in warts and all. The end result falls on to ......... well everyone in the Province who voted for him, didn't vote.  As for a difference if you were not "just a Province". I don't buy that for a second. Events at the time were leading up to being a part of Canada, the US or staying with England. One or the other as NFLD did not have the ability to go an independent nation ( IMHO ) England was fresh from an expensive war and trying time rebuilding. America was looking else way and well Canada was right beside you.

Could you of avoided joining, I have not doubt I know allot of NFLDers and their characters. But honestly at the time and for the present it was and IMHO the best option.  I dint agree with the Fed representation formula but it is what it is. I don't like that the Fisheries are messed up, that Churchill falls benefit Quebec more then the originators. But life tends to be a pendulum and all things come around.

I am from NS and hey at one time they were the powerhose of a new country called Canada. Not anymore and for the Gas/ oil and fish stuff they have their own problems to look at. But as for better off on our own thoughts... nah that is not really there. Mind you seeind a Super Atlantic Province would be an interesting idea. \

Bye the bye I will be the first to point out that there is a huge amount the the CF that is from the Maritimes or was when I joined. That in my neck of the woods is starting to level out. But one thing I was always proud of is the ability of those Down Easterner's to perform in the day to day service of Their Country

 

[X-mo-1979]

Oops, now it's off into la-la land.  The agreement under which NL joined Confederation is a little thing now called the Constitution act of 1867.  This document is very stodgy and dry, there's not a whole lot of interesting verbiage in it like the US Constitution, not any great sweeping "We the people" or "life liberty and the persuit of Happiness" statements but what is does do, specifically and succinctly is divide up those things which are the realm of Provincial "ownership" if you will and those things which are "Federal" ownership.  

Really?1867?
I thought it was the term's of union in 1949.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Really?1867?
I thought it was the term's of union in 1949.

the NL Act refers directly to the Constitution Act of 1867 or if you prefer The British North America Act.  that is the document that breaks down who "owns" what, and that was the source of Proud_Newfoundlander's bitching.

APPLICATION OF THE CONSTITUTION ACTS

3. The Constitution Acts, 1867 to 1940, shall apply to the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in the same way, and to the like extent as they apply to the provinces heretofore comprised in Canada, as if the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador had been one of the provinces originally united except in so far as varied by these Terms and except such provisions as are in terms made or by reasonable intendment may be held to be specially applicable to or only to affect one or more and not all of the provinces originally united.

 

[X-mo-1979]

No need for name calling.
Is it possiable to have a discussion around here lately?

Thanks for quote however.

 

[Reccesoldier]

No need for name calling.
Is it possiable to have a discussion around here lately?

Thanks for quote however.

I called no one names.

 

[xo31@711ret]

I first & foremost call myself a PROUD (serving) Canadian of 24+years in uniform. I am also damn proud to be a Newfoundlander and still call it 'home', even though I have been gone since '82 when I left for Cornwallis. Read your history on Churchill and Newfoundland. I am no fan of Joey, but in a nutshell, Smallwood did look into trying to run a line east through Labrador and across the straight to the northern pensinsula of the island; way too expensive and no takers. Joey had no choice but to make a deal with Quebec.
Do I blame Quebec? nope, they got a great deal. And I'm bettin' Danny or successive NL premiers won't (have to) make such a sh**ty deal again.

 

[Proud_Newfoundlander]

I suppose the constitution in 1982 was all in my head. I believe we had a "terms" of Union on as well
Im not proud to be  a canadian, and if we could manage economically quite well on our own I would say seperate, but to seperate npw isnt very smart.

Newfoundland is part of Canada now, so might as well make the best of it. I find so interesting how willing some province are willing to take money, but so unwillign to give it once they become rich, or "have provinces" as they say

 

[Reccesoldier]

I suppose the constitution in 1982 was all in my head. I believe we had a "terms" of Union on as well

Have you actually read any of what I've posted here? 

The constitution act of 1982 is the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It has nothing to do with the subject of your angst.  As I've already pointed out the real document referred to in the Newfoundland Act of 1949 was the British North America Act also known as The Constitution Act of 1867 or more widely as "The Constitution" though our constitution is not a single document as you may have gathered from the preceding paragraph.  Our Constitution was repatriated in 1982, but it wasn't created then.

I'm not proud to be  a canadian,

  Goody for you.  So you decided to come to a site on the web filled with soldiers, sailors, Airmen and patriots (but I repeat myself) and complain without ever availing yourself of any real knowledge of the subject?  Well done.

Newfoundland is part of Canada now, so might as well make the best of it. I find so interesting how willing some province are willing to take money, but so unwillign to give it once they become rich, or "have provinces" as they say

:rofl: No doubt the irony of your statement escapes you.

I'd like to take this moment to point out that NL will very shortly be a "have province" and if the spendthrift government of Ontario doesn't get it's fiscal act together it will become a "have not province" and you and the rest of NL can start paying for Dalton McGinty's liberal spending habits.  Generous welfare programs, corporate bailouts, grants to industry, safe injection sites and all the rest.  Welcome to Confederation Proud_Newfoundlander

 

[Franko]

Back on topic troops.

Proud_Newfoundlander ... If your resorting to name calling, telling other members to STFU etc, I'll suggest that you take some time off the site and relax.

If you keep it up you'll be on the ramp....for trolling.

The Army.ca Staff