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I'm not liking your use of "proposed" ie if the boss doesn't like it then things get cut.
Defence: $12.7-billion infusion ;D
- Thread starter big bad john
- Start date
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I don't doubt the defence Minister's commitment to whatever the plan says, but there is too much political risk undertaken by the cabinet with spending 13 billion on defence which is somehow tied to creating expeditionary forces. For example, this morning I was handed a flyer downtown, which was titled 'Smart Kids, Not Smart Bombs" and which then outlined a "citizens action plan" to pressure the government to fund other "more important priorities that Canadians really want." I was amazed with the speed of reaction and the ability to rapidly mobilize that these groups have.
How is a politician supposed to respond to slogans like the above? We all know how rational and reasoned decision makers would, but that automatically excludes politics. Nothing is carved in stone in politics, except health care and equality rights- 2 of the things that Canadians apparently "really want."
As an aside, it appears that access to a national daycare program is now emerging as the latest objective of "true equality." Watch and shoot to see who has more influence.
How is a politician supposed to respond to slogans like the above? We all know how rational and reasoned decision makers would, but that automatically excludes politics. Nothing is carved in stone in politics, except health care and equality rights- 2 of the things that Canadians apparently "really want."
As an aside, it appears that access to a national daycare program is now emerging as the latest objective of "true equality." Watch and shoot to see who has more influence.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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And continuing in the vein of curious coincidences and fortuitous timing:
Discussion about CF-18 upgrade at defense-aerospace.com
http://www.flightinternational.com/fi_issue/is_reg_comment.asp (posted by Duey)
Now, how might these influence Heavy Lift buys? Coupled with the previously mentioned moves by the Government and Bell at Montreal and Schwartz with Boeing?
Lockheed out, Bell, Boeing and Alenia in? - Bell 407/ Boeing CH47/ Alenia C27J?
Discussion about CF-18 upgrade at defense-aerospace.com
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.4308111.1089903978.QPadasOa9dUAAESlMZk&modele=jdc_34
http://www.flightinternational.com/fi_issue/is_reg_comment.asp (posted by Duey)
Now, how might these influence Heavy Lift buys? Coupled with the previously mentioned moves by the Government and Bell at Montreal and Schwartz with Boeing?
Lockheed out, Bell, Boeing and Alenia in? - Bell 407/ Boeing CH47/ Alenia C27J?
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Kirkhill said:
Ummm - and when has the navel-gazing, self-satisfied voting public ever given a damn about dead African kids, outside the rock events like Live-Aid that is? Our foreign aid levels are scandalously low for a wealthy country like Canada, and yet there is absolutely no constituency for raising them - not even from that sector producing these neat, feel-good lefty pamphlets. I guess solidarity with the poor of the world is trumped by more entitlements from the public purse.
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Well sure, $12-billion sounds like a lot of money but consider this:
$2.1 billion for Joint Support Ship pgm
$600 million for the MGS
$300 million for fixed-wing SAR aircraft
$5 billion for Sea King replacements
Total previously announced projects: $8 billion
Add to that an estimated $1-billion for the 5,000 new troops and you've got a lot less money spread out over five years.
The usual smoke and mirrors in other words
$2.1 billion for Joint Support Ship pgm
$600 million for the MGS
$300 million for fixed-wing SAR aircraft
$5 billion for Sea King replacements
Total previously announced projects: $8 billion
Add to that an estimated $1-billion for the 5,000 new troops and you've got a lot less money spread out over five years.
The usual smoke and mirrors in other words
- Reaction score
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- Points
- 1,160
GGBoy:
Perhaps we are confusing Budget with Projects.
AFAIK the projects that you listed had previously been allowed for within the standing budgets. The question rightly is, is this new money or just new projects. The sense that I have is that this is new money.
I hope I am right, we'll all see soon enough.
Perhaps we are confusing Budget with Projects.
AFAIK the projects that you listed had previously been allowed for within the standing budgets. The question rightly is, is this new money or just new projects. The sense that I have is that this is new money.
I hope I am right, we'll all see soon enough.
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We'll know for sure this afternoon but the leaked stuff sounds more like they are spinning a smaller cash amount by saying 13B to the forces but really some of that has been spent. Looking forward to hearing the truth over the next few days. Here's a clip from one article: (The rest of the article is non-military budget talk)
Sources say the more-than-$12-billion defence injection will be used to <recruit> 5,000 more soldiers and 3,000 additional reservists, providing them with an across-the-board pay hike of 6.5%. The initial down payment in new hires is expected to be about $250-million in the first year.
A total of $2.5-billion in new money is being earmarked for helicopters, sources say, and another $1.5-billion is expected to go toward filling the existing "shortfall" the defence department has been running due to previous budget cuts, the high cost of maintaining equipment and the rising costs of an increased number of military operations around the world.
Sources also note, however, that a portion of this overall injection has been announced previously to pay for new equipment
Source: National Post
Sources say the more-than-$12-billion defence injection will be used to <recruit> 5,000 more soldiers and 3,000 additional reservists, providing them with an across-the-board pay hike of 6.5%. The initial down payment in new hires is expected to be about $250-million in the first year.
A total of $2.5-billion in new money is being earmarked for helicopters, sources say, and another $1.5-billion is expected to go toward filling the existing "shortfall" the defence department has been running due to previous budget cuts, the high cost of maintaining equipment and the rising costs of an increased number of military operations around the world.
Sources also note, however, that a portion of this overall injection has been announced previously to pay for new equipment
Source: National Post
whiskey 601 said:
Well, i think Canadians generally support a boost in the military's budget. I have a english teacher in my school who is extremily anti American (one of those former protesters back in the day.) Her english 10 class gets taught about hiroshima and how the U.S. shouldnt have dropped the bomb. Even she admits that we should drop missile defence and give our military the money it deserves, and she supports it. Although, she is a dinosaur of the past.
- Reaction score
- 1,757
- Points
- 1,160
Here is the summary from the gc.ca website:
4 Strengthening National Defence
Budget 2005 introduces the largest increase in defence spending in 20 years, worth more than $12.8 billion in cash terms over five years.
This substantial increase in funding, which goes far beyond commitments made last year, will allow National Defence to better meet increasingly complex international challenges.
Examples of recent challenges for the military in Canada and abroad include:
Canada's efforts in the war on terrorism and in re-establishing peace and security in Afghanistan and Haiti.
Vital engineering, medical and basic support and relief to tsunami victims in Sri Lanka.
Responses to domestic emergencies and disasters, such as Hurricane Juan in Halifax and forest fires in British Columbia.
These recent missions and other contributions to international security have placed considerable demands on Canadian Forces personnel and resources. As the world changes, the role of the military must continue to change with it.
Over a five-year period, funding provided in Budget 2005 includes:
$3 billion to expand the Canadian Forces by 5,000 and the reserves by 3,000, delivering on the commitment in last year's Speech from the Throne.
$3.2 billion to strengthen military operations by improving training and operational readiness, enhancing military medical care, addressing critical supplies and repairs shortages, and repairing infrastructure.
$2.7 billion on a cash basis to acquire and operate new medium-capacity helicopters, trucks, utility aircraft and specialized facilities for Canada's elite anti-terrorism unit, JTF2.
$3.8 billion on a cash basis for further projects to support the objectives established for Canada's military in the upcoming International Policy Statement.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Cash basis: I think this means "go shopping" ASAP.
4 Strengthening National Defence
Budget 2005 introduces the largest increase in defence spending in 20 years, worth more than $12.8 billion in cash terms over five years.
This substantial increase in funding, which goes far beyond commitments made last year, will allow National Defence to better meet increasingly complex international challenges.
Examples of recent challenges for the military in Canada and abroad include:
Canada's efforts in the war on terrorism and in re-establishing peace and security in Afghanistan and Haiti.
Vital engineering, medical and basic support and relief to tsunami victims in Sri Lanka.
Responses to domestic emergencies and disasters, such as Hurricane Juan in Halifax and forest fires in British Columbia.
These recent missions and other contributions to international security have placed considerable demands on Canadian Forces personnel and resources. As the world changes, the role of the military must continue to change with it.
Over a five-year period, funding provided in Budget 2005 includes:
$3 billion to expand the Canadian Forces by 5,000 and the reserves by 3,000, delivering on the commitment in last year's Speech from the Throne.
$3.2 billion to strengthen military operations by improving training and operational readiness, enhancing military medical care, addressing critical supplies and repairs shortages, and repairing infrastructure.
$2.7 billion on a cash basis to acquire and operate new medium-capacity helicopters, trucks, utility aircraft and specialized facilities for Canada's elite anti-terrorism unit, JTF2.
$3.8 billion on a cash basis for further projects to support the objectives established for Canada's military in the upcoming International Policy Statement.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Cash basis: I think this means "go shopping" ASAP.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Breakdown is like this:
05-06 500M
06-07 600M
07-08 1.55B
08-09 4.5B
09-10 5.7B
Table 6.1
Budget 2005 Defence Funding (cash basis illustration)
05â “06 06â “07 07â “08 08â “09 09â “10 Total
Expand the Forces(5,000/3,000) 80 100 500 1,200 1,180 3,060
Operational sustainability of the Forces 420 500 600 800 900 3,220
New medium capacity helicopters, logistics trucks,
utility aircraft and JTF2 facility 0 0 338 1,232 1,187 2,757
Post Defence Policy Review investments 0 0 120 1,234 2,437 3,791
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 500 600 1 ,558 4,466 5,704 12,828
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget05/bp/bpc6e.htm
Mike.
05-06 500M
06-07 600M
07-08 1.55B
08-09 4.5B
09-10 5.7B
Table 6.1
Budget 2005 Defence Funding (cash basis illustration)
05â “06 06â “07 07â “08 08â “09 09â “10 Total
Expand the Forces(5,000/3,000) 80 100 500 1,200 1,180 3,060
Operational sustainability of the Forces 420 500 600 800 900 3,220
New medium capacity helicopters, logistics trucks,
utility aircraft and JTF2 facility 0 0 338 1,232 1,187 2,757
Post Defence Policy Review investments 0 0 120 1,234 2,437 3,791
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 500 600 1 ,558 4,466 5,704 12,828
http://www.fin.gc.ca/budget05/bp/bpc6e.htm
Mike.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Kirkhill said:
I hope you're right too, but I don't think so ... the last budget only mentioned the FWSAR, MGS and JSS projects and most of the cost was "back-loaded" onto future budgets. All of the projects I listed are long-term expenditures, to be included in DND (and therefore overall federal) budgets for several years to come. Therefore, most of this money has already been announced ...
- Reaction score
- 1,757
- Points
- 1,160
The big increases in the 2009-2011 time frame coincide with the MHP/JSS projected delivery dates and are at least 2 governments and 2 prime ministers away in terms of political time. This is a strange case of too much too late!!
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
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Defence: $12.7-billion infusion
By KENNY YUM
Wednesday, February 23, 2005
Updated at 4:07 PM EST
Globe and Mail Update
Ottawa - The Defence Department got a $12.7-billion infusion in Wednesday's budget that will boost its troop strength, buy new equipment and bring back the nut-and-bolts funding that was lost in previous cuts.
The money far surpasses previous Liberal promises, but it will have a long wait before most of the funding arrives.
In the budget, the Liberals announced $12.8-billion in funding over five years - its largest spending increase for the department in 20 years. Part of the money will be used in expanding its troops and $2.5-billion for new helicopters, aircraft and other vehicles.
Much of the funding recognizes and restores some of the cuts made to the Forces' budget in the past - to the tune of $3.2-billion over five years.
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"In an increasingly uncertain world, Canadians know that we must play our part and shoulder our share," Finance Minister Ralph Goodale said.
"This significant investment in our military means that we will be able to better meet our responsibilities abroad and protect our people at home."
But much of the money will be slow to arrive, with $1.1-billion of the cash coming in the next two fiscal years. At the end of the five-year funding plans, 2008 to 2010, the department will see $10.1-billion.
A total of $3-billion will be spent on boosting the size of the forces - 5,000 full time troops and 3,000 reserves. By the end of the five years, all troops should be in place.
New equipment such as helicopters and trucks will come from $2.7-billion while $3.2-billion will be spent on operational sustainability. This excludes equipment such as the Sea King replacements already announced.
The Liberals has no defined plans for almost 30 per cent of the funding - it set aside $3.8-billion for "new roles" for the military that will come apparent after the defence policy review.
"The shape of what that role should be is evolving, with a new National Security Policy released last April and a comprehensive international policy review soon to be presented," Mr. Goodale said.
The government committed in its Throne Speech to boost its regular forces and its reserves. During the election, the Liberals pledged to spend $2.5-billion to $3-billion over five years.
The budget also contained additional security measures, including:
$1-billion over five years for national security
$3.4 billion in foreign assistance funding for poor countries
© Copyright 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.
By KENNY YUM
Wednesday, February 23, 2005
Updated at 4:07 PM EST
Globe and Mail Update
Ottawa - The Defence Department got a $12.7-billion infusion in Wednesday's budget that will boost its troop strength, buy new equipment and bring back the nut-and-bolts funding that was lost in previous cuts.
The money far surpasses previous Liberal promises, but it will have a long wait before most of the funding arrives.
In the budget, the Liberals announced $12.8-billion in funding over five years - its largest spending increase for the department in 20 years. Part of the money will be used in expanding its troops and $2.5-billion for new helicopters, aircraft and other vehicles.
Much of the funding recognizes and restores some of the cuts made to the Forces' budget in the past - to the tune of $3.2-billion over five years.
Advertisements
"In an increasingly uncertain world, Canadians know that we must play our part and shoulder our share," Finance Minister Ralph Goodale said.
"This significant investment in our military means that we will be able to better meet our responsibilities abroad and protect our people at home."
But much of the money will be slow to arrive, with $1.1-billion of the cash coming in the next two fiscal years. At the end of the five-year funding plans, 2008 to 2010, the department will see $10.1-billion.
A total of $3-billion will be spent on boosting the size of the forces - 5,000 full time troops and 3,000 reserves. By the end of the five years, all troops should be in place.
New equipment such as helicopters and trucks will come from $2.7-billion while $3.2-billion will be spent on operational sustainability. This excludes equipment such as the Sea King replacements already announced.
The Liberals has no defined plans for almost 30 per cent of the funding - it set aside $3.8-billion for "new roles" for the military that will come apparent after the defence policy review.
"The shape of what that role should be is evolving, with a new National Security Policy released last April and a comprehensive international policy review soon to be presented," Mr. Goodale said.
The government committed in its Throne Speech to boost its regular forces and its reserves. During the election, the Liberals pledged to spend $2.5-billion to $3-billion over five years.
The budget also contained additional security measures, including:
$1-billion over five years for national security
$3.4 billion in foreign assistance funding for poor countries
© Copyright 2005 Bell Globemedia Publishing Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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Only 5 years away, so maybe only one PM and/or governemnt, I guess it will depend when the next election is...
Mike.
Mike.
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Well the conservaties were quick to say that they would not object to this budget.
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http://army.ca/forums/threads/27278.0.html
