DAG'ing (red, green, res vs reg - merged)

[Tetragrammaton]

The only potential down side to having your medical, social worker, and dental appointments too early is that they will most likely not be valid for the actual pre-training and deployment time frame. As for the rest of the paper work your reserve unit orderly room will need to sit down with you to make sure the required docs are updated and entered into the Human Resource Management System (HRMS). One aspect you may want to look into civvie side is your getting a notarized Last Will and Testament, Power of Attorney and Living Will. There are forms available through the military, but they are rather basic and depending on your own personal situation and complexity of your estate, I find them rather limited.

Other than that just make sure you recently passed your Battle Fitness Test or CF Expres Test.

Stay fit!

 

[brihard]

Last year I was RSM of a Total Force 350 member IRU for the G8/G20 Op CADENCE, which we built from the ground up from 18 P Res units, elements of 70 Comm Gp and 2 Svc Bn.  I share your pain!  Surprisingly, during the pre-deployment phase the overwhelming majority of my DAG REDs came from the Regular Force.

Out of curiosity sir, what were the big lessons learned that came out of that without or TBG for force generation? I know how it all got perceived at our level as one of the Sect Comds, but we never really heard how things went higher up, and how it might affect the next time we do something like that. I get the impression that a similar force generation concept (and TBG structure) looks set to be exercised for Ft Knox... Will there be noticeable changes at the level of individual units, or of Pl/Coy once we glom together?

 

[aesop081]

  Surprisingly, during the pre-deployment phase the overwhelming majority of my DAG REDs came from the Regular Force.

Well lets see, i was a Ref guy at the G8/G20.......my DAG was all fucked up . I was on the tail end of several OUTCAN deployment so my FA was expired, my 404s were expired. etc...........Yeah, being DAG RED, on its own doesn't mean too much. Of course, if i had been a reservist and not gone every second week, i might have been able to keep that stuff up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well lets see, i was a Ref guy at the G8/G20.......my DAG was all fucked up . I was on the tail end of several OUTCAN deployment so my FA was expired, my 404s were expired. etc...........Yeah, being DAG RED, on its own doesn't mean too much. Of course, if i had been a reservist and not gone every second week, i might have been able to keep that stuff up.

We don't need the bitter conjecture, and we can leave the Reg\ Res bullshit at the door.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Haggis]

Well lets see, i was a Ref guy at the G8/G20.......my DAG was all ****ed up . I was on the tail end of several OUTCAN deployment so my FA was expired, my 404s were expired. etc...........Yeah, being DAG RED, on its own doesn't mean too much. Of course, if i had been a reservist and not gone every second week, i might have been able to keep that stuff up.

Since your brought it up (and. clearly, you weren't one of mine) the majority were for what were deemed "preventable/fixable" items that should have been covered during unit and sub unit IBTS and DAG, such as handling tests, CBRN and FA as well as some medical isues such as arriving on a TCat or with expired innoculations.  Yes, there were BFT failures, too, equally split beteween Reg F and P Res.

My point was that the main effort of ensuring a deployable DAG status was towards the P Res.  The Reg F were "expected" to arrive 100% Good 2 Go and that wasn't the case.  The effort has to be spread around as many of my Reg F DAG REDs were critical members of my CSS element.  We fixed it, in the end, but not without substantial staff effort and a little bit of luck.

 

[Haggis]

Out of curiosity sir, what were the big lessons learned that came out of that without or TBG for force generation? I know how it all got perceived at our level as one of the Sect Comds, but we never really heard how things went higher up, and how it might affect the next time we do something like that. I get the impression that a similar force generation concept (and TBG structure) looks set to be exercised for Ft Knox... Will there be noticeable changes at the level of individual units, or of Pl/Coy once we glom together?

I'd say that the biggest lesson was that the effort required to DAG a Class A Reservist has to be expended BEFORE we decide to stand up a Task Force - not after.  It's imperative, in my view, that Class A Reservists  -and their chains of command - have to put more effort into achieving and maintaining a near-deployable PRV/DAG status.  There are somethings that are perishable and resource intensive to maintain, but the administrative stuff (i.e. PEN forms, Military Leave Action Plans, Will Certificates, I Cards, I Discs, 404s etc.) is the most overlooked.

The unfortunate thing about deploying Reservists is that we fail to learn from past lessons, particularly when it comes to administration.  It's been said that when we deploy Reservists we're not doing admin for Roto 6 were doing admin for Roto 0 for the sixth time.

 

[Rheostatic]

I'd say that the biggest lesson was that the effort required to DAG a Class A Reservist has to be expended BEFORE we decide to stand up a Task Force - not after.  It's imperative, in my view, that Class A Reservists  -and their chains of command - have to put more effort into achieving and maintaining a near-deployable PRV/DAG status.  There are somethings that are perishable and resource intensive to maintain, but the administrative stuff (i.e. PEN forms, Military Leave Action Plans, Will Certificates, I Cards, I Discs, 404s etc.) is the most overlooked.

The unfortunate thing about deploying Reservists is that we fail to learn from past lessons, particularly when it comes to administration.  It's been said that when we deploy Reservists we're not doing admin for Roto 6 were doing admin for Roto 0 for the sixth time.

Is it the reserve member's responsibility to maintain a green PRV? If so it would be handy to have a reference. Efforts to be proactive about keeping this document up to date are met with "Are you deploying? No? Then you don't need this." I'm willing to put in the effort, and I think others who want to be deployable would agree with me.

 

[dapaterson]

I can't speak for every unit in the CF, but all those I've been in start every September with a review, where you go visit pay, the OR, the mess and so on to make sure our admin is up-to-date - PEN forms; Silver Cross Designations; 404s; tax deductions at source and so on are all reviewed and updated where necessary.

 

[OldSolduer]

I can't speak for every unit in the CF, but all those I've been in start every September with a review, where you go visit pay, the OR, the mess and so on to make sure our admin is up-to-date - PEN forms; Silver Cross Designations; 404s; tax deductions at source and so on are all reviewed and updated where necessary.

And that is exactly what the WITG did on 6 Sep, except all the reps were at tables and the troops had all their paperwork done at that time.

 

[Haggis]

Is it the reserve member's responsibility to maintain a green PRV? If so it would be handy to have a reference. Efforts to be proactive about keeping this document up to date are met with "Are you deploying? No? Then you don't need this." I'm willing to put in the effort, and I think others who want to be deployable would agree with me.

Yes, it is the member's responsibility, supported and enabled by the chain of command and ASU/support base.  This is quite true, particularly for things like medical, dental and innoculations.  These cost the ASU/support base time and money which is usually charged back against an operation's fin code..  I, too have run into this.

I can't speak for every unit in the CF, but all those I've been in start every September with a review, where you go visit pay, the OR, the mess and so on to make sure our admin is up-to-date - PEN forms; Silver Memorial Cross Designations; 404s; tax deductions at source and so on are all reviewed and updated where necessary.

A slight correction for you. :-D

Some units are very, very good at this.  Others less so.  When you (as I did) are deploying a formed unit drawing from 20+ parent units it becomes quite obvious - very quickly - which units/brigades pay lip service to DAG/PRV and which give it due attention.

 

[dapaterson]

In a former life I worked on the Land Staff and saw national data.  Looking only at "pers who haven't paraded a year or more" as a metric of how well units keep records up-to-date, the quality of admin followed a clear line of deterioration; from the best down east to the worst out west, with 38 CBG an outlier of quality administration (second best in Canada, as I recall).

 

[Rheostatic]

I can't speak for every unit in the CF, but all those I've been in start every September with a review, where you go visit pay, the OR, the mess and so on to make sure our admin is up-to-date - PEN forms; Silver Cross Designations; 404s; tax deductions at source and so on are all reviewed and updated where necessary.

Agreed, but my gripe is that these updates don't always make it to the PRV, in particular things that don't get checked every year, like medicals, PFET, clearance etc.

A Class A soldier with an expired medical (and the corresponding big red box on their PRV) will be turned away by health services unless they already have a spot on an upcoming deployment (at least in my neck of the woods).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The kick in the nuts to most Reservists comes when they get called, are told they have to have their IBTS current, shooting, BTF, et al and work their asses off to get it done in time. Then they show up, are told it doesn't count, and we waste countless days and resources redoing the whole thing again. If they won't take the unit's word, quit wasting our time asking us to do it before we show up. If a person fails something the Unit should get saddled with the total expense to replace them.

 

[aesop081]

The kick in the nuts to most Reservists comes when they get called, are told they have to have their IBTS current, shooting, BTF, et al and work their asses off to get it done in time. Then they show up, are told it doesn't count,

Don't flatter yourself, this is not a reserves problem. This is a CF-wide problem. Guys in my former unit were having to redo-items on their PRV that were current, just because they were deploying on an operation.

 

[PMedMoe]

Don't flatter yourself, this is not a reserves problem. This is a CF-wide problem. Guys in my former unit were having to redo-items on their PRV that were current, just because they were deploying on an operation.

You're right, and don't think it's just as Res/Reg thing.  I've seen people do a BFT three times in one year before they were deployed.  Once with the unit (still current), one with the work-up unit (unnecessary) and one overseas.  Absolute bullshit.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't flatter yourself, this is not a reserves problem. This is a CF-wide problem. Guys in my former unit were having to redo-items on their PRV that were current, just because they were deploying on an operation.

Not flattering myself and you can pull in your neck. I'm simply relating our experience. If you wish to do the same for the Regs, please do, without the sarcastic rhetoric.

 

[OldSolduer]

Not flattering myself and you can pull in your neck. I'm simply relating our experience. If you wish to do the same for the Regs, please do, without the sarcastic rhetoric.

Good points - if on the PRV sheet it says current....why is the CoC not following it?

IMO - Egos of some of the CoC - "they didn't do it under MY watch, therefore they SHALL do it again"

 

[aesop081]

I'm simply relating our experience.

Which is the same as most, no matter if they are Reg or Res. Might i suggest you pull in your own neck and work on your "woe is me reservist" sensibilities.

 

[Dissident]

And here we go again...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Which is the same as most, no matter if they are Reg or Res. Might i suggest you pull in your own neck and work on your "woe is me reservist" sensibilities.

Go piss up a rope.

With my 35+ years on both sides of the fence, (including your sanctified Air Trades), I doubt there's much a youngster like you can teach me 8) You really have to watch who you decide to draw a sword against.

So, you have a good day (HAGO) and keep thinking that you're really that much more special than anyone else, Reg or Reserve.

In passing, just for shiggles:

"A delusion is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence.[1] Unlike hallucinations, delusions are always pathological (the result of an illness or illness process).[1] As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, dogma, stupidity, poor memory, illusion, or other effects of perception.

Delusions typically occur in the context of neurological or mental illness, although they are not tied to any particular disease and have been found to occur in the context of many pathological states (both physical and mental). However, they are of particular diagnostic importance in psychotic disorders including schizophrenia, paraphrenia, manic episodes of bipolar disorder, and psychotic depression."

I'm not a Doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Everything I pass on is done with simple justification that what I read is true, no matter the source.
Kinda like being in the Air Force.

Just sayin' :2c: