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DAG'ing (red, green, res vs reg - merged)

  • Thread starter Thread starter B.D.
  • Start date Start date
You should be able to get on contract without having immunizations, I know with Roto 4 they had a massive DAG week, which was just a conveyor belt of people getting things done. One of them was an area for immunizations.

Prepare to be a pincushion!
 
So my reserve unit's asked for names for 1-11 and 5-11, and I put mine in.

I've got a fair bit of time before September and predeployment training come around, but I figure it wouldn't be a bad idea to identify and address potential hassles sooner rather than later.

What do I need to do to DAG green, and what are potential problems in doing so?
 
Go to your OR and ask for a copy of your PRV form.  Or if you have access to EMMA you can get it yourself.  Once you have a copy look and see which items are GREEN/YELLOW/RED.  Some items, such as PEN form, Will, Memorial Cross, etc can be taken care of now.  Other thinks such as immunization, you don't need to worry about until you have actually been selected to go and you are somewhat closer to your pre-deployment date.

If an item is Green, then you are good to go.  Anything Yellow or Red has expired and will need to be dealt with.  Ask your OR staff.  That's what they are there for.
 
SGT-RMSCLK said:
Go to your OR and ask for a copy of your PRV form.  Or if you have access to EMMA you can get it yourself.  Once you have a copy look and see which items are GREEN/YELLOW/RED.  Some items, such as PEN form, Will, Memorial Cross, etc can be taken care of now.  Other thinks such as immunization, you don't need to worry about until you have actually been selected to go and you are somewhat closer to your pre-deployment date.

If an item is Green, then you are good to go.  Anything Yellow or Red has expired and will need to be dealt with.  Ask your OR staff.  That's what they are there for.

One of the reasons that I'm bringing this up here is the clerks at my unit.

Of the two that are nominally at my unit, one's on course and the other's on extended compassionate leave. The "clerk" that's filling in doesn't have his 3's and was unable to even handle a route letter for a tasking I went on last month. Meanwhile, I expect to be out of town on taskings and such over much of the summer, when the professionals are expected to return. It'd be nice not to have a panicked scramble for those clerks when I get back in late August.

I'm unfamiliar with a PRV form or EMMA. If the PRV form's in a file cabinet, I'd hope buddy's capable of pulling it out of a drawer. I've got DWAN access, if that's likely to give me access to EMMA.

Items such as the PEN, will, and Memorial Cross forms seem relatively straight-forward.

Are there any longer leadtime items that I should be trying to get a jump start on? Examples that I can think of are my not having done an Express test in the last three years, as my unit hasn't bothered with them despite having CFB Edmonton half an hour away.
 
If you have DWAN access and an email account then you can easily create an EMMA account.  I dont have the address for EMMA here, but if you go to your Brigade home page there may be a link to it there.  I'll post the address tomorrow after work.

Yes you could/should go do your express test.  Check to see if your ID card is up to date.  If you have 404s make sure it is up to date.  Things like medical, dental, passport will have to wait until you have been selected.  Once you have a copy of your PVR in front of you, you will know what items you can/should do now and which ones will have to wait. 

 
SGT-RMSCLK said:
If you have DWAN access and an email account then you can easily create an EMMA account.  I dont have the address for EMMA here, but if you go to your Brigade home page there may be a link to it there.  I'll post the address tomorrow after work.

Much appreciated.

Yes you could/should go do your express test.  Check to see if your ID card is up to date.  If you have 404s make sure it is up to date.  Things like medical, dental, passport will have to wait until you have been selected.  Once you have a copy of your PVR in front of you, you will know what items you can/should do now and which ones will have to wait.

Exactly what I was looking for.
 
Keep a typed copy of a Memorial Cross and PEN form, leaving the signature and date blank. When you DAG, you'll probably fill out about 8 of them, far easier to sign a photocopy and date it.

If you haven't had a medical done in the last 5 years, you should be able to book that as a Cl A type. That way, when it comes time to clear medically, you've got a recent medical and you get the rubber stamp.
 
Here is the DWAN website for EMMA

http://img-dcb-aemaa01.forces.mil.ca/emaa/engraph/login_e.asp
 
Areas to focus on:

IBTS completion
Valid Fitness test result
Medical currency (within 5 years if under 40, within 2 years if 40 or over)
Dental Fitness
Security clearance
ID Card
ID Disk (Dog tags)

Paperwork:  Will, PEN, Memorial Cross Designation


Given consistent problems with soldiers reporting when they have not DAG`d green (or sometimes even yellow), the Army is becoming increasingly insistent that admin be completed prior to joining the TF for workup training.
 
dapaterson said:
Areas to focus on:

IBTS completion
Valid Fitness test result
Medical currency (within 5 years if under 40, within 2 years if 40 or over)
Dental Fitness
Security clearance
ID Card
ID Disk (Dog tags)

Paperwork:  Will, PEN, Memorial Cross Designation


Given consistent problems with soldiers reporting when they have not DAG`d green (or sometimes even yellow), the Army is becoming increasingly insistent that admin be completed prior to joining the TF for workup training.


Even when you show up all green and current, they will still make you do it all again anyway, sometimes more than once, so you can spend 9-12 months pre-training for a six month tour ;D
 
dapaterson said:
Given consistent problems with soldiers reporting when they have not DAG`d green (or sometimes even yellow), the Army is becoming increasingly insistent that admin be completed prior to joining the TF for workup training.

Being DAG'd green is impossible for a Cl A reservist, health services won't touch them unless they have a 180 day Cl B or a Cl C contract in hand, unless they've changed the policy since I did my tour 3 years ago. I can see the issue if Reg F members are showing up, even being sent to deploy and unable to DAG....
 
PuckChaser said:
Being DAG'd green is impossible for a Cl A reservist, health services won't touch them unless they have a 180 day Cl B or a Cl C contract in hand, unless they've changed the policy since I did my tour 3 years ago. I can see the issue if Reg F members are showing up, even being sent to deploy and unable to DAG....

Not true. Medicals (at least down here) just need to be booked. If you have no dental problems, your done.
 
Perhaps it depending on the Health Services Unit. In Kingston, if you mention the word DAG and you're Cl A, they ask for a contract.
 
hmmmm recall back in 98 while in Halifax I called the hospital to enquire about getting a reserve member a medical done.  Wasn't sure if they would do it but they pointed out to me that according to regulations all members of the CF are required to have medicals done every 5 or 2 years depending on age.  They said that included reservists but in general the reserves do not get it done because of 2 reasons - the reserve member normally does not want to take the time out of the day and the unit does not want to pay the reservist to have the medical done.  Booked 3 members with no problems.  Needed the medicals because we were nominating them for positions that required them to be certified med and dent fit (DAG green).
 
CountDC said:
They said that included reservists but in general the reserves do not get it done because of 2 reasons - the reserve member normally does not want to take the time out of the day and the unit does not want to pay the reservist to have the medical done.  Booked 3 members with no problems. 

Count, sort of a comment/question: I was told by my CC that we reservists need to be medically fit to be offered a Class B contract. True? Wouldn't that also apply to Class A, though, and if not, why not?  ???
 
Good questions that I have attempted a search for and have been unable to come up with anything so far that states that.  Back then that was the opinion at the Base Hospital in Halifax and I was happy to go with it and have medicals done for the unit when they wanted them.  If memory serves correct 33 Med in Halifax used to do medicals at one time too although they may have been only enrolment ones.

Think it is time to use contacts and see what they say.  Hopefully I find something good.
 
CountDC said:
Good questions that I have attempted a search for and have been unable to come up with anything so far that states that.  Back then that was the opinion at the Base Hospital in Halifax and I was happy to go with it and have medicals done for the unit when they wanted them.  If memory serves correct 33 Med in Halifax used to do medicals at one time too although they may have been only enrolment ones.

Think it is time to use contacts and see what they say.  Hopefully I find something good.

Let me know if you come up with anything. Thanks. :)
 
Even the Ombudsman say the problem:

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/rep-rap/sr-rs/rc-str/rep-rap-04-eng.asp#pha-esp

Periodic Health Assessments
In the military, a periodic health assessment is also called a “medical.” A medical is considered current if it has been done within the last five years for members under 40 years of age, within the last two years for members aged 40 to 50, and within the last year for those members older than 50.

The Canadian Forces provides medicals to these standards for Regular Force members. By contrast, Reservists are only given medicals for enrolment, release, promotion, and prior to proceeding on Class B service of more than 180 days or Class C service. Reservists who have not recently been promoted or deployed may go years without having a medical assessment by the Canadian Forces. Therefore, a significant number of Reservists do not have current Canadian Forces medicals on file.

This difference can have a negative impact on Reserve personnel who are needed for domestic immediate operations, which are short notice operations requiring the immediate mobilization of members. In these cases, there is insufficient time to conduct a formal screening process. Chief of Military Personnel Instruction 20/04 states that for domestic immediate operations, the Commanding Officer must certify that the member has a current medical on file. Those without must undergo a medical assessment and be found fit or be excluded from the deployment.

A number of Reservists on Class A and Class B service of 180 days or less do not have current medicals on their file because there is no defined policy stating that they are required, nor are they eligible to receive periodic health assessments from the Canadian Forces. Although the present policy does not require periodic health assessments to be current, Reservists are expected to be fit, employable and deployable for general operational duties.

The absence of an up-to-date periodic health assessment record for Reservists limits the Canadian Forces’ capability to efficiently screen for domestic operations in a timely manner. We were told that Canadian Forces Health Services does not have sufficient personnel to medically assess Reservists en masse and on short notice for domestic operations.

A senior medical authority advised our investigators that when the Canadian Forces mobilized Reservists in 2003 to fight forest fires in British Columbia,17 there were risks taken:

…the blip is manageable and predictable when it comes to the numbers that we look forward [sic] to go on a rotation to Afghanistan, for example. The numbers were not manageable when we mobilized basically everybody to fight the BC forest fires. We ended up doing some pretty slipshod, shortcut kinds of things to get everybody documented and put on Class C. I wasn’t very happy about it, but…

Others confirmed this view. Our investigators were told that the Canadian Forces do not have the capacity to do complete medical assessments on short notice for a substantial number of Reservists (as would be required for emergency domestic operations), and that the only way to do this many short notice assessments would be to reduce the quality.

The consequences that result from this situation are:

Members are sent on missions without sufficient screening, leading to the inclusion of unhealthy members on operations and the associated risks to their well-being and that of others;
Members are not sent on operations because they cannot be screened for medical fitness, leading to the exclusion of healthy, medically-fit and capable Reservists; and
Medical practitioners are placed in an ethical dilemma as a result of having to balance the need of the individual Reservist for a thorough screening against the needs of the public in having a robust response to the domestic emergency.
The lessons learned report from Operation Peregrine included a comment that “the procedure to put Reservists on Class C service is cumbersome and NDHQ-centered, creating an administrative burden and putting at risk a timely response to the operational requirements.” The proposed solution to the cumbersome process was to waive the need for a current medical status for Reservists.

Our Office takes vigorous exception to the solution proposed, since it breaches a fundamental principle of fairness. In this case, the Canadian Forces duty of care is essentially the same for Reserve Force personnel as it is for Regular Force personnel. If a qualified authority deems that a current medical assessment is necessary for determining the medical fitness status of a Regular Force member for the purpose of deployment on operations, then the same standard must be applied to a Reservist. If this requirement can be waived for a Reservist, then one must question the value and validity of the requirement in the first place.

This matter is not lost on some Reserve commanders who have taken initiatives on their own. A staff officer in personnel at a Reserve brigade headquarters told investigators:

Our Commander has been pushing this the last couple of years. He’s directed to each one of the COs [Commanding Officers] that everyone is to have a periodical medical. That is something that we are taking on our own because we are not built for that in the system. So therefore it comes out of the hide of the unit budget to make it happen.


The issue of appropriate standards for periodic health assessments was also discussed at the June 2007 meeting of the Strategic Military Human Resources Council. At that meeting, Council endorsed the adoption of a standard for periodic health assessments for implementation in Fall 2008 or January 2009. This standard called for assessments every two years for both the Regular Force and the Primary Reserve.

We note with approval that this approach applies equally to both Regular and Reserve Force personnel. However it is not yet implemented, and in the interim, it is unfair that most Reservists do not enjoy the same protection gained from periodic health assessments as their full time counterparts. Sick, injured or medically unfit Reservists need to be identified through periodic health assessments in order to prevent further injury to themselves, or increased risk to other members of their unit. Therefore,

We recommend that, within 12 months following the publication of this report, the standards for periodic health assessments be applied equally for Primary Reserve and Regular Force personnel.
                                                                                                                                                                                         
for those interested:

Reserved Care: An Investigation into the Treatment of Injured Reservists

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/rep-rap/sr-rs/rc-str/index-eng.asp

My contacts are split on this with no one able to provide a clear policy, only pers opinion or the unwritten policy they have followed (the Med A said yes, reg and res the same).  Still waiting for some responses and still looking but to be honest I think this most likely is still the same - no official policy saying yes they are to be done with local policy dictating what is actually done.
 
CountDC said:
Our Commander has been pushing this the last couple of years. He’s directed to each one of the COs [Commanding Officers] that everyone is to have a periodical medical. That is something that we are taking on our own because we are not built for that in the system. So therefore it comes out of the hide of the unit budget to make it happen.

I am going to infer from this, then, that it is our CO making that decision at our unit. I'm pretty surprised that it's not an actual policy for all reservists, however. Interesting. Not a day goes by that I don't learn something new.  8)
 
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