Corporal Punishment
- Thread starter Infanteer
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This is a very interesting line of thought. I have often considered corporal punishment. I remember from my Psych studies (well...not much, but--anyway...) that punishment is at its most effective when it is immediate, painful, and directly connected to the wrong act. This seems to hold true for most of the population (so theory goes) with the exception of psycopaths who are unable to connect consequence to actions and usually lack any gauge of right or wrong. We normally reject corporal punishment as being "cruel and unusual", but in my opinion it may actually be more effective, less destructive and more humane (yes...you heard me...) than imprisonment.
Having visited a number of Federal institutions a few years back to conduct recces for military response in support to Corrections Service Canada, I am extremely skeptical of the value of our prison system as far as rehabilitation goes, even though this is its stated aim. At that time the recidivism rate was about 80%: I don't know what it is now but I wager it's no better. More to the point, I am not certain that the prison system even has much punishment value for many of its inmates. Again, if punishment is to be judged effective as a behaviour modifier, then a high recidivism rate would suggest to me that imprisonment isn't very effective.
In my opinion, prison serves largely as a holding pond and training depot for hardened, anti-social criminals who, should they be released, will immediately gravitate back to the lifestyle that got them into the sh*t in the first place. It has little lasting value. This is why I think talk of "boot camp" as a corrective system is pointless. You can give the baddie all the drill, PT and room inspections you want, and it might keep him in line while he's inside the camp. What matters is what happens when he leaves. I don't have the stats but I'm willing to bet that the success rate (ie: the guy straightens up and flies right...) is low. (Back to my observation on recidivism).
"But", people say," it works in the military". Well, it does and it doesn't. This is why I am in complete agreement with Michael Dorosh (now-there's something!!!...) that the military is not to be used as a receptacle for hardened criminals, many of whom are so dysfunctional that they would be useless and would become administrative burdens. If recruit depot was a panacea for behaviour, we wouldn't need QR&Os or the SDB or courts martial. Fact is soldiers still go bad. Some of them go so bad, so often, we have to get rid of them. The reason it works at all in the military, in my opinion, is that recruit depot is not a "one time fix" . Instead, it is an introduction to a society in which discipline and group-oriented behaviour are rewarded on a fairly constant basis (or should be in a good unit...) That, to me is the reason recruit training has much lasting value and conversely why in the civilian setting it has very little. This is further aggravated in my opinion by the tendency of these sh*tbirds, immediately upon release from the digger, to hang around in the same dysfunctional environment that they left to go to prison (another severely dysfunctional environment-ask anybody who has to make his living as a guard in our Federal system).
So, I don't think prison does much lasting good. Caning, or flogging, on the other hand adheres alot more closely to principles of behaviour modification as I understand them. It seems horrible (although we accept that parents can smack kids ie: use physical force to modify behaviour) but I bet it would be more effective and less destructive in the long run. We might want to ask ourselves whether it would be so bad if a couple of canings put somebody on the straight and narrow, as opposed to the destruction of people that happens in the prison system, despite the nonsense about rehabilitation. Just a thought. Cheers.
Having visited a number of Federal institutions a few years back to conduct recces for military response in support to Corrections Service Canada, I am extremely skeptical of the value of our prison system as far as rehabilitation goes, even though this is its stated aim. At that time the recidivism rate was about 80%: I don't know what it is now but I wager it's no better. More to the point, I am not certain that the prison system even has much punishment value for many of its inmates. Again, if punishment is to be judged effective as a behaviour modifier, then a high recidivism rate would suggest to me that imprisonment isn't very effective.
In my opinion, prison serves largely as a holding pond and training depot for hardened, anti-social criminals who, should they be released, will immediately gravitate back to the lifestyle that got them into the sh*t in the first place. It has little lasting value. This is why I think talk of "boot camp" as a corrective system is pointless. You can give the baddie all the drill, PT and room inspections you want, and it might keep him in line while he's inside the camp. What matters is what happens when he leaves. I don't have the stats but I'm willing to bet that the success rate (ie: the guy straightens up and flies right...) is low. (Back to my observation on recidivism).
"But", people say," it works in the military". Well, it does and it doesn't. This is why I am in complete agreement with Michael Dorosh (now-there's something!!!...) that the military is not to be used as a receptacle for hardened criminals, many of whom are so dysfunctional that they would be useless and would become administrative burdens. If recruit depot was a panacea for behaviour, we wouldn't need QR&Os or the SDB or courts martial. Fact is soldiers still go bad. Some of them go so bad, so often, we have to get rid of them. The reason it works at all in the military, in my opinion, is that recruit depot is not a "one time fix" . Instead, it is an introduction to a society in which discipline and group-oriented behaviour are rewarded on a fairly constant basis (or should be in a good unit...) That, to me is the reason recruit training has much lasting value and conversely why in the civilian setting it has very little. This is further aggravated in my opinion by the tendency of these sh*tbirds, immediately upon release from the digger, to hang around in the same dysfunctional environment that they left to go to prison (another severely dysfunctional environment-ask anybody who has to make his living as a guard in our Federal system).
So, I don't think prison does much lasting good. Caning, or flogging, on the other hand adheres alot more closely to principles of behaviour modification as I understand them. It seems horrible (although we accept that parents can smack kids ie: use physical force to modify behaviour) but I bet it would be more effective and less destructive in the long run. We might want to ask ourselves whether it would be so bad if a couple of canings put somebody on the straight and narrow, as opposed to the destruction of people that happens in the prison system, despite the nonsense about rehabilitation. Just a thought. Cheers.
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pbi said:
The recidivism rate in Canadian prisons for adults is (averaged for 1997-1999) is 41% (Juristat Reader, 2002), youths was 37%, and these numbers haven't changed much since the 70's. Now, to further delve in to those numbers, that 41% includes the relatively few chronic re-offenders... Statistically, 78% of people convicted of a crime NEVER RE-OFFEND. The 22% that do, tend to over and over again. Ergo, I disagree that imprisonment isn't effective. It's effective 78% of the time... The other 22%... Are they the type of criminals that will continually re-offend until they become too old or get too long a sentence? Probably. Would corporal punishment work for them? Perhaps, but only if instituted at a young age. Most young offenders NEVER RE-OFFEND, so it doesn't seem right to beat all children who make mistakes in hopes of weeding out a few chronic re-offenders. Are we looking to rehabilitation, or punishment?
I think that many comments on this thread are focused more on the victim's desire for retribution, and not necessarily the rehabilitation of an offender. Retribution is all well and good, but when it approaches vengeance, we border on becoming criminal ourselves in metting out our punishment.
Don't get me wrong... Some bastard robs my house, steals my car, etc. you're damned right I want to be the one holding the cane. But that's my desire for vengeance, not any real desire to see the perpetrator removed from the ranks of the offenders. All that would do would be to make me a worse offender than the bad guy, because my crime would have been willful, focused, and intentional...
B.N.S.
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NavyGrunt
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I suggest you read a book called "Con Game" and you'll realize that the rates released by CorCan are skewed in their favor. Most times they only count federal time as "reoffending", so if they do 2 less a day in a provincial facility its not considered "reoffending". Then consider the fact that I observed a man get sentenced to 2 less a day when he beat a man to death but said he "was only trying to hurt him". That to me is reoffending. As for most not slipping back Id love to say that was true. But I've watched the system work and I know that 4 out of 5 times when I arrested somebody they were going to have a history. The man who wrote those stats has some rose colored glasses for you..... ;D
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Released by statistics canada... And they use the term recidivism as anyone who is convicted under the criminal code who has previously been convicted. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a summary or indictable offnce. I would suggest that Con Game may have coloured your glasses, in this regard. Con Game is worried about sales. The Juristat is not. 
B.N.S.
B.N.S.
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NavyGrunt
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I believe what I've read combined with my experience. He address stats canada directly in the book. Not starting a fight, its another point of view in that book.
Corrections Canada is the same group that gave the offenders the last word on the "new uniforms" the officers would get. (Which I believe they are still waiting for) The designs were turned down because offenders thought the uniforms were to "authoritarian". The uniforms were dark blue like a police uniform without the stripe.....anywise.
:dontpanic:They day after I learned of this myself and another officer had semen thrown on us.....believe me.....I do not believe in our current system.
Corrections Canada is the same group that gave the offenders the last word on the "new uniforms" the officers would get. (Which I believe they are still waiting for) The designs were turned down because offenders thought the uniforms were to "authoritarian". The uniforms were dark blue like a police uniform without the stripe.....anywise.
:dontpanic:They day after I learned of this myself and another officer had semen thrown on us.....believe me.....I do not believe in our current system.
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Have to respond... Look, Con Game (as per my local library) is an extremely biased book. While it quotes the same sources of statistics, he ignores anything contradictory, and sneers at them. He lambasts a policy written by someone infinitely more involved in the process... Look, Con Game even by its very title is biased. I'm not questioning your experience (I'm assumng you are either a peace officer or you work in corrections, as have I) just that book, and it's relevance. IT's a very emotional book with no real basis in fact. Further, I suggest you read the following link.:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_11_17/ai_88998531
I think you may want to re-read that book, and realize that it's an appeal to emotions only, and not really intended to be taken as factual.
B.N.S.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0LVZ/is_11_17/ai_88998531
I think you may want to re-read that book, and realize that it's an appeal to emotions only, and not really intended to be taken as factual.
B.N.S.
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NavyGrunt
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Thanks for the link and I'll look into it. For me its the fact that the jails are zoo's now and the offenders are writing the rules. My buddies retiring from the service tell me of days when the jails ran like clockwork. Man that would be nice. And they thank corporal punishment for that. Spank the baddest asshole in the jail and he'd be quiet for 6mos. Alas I've never seen that system in action.
I think you to quickly dismiss the book though. I don't take it as gospel and I appreciate what your saying but I believe that the truth and right system is somewhere in the middle. If an offender is behaving properly and conforming and rehabilitating than he should have plenty of opportunity. If he's an ass he should be made to pay like you do with children. Eh. Thats why i'm glad im not in charge. I dont have to decide things like this.
I think you to quickly dismiss the book though. I don't take it as gospel and I appreciate what your saying but I believe that the truth and right system is somewhere in the middle. If an offender is behaving properly and conforming and rehabilitating than he should have plenty of opportunity. If he's an ass he should be made to pay like you do with children. Eh. Thats why i'm glad im not in charge. I dont have to decide things like this.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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WTF is wrong with these people?
My heart goes out to all the police officers and corrections officers who have to deal with not only the stupidity of criminals but the government too!
Whats next, are we going to have inmates interview which jail guards they would like to have? If an inmate doesn't like you then tough shit, your out of a job.
:threat:
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I've seen a number of reports on the Canada Corrections and as per Aaron, everything points to the fact that the inmates are running the asylum and CanCon Leadership is doing it's best to bury the real numbers because if they incarcerated everyone they were supposed to, the costs would jump exponentially.
In short, they are have done some sort of calculation that says "We're willing to accept XXX number of murders, rapes, assaults, etc. by individuals on parole and early parole per annum in order to save $XXX million required to keep offenders for their full terms."
The latest scandal that came out just this weekend was Police Chief Julian Fantino of Toronto threw a fit because he found out the Corrections Canada had paid for a "Spa Day" at the one of the women's prisons located in Kitchener.
Bottom Line: I think Canada Corrections is composed of the same political hacks that populate a majority of the crown corporations and they filter information to suit the PM's office and the Liberal Party of Canada.
Truly pathetic....
Matthew.
In short, they are have done some sort of calculation that says "We're willing to accept XXX number of murders, rapes, assaults, etc. by individuals on parole and early parole per annum in order to save $XXX million required to keep offenders for their full terms."
The latest scandal that came out just this weekend was Police Chief Julian Fantino of Toronto threw a fit because he found out the Corrections Canada had paid for a "Spa Day" at the one of the women's prisons located in Kitchener.
Bottom Line: I think Canada Corrections is composed of the same political hacks that populate a majority of the crown corporations and they filter information to suit the PM's office and the Liberal Party of Canada.
Truly pathetic....
Matthew.
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NavyGrunt
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Its a management issue. There is still alot of good work being done on the front lines. I will concede that its not the fire and brimstone scenario that "Con Game" portrays, I do believe that offenders have rights. They have rights to protection, food and shelter, and (offense relative of course) a shot at rehab, healthcare as well and education. I know that might not be what everyone wants to hear but I do believe it. I also recall an incident where the Screws at an institution asked for a dog to conduct some drug sniffing and it was shot down because the prisoners reps found it to "intimidating", Im quite torn on this issue....
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I agree with pbi that a Boot Camp type atmosphere is probably useless for the hardened criminal types. Perhaps this might be useful though for first time offenders or young offenders. Don't forget what this type of training can do for individuals whether they stay as members of the military or not. I think that many of us can say that we learned many things in basic training such as the ability to work in a team atmosphere effectively, the exhilaration when you complete certain physical training, the pride when completing some task or graduating with your peers, and last but not least, the sense of camaraderie amongst the members when faced with hardship. I think that many of us had never experienced much of anything like this before joining and they are great lessons of life to learn. This may have been the first time, as well, that someone had felt that they could possibly belong in some way or that they could actually work with other people toward a common goal and have a sense of accomplishment toward themselves.
To respond to something Torlyn said; I think most people are looking for rehabilitation AND punishment. I know that I don't see anything wrong with punishing someone for their behaviour. It's all well and good to try and examine why someone does what they do and change that behaviour but I believe people need to be punished as well for something that society, as a whole, agrees is wrong.
I also think we are being a bit holy on the vengeance issue. I've noticed a poster state that they feel that when punishment borders on vengeance that we border on becoming criminal ourselves yet states later that they would certainly feel vengeful toward someone that had wronged them. I believe this is an opinion that many people have...Let's rehabilitate them as long as I haven't been wronged, then have at 'er! I really don't see what's so wrong with vengeance. It's a natural human emotion that we seem to be suppressing in this case. That's not to say that we should be acting out every emotion we feel but vengeance and punishment seem to have become dirty words somehow.
Comments?
To respond to something Torlyn said; I think most people are looking for rehabilitation AND punishment. I know that I don't see anything wrong with punishing someone for their behaviour. It's all well and good to try and examine why someone does what they do and change that behaviour but I believe people need to be punished as well for something that society, as a whole, agrees is wrong.
I also think we are being a bit holy on the vengeance issue. I've noticed a poster state that they feel that when punishment borders on vengeance that we border on becoming criminal ourselves yet states later that they would certainly feel vengeful toward someone that had wronged them. I believe this is an opinion that many people have...Let's rehabilitate them as long as I haven't been wronged, then have at 'er! I really don't see what's so wrong with vengeance. It's a natural human emotion that we seem to be suppressing in this case. That's not to say that we should be acting out every emotion we feel but vengeance and punishment seem to have become dirty words somehow.
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brin11 said:
Well said. I think that what we are seeing is the extension of the desire to be policially correct. It's the holier than thou attitude that many of our elected officials and "experts" in the field of criminology seem to be following. I agree that vengance is not necessarily a bad thing. There seems to be a basis that we are trying to be morally "pure" by taking the higher road. ie. Sure, we COULD wreak some vengance upon them, but really, wouldn't we just becoming them?" The argument that we cannot resort to "their" methods of response, for if we do so, we are degrading ourselves down to their level.
All this tripe, taken with a grain of salt, still tastes like tripe to me. Vengeance and the like have been deemed to be negative owing to their overly emotional connotation, but as you've said, this is ridiculous. If that's the case, then pity, sympathy and empathy are also emotions. LEt's take THAT out of the justice system, and see how our prisoners feel then. I'm still disgusted that the liberal government has fought so hard to give time-serving criminals the right to vote. I mean, any government that is going to advocate give a rapist or a child-molester (IMO, both are the worst of the worst) the same right that I have, that men and women in our services have spent decades fighting and dying for, I can't help but feel sick to my stomach. My great-grandfather was the first peace-keeping casualty in Canada. (Brigadier H. Angle) It sickens me to think that the country that he fought and died for can do things like this, and say that they are making this country better... Sorry about the tirade. Spent some time at the memorial in garrison green today... Feeling a bit disillusioned with Canada right now. Few pints, all will be better.
(Molson Canadian. Gotta be somewhat patriotic, right?) B.N.S.
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Tach9
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"All this tripe, taken with a grain of salt, still tastes like tripe to me. Vengeance and the like have been deemed to be negative owing to their overly emotional connotation, but as you've said, this is ridiculous. If that's the case, then pity, sympathy and empathy are also emotions. LEt's take THAT out of the justice system, and see how our prisoners feel then. I'm still disgusted that the liberal government has fought so hard to give time-serving criminals the right to vote."
Excellent post. Does the government ever read whats on this site? Maybe they should!
Mike
Excellent post. Does the government ever read whats on this site? Maybe they should!
Mike
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NavyGrunt
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Vengeance:
Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
with a vengeance
With great violence or force.
To an extreme degree: December has turned cold with a vengeance.
I don't think thats the goal of a corrections system. Its to correct not punish. Now if they don't submit to rehab then yes punish away.
Infliction of punishment in return for a wrong committed; retribution.
with a vengeance
With great violence or force.
To an extreme degree: December has turned cold with a vengeance.
I don't think thats the goal of a corrections system. Its to correct not punish. Now if they don't submit to rehab then yes punish away.
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TorLyn has produced some statistics which appear to demolish me: I guess I stand corrected. More importantly, if the recidivism rates are that low, then as a society we should be thankful. While I have done absolutely no stat research at all on this (and must therefore bow to those who have...) I will offer a perspective on Corrections Canada, albeit a dated one.
During my visits, we spoke with both the "suits" in the "front office" of each institution as well as various uniformed officers. The difference in assessments of the situation was disturbing. I had the distinct impression that the suits were toeing the CSC party line, while we were getting more accurate (certainly more depressing) info from the uniforms. This experience tends to make me doubt what CSC is representing. However, I would appreciate hearing from anybody who is CSC, whether a "suit" or a "uniform".
OK-having more or less abandoned that battle position, I will dig in on the relative uselessness of boot camp. My military experience tells me that while boot camp prepares the recruits' mind for military life, it is military life itself that really shapes him and keeps him in line once he levs the depot. The proof I offer is what happens in a well-run unit in which leaders are not afraid to demand standards of peformance and discipline, while rewarding group-oriented behaviour and buildng cohesion, as opposed to a poorly run unit in which none of these things happen and other, negative, motivators are at work. In my experience the "magic spell" of recruit depot will wear off in the second unit, until such time as new leadership comes in an cleans house.
To me these two types of units approximate (in a very simplistic way) "good" civil society and the sort of dysfunctional environment many of our offenders come from and return to. It is really in these environments that the critical decisions that will lead to jail time (or avoiding it...)are taken. I would be very interested to see some stats on the success of these programs; "success" being defined not by how many graduate but rather by how many are productive citizens one, two, or three years later. Of course, I might get blown up again...
As for the very silly business about the CSC uniforms, this type of lame PC thinking is typical of the fuzzy-minded nits who populate some posts in our civil service, particularly where social issues are involved. Many of them have an almost instinctive reaction that anything "authoritarian" is bad: uniforms, giving orders, forcing people to be accountable, etc. In my opinion, what some of these inmates require is more exposure to an environment of order and discipline. A uniform is worn because it sends a message. In a prison the message should be: "we are in charge-do what we say". Now, uniforms alone will not fix things by themselves any more than boot camps will by themselves, but we should be doing things that contribute to a disciplined environment. My impression (we have a few corrections guys in our Brigade who I believe would back me on this...) is that this is not the case in our institutions: it is questionable who is really running things. Cheers.
During my visits, we spoke with both the "suits" in the "front office" of each institution as well as various uniformed officers. The difference in assessments of the situation was disturbing. I had the distinct impression that the suits were toeing the CSC party line, while we were getting more accurate (certainly more depressing) info from the uniforms. This experience tends to make me doubt what CSC is representing. However, I would appreciate hearing from anybody who is CSC, whether a "suit" or a "uniform".
OK-having more or less abandoned that battle position, I will dig in on the relative uselessness of boot camp. My military experience tells me that while boot camp prepares the recruits' mind for military life, it is military life itself that really shapes him and keeps him in line once he levs the depot. The proof I offer is what happens in a well-run unit in which leaders are not afraid to demand standards of peformance and discipline, while rewarding group-oriented behaviour and buildng cohesion, as opposed to a poorly run unit in which none of these things happen and other, negative, motivators are at work. In my experience the "magic spell" of recruit depot will wear off in the second unit, until such time as new leadership comes in an cleans house.
To me these two types of units approximate (in a very simplistic way) "good" civil society and the sort of dysfunctional environment many of our offenders come from and return to. It is really in these environments that the critical decisions that will lead to jail time (or avoiding it...)are taken. I would be very interested to see some stats on the success of these programs; "success" being defined not by how many graduate but rather by how many are productive citizens one, two, or three years later. Of course, I might get blown up again...
As for the very silly business about the CSC uniforms, this type of lame PC thinking is typical of the fuzzy-minded nits who populate some posts in our civil service, particularly where social issues are involved. Many of them have an almost instinctive reaction that anything "authoritarian" is bad: uniforms, giving orders, forcing people to be accountable, etc. In my opinion, what some of these inmates require is more exposure to an environment of order and discipline. A uniform is worn because it sends a message. In a prison the message should be: "we are in charge-do what we say". Now, uniforms alone will not fix things by themselves any more than boot camps will by themselves, but we should be doing things that contribute to a disciplined environment. My impression (we have a few corrections guys in our Brigade who I believe would back me on this...) is that this is not the case in our institutions: it is questionable who is really running things. Cheers.
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PBI,
You wil lNEVER get a look at CorrCan's real numbers or how good the "residents" have it. Most decent hard-working people would probably rebel in anger if they knew just how good they have it in the fed. system. Go to Beaver Creek up by Bracebridge and play one of the golf course or sit out on one the patio's and have tea, squash? tennis? or maybe just go away for a walk since there are no fences.
Torlyn,
The numbers you have are the same number-type shell games the treasury people make up. I have been doing this for16 years and the" rate of return" would make any invester want a piece of that. :-[
How they get to arrive at the numbers you quoted is very simple, anyone who is out on parole[which is almost everybody] and committs a crime and is convicted and returns to jail is still consider a non re-offender as he NEVER left the correctional system.
EXAMPLE:Mr. Scroat gets out of his 10 year sentence in 3 years, on parole for the rest...deals drugs to your kids and shoots a cop trying to arrest him.... goes back to jail but doesn't count as a failure. "Good system", hard to look bad, no?
You wil lNEVER get a look at CorrCan's real numbers or how good the "residents" have it. Most decent hard-working people would probably rebel in anger if they knew just how good they have it in the fed. system. Go to Beaver Creek up by Bracebridge and play one of the golf course or sit out on one the patio's and have tea, squash? tennis? or maybe just go away for a walk since there are no fences.
Torlyn,
The numbers you have are the same number-type shell games the treasury people make up. I have been doing this for16 years and the" rate of return" would make any invester want a piece of that. :-[
How they get to arrive at the numbers you quoted is very simple, anyone who is out on parole[which is almost everybody] and committs a crime and is convicted and returns to jail is still consider a non re-offender as he NEVER left the correctional system.
EXAMPLE:Mr. Scroat gets out of his 10 year sentence in 3 years, on parole for the rest...deals drugs to your kids and shoots a cop trying to arrest him.... goes back to jail but doesn't count as a failure. "Good system", hard to look bad, no?
Well I just thought I'd put my two cents in.. yeah, infact I do.Infanteer said:
Today's youth, (and I can say this out of experience... being a youth myself,) has this idea that because they're young they can get away with anything. They think, "I'm young. My body is tough. I can smoke, do drugs, beat up some little kids at the park and get away with it."
And they usually do get away with it.
Parents don't believe that it's their little angel who's doing these terrible things, they kinda just say, "Well you know, that was wrong. Don't do it again." There's no lesson learned in that.
Teens get away with bullying classmates and stealing candy bars out of convenience stores.
That gets boring, they get a little more daring, and move onto bigger things.
Murder, rape, identity theft.
Anything for thrill.
Today's youth gets away with far too much. If the "do"'s and "don't"'s aren't set at an early age, it takes a little more than reminders to help it set in.
A good whack over the head always reminded me of where my place was.
I say, give em a week or so in the slammer. Scare the bejeebies out of them at 13 or 14, so they don't go and pull off some other crap later down the line.
More comments from the peanut gallery,
Lex
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Good post lexi. Considering your age and your peers/friends you probably have one of the best insights to the mentality of young offenders from their level. (Not to say your one of them of course)
With the exception of education (Why should criminals get a free education and *I* have to pay for it?) i don't think many people will disagree with what prisoners should get. Everyone deserves protection, food, shelter and health care.
That said how many of us enjoyed a 'Spa day' at work recently?
Prisons with golf courses, tennis and squash?
Come on. When someone breaks the law they should be sent to jail to be punished.Going to jail IS the punishment. Were out here living out life and their behind bars. The punishment should be them sitting behind bars while the rest of the world gets to spend time golfing or playing tennis or doing whatever. They shouldn't have access to this stuff (probably for free) while in jail. Thats not punishment OR rehabilitation.
Dogs intimidate the prisoners? Big deal. How about the PEOPLE that these criminals intimidated while breaking into their homes, robbing them, raping them or murdering their family.
I just don't think i'll be able to sleep at night knowing a murderer or rapist is being intimidated by a dog searching for drugs. Thats inhumane.
With the exception of education (Why should criminals get a free education and *I* have to pay for it?) i don't think many people will disagree with what prisoners should get. Everyone deserves protection, food, shelter and health care.
That said how many of us enjoyed a 'Spa day' at work recently?
Prisons with golf courses, tennis and squash?
Come on. When someone breaks the law they should be sent to jail to be punished.Going to jail IS the punishment. Were out here living out life and their behind bars. The punishment should be them sitting behind bars while the rest of the world gets to spend time golfing or playing tennis or doing whatever. They shouldn't have access to this stuff (probably for free) while in jail. Thats not punishment OR rehabilitation.
Dogs intimidate the prisoners? Big deal. How about the PEOPLE that these criminals intimidated while breaking into their homes, robbing them, raping them or murdering their family.
I just don't think i'll be able to sleep at night knowing a murderer or rapist is being intimidated by a dog searching for drugs. Thats inhumane.
