Cop Killing Video Game

[Island Ryhno]

You guys know that little room in the back of your video store, where the "strange" people go to rent "stuff"? Put the freaking game in there, I believe that may help alleviate some of the problem. However, if the game is released and people have access to a computer it can be had, there is no stopping it today. A very strict policy would have to be in place where the games are sold or rented, it would have to be "policed" for sure. As of right now I'm not against banning it, I'm not sure how I would feel if I had kids and they came home with it, may change my perception. I feel for parents today. Acck, I actually want kids, I should just get a dog, he can't rent anything.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

This got totally away from the reason I posted it, I just have a problem with the selection of police officers as a targeted group.
I'm sure not one of you would feel the same if you got to be one of 8 Nazi's and then got to select 8 Jewish people to be hunted.

And I  sincerely apologise in advance for this, but closer to home, you get to be one of 8 National Guard pilots and then get to select 8 PPCLI members......

[ I hated to use that but where does one stop?,... to me THAT is the slippery slope that Infanteer alluded to earlier]

 

[48Highlander]

You need to see the real world lad, just how do you propose in this day and age to keep your kids from drinking?    ...and before you answer with" a couple of belts to the head" that only results in you getting charged and your child in foster care, take a night and think about what you would REALLY do and I can guarantee that most of your ideas are illegal.......

"A couple belts upside the head" used to be the forumla for training new recruits too.   While it may have been faster, and easier to implement, there are certainly other methods which work.   With children I've found that most of the time all you need to do is be firm, fair, and consistent.   If you approach them that way from a young age, they'll learn quickly what is acceptable and what isn't, and will learn to respect and listen to you.   Obviously all children go through a stage where they rebel against their parents, however, there's a reason why some kids idea of rebelion is staying out half an hour past curfew, while for others it's consuming vast ammounts of alcohol and drugs while having unprotected sex with complete strangers.

This got totally away from the reason I posted it, I just have a problem with the selection of police officers as a targeted group.
I'm sure not one of you would feel the same if you got to be one of 8 Nazi's and then got to select 8 Jewish people to be hunted.

And I   sincerely apologise in advance for this, but closer to home, you get to be one of 8 National Guard pilots and then get to select 8 PPCLI members......

[ I hated to use that but where does one stop?,... to me THAT is the slippery slope that Infanteer alluded to earlier]

Well actually....

The video game â Å“Under Ashâ ?, currently offered as a free download on an Arab website located in Torrance, California, involves the mass killing of Israelis and Jews.

Ok, so you don't get to be a Nazi, but you get to be a palestinian killing Jews.   Close enough for you?   Sure there was outrage when it was first released, but

a)   Digital media is next to impossible to control
b)   In the end, as has been pointed out, people are free to be assholes

The game hasn't achieved great popularity even though it hasn't been banned.   And even if it does, so what?   There's still no evidence that actions in a game in any way translate to "the real world".

If someone wanted to create a game where you go about blowing up PPCLI guys, do you suppose those who played it would automaticaly go and search out members of the CF to blow up?

 

[Infanteer]

This got totally away from the reason I posted it, I just have a problem with the selection of police officers as a targeted group.
I'm sure not one of you would feel the same if you got to be one of 8 Nazi's and then got to select 8 Jewish people to be hunted.

And I   sincerely apologise in advance for this, but closer to home, you get to be one of 8 National Guard pilots and then get to select 8 PPCLI members......

[ I hated to use that but where does one stop?,... to me THAT is the slippery slope that Infanteer alluded to earlier]

Appealing to emotion again - still doesn't justify censorship.   I have tons of wargames - crushing 4 CMBG (as the Soviets) or the Warsaw Uprising (as the Germans) are a few scenarios on them; should I throw them away for the sake of my mortal soul?

 

[Sheerin]

I canunderstand why members of the law enforcement community would be upset at this game, just like people are upset at GTA and other violent games. 

Though, i wonder why people haven't mention counter-strike.  In that game you can be a terrorist and your goal is to kill the counter-terrorists as well as destroy certain monuments or take hostages or whatever.

 

[Infanteer]

And that is one of the most popular games ever....

 

[RCA]

Really, what's the difference between a game where you play a criminal killing cops, or a Sith lord killing Jedi?

 

    I think what people are failing to understand is that by using police as targets (whether they shot back or nor is irrelevant), they are further being diminished in society's eyes. They have a particular job within a civilized society and are different because they are there to serve and protect, and maintain law and order. They need the public's respect to do the job, and any effort to discredit or diminish them is counter- productive. We are moving towards a society if individualism where authority is to be questioned. You see it in the schools where teachers powers have been reduced, because â Å“my Johnny can do no wrong therefore it is the teachers fault.â ? We are now doing the same to cops by the introduction of this â Å“game.â ?

People in law Enforcement have enough to worry about that they don't need to do battle over these sorts of issues. It makes us seem whiney and overbearing.

  - makes that point. I'm sure they appreciate their diminshment in the pulic's eyes. Just ask the families of  Dennis Strongquiil or the Alberta four.

Didn't anyone get a chill when a previous poster said the GTA was different because the police where not targets per se -

I remember playing the original GTA when I was 15.   We used to compete and see who could kill the most cops before getting killed.  

Sure its agame, but think of the implications.

  Interesting that car theft is on the rise and some places, rampant (think Winnipeg), and there is a game out there glorifying it. One doesn't beget the other, but as a society, sometimes we need to get our heads out of our collective asses. We may have played â Å“cope and robbersâ ? when we were younger, but we knew to respect the police. If a cop brought you home, the cop wasn't at fault, and you paid the consequences. We a losing that (or lost) and games as this one just perpetuate and continue this trend.

I am not for censorship, but obviously someone thinks there is a market for this. So, if nobody buys it, down it goes. Unfortunately, this is wishful thinking. Who wouldn't be thrilled to by being able to drill a cop? That is the scary part.

Thats fine- they arent marketed to kids, - Bullshit.

 

[Infanteer]

Who wouldn't be thrilled to by being able to drill a cop? That is the scary part.

Then isn't this game a symptom and not the actual ailment?

 

[Sheerin]

Interesting that car theft is on the rise and some places, rampant (think Winnipeg), and there is a game out there glorifying it.

I think the rise in car theft has to do with an increased market for stolen cars both in North America and abroad.  People don't do things because a game told them to, well that goes sane people.  People are generally motivated by one thing and one thing only.  Money.  If they can't make enough money in the legitimate economy then they'll switch to the underground one. 
I don't know how much a person makes per stolen car but I suspect its a lot more than they could ever make working at a McDonald's or as a bus boy or security guard.  The problem isn't the games, its the fact that not everyone has the same opportunity to advance in the legal work market.

 

[Gramps]

The solution is quite simple. If you dont want your kids to play the game or if you are offended by it then DONT BUY IT! Violent games, T.V shows or movies do not make people go out and kill, mame or hurt others by the way neither does Heavy Metal or Marylin Manson either. It is far to easy to place the blame on the entertainment world and not the individual.

 

[dutchie]

I have read the whole thread, and I still can't see the big deal. What's the difference between a game that has cops as the targets and one that has civvies? or soldiers? Are you (Bruce et al) saying that it's ok to have games where the object is to run down little old ladies or kill soldiers, but not one where you kill cops? What's the dif? Are cops' lives more sacred than old ladies lives (or anyone else's)? If the object was to kill the Gestapo (cops, but bad ones), would that be ok?

If the fear is that kids will play this game and develop hate for cops, and then kill them, then there's a bigger problem. If the parent's influence on their kids is so weak that it can't counteract a shitty video game, it's not the game's fault, it's the kid's and the parents' fault. How much effort does it take to stop kids from gunning down cops?

 

[RCA]

      As Infanteer has rightly pointed out, these games are symptomatic of our direction as a whole. What bothers me is that a lot out there see absolute no problem with any of this, that there is not even the tiniest trepidation, that in virtual reality, cops are being targeted because of the job they do.

  As for car stealing, from where I come from, the vast majority is either joy riding or to lazy to walk. And most are committed by youths. Having a game out there my not cause them to steal, but does have a way of validate what they are doing in there own minds.

 Why as a society, would we put out a product that descentizes (or dehumanize) those sworn to serve and protect us. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Was the market demanding the game, or was a market created for the game?

  And there are no such thing simple solutions. By saying let the parents look after it ignores the fact that a lot of parents (broad brush) are more interested in being their kids friends then a disciplinarian. And as we were all kids once, where there is a will, there is a way.

ok to have games where the object is to run down little old ladies or kill soldiers, but not one where you kill cops? What's the dif? Are cops' lives more sacred than old ladies lives (or anyone else's)?

Thats one of my points, yes cops are different beacuse of the nature of their job. Soldiers,by the nature of their profession, put themselves into harms way, but the police are there to stop socieity from turning into chaos and deserve respect for doing that.

 

[mover1]

I will treat this game like I do Celine Dion or Oprah. I just wont waste my time or money on them.

 

[dutchie]

BTW, I'd like to point out that I also think the game developers are assholes, and any parent who allows their kid to play this game are also assholes.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I wonder what the official reaction would be if someone created a "skins" modification which provided reasonable facsimiles of prominent politicians and celebrities.

 

[Infanteer]

Well, I'll sum up my POV by saying that I'm not too worried about this as I generally view society as being idiotic and this is one of the things we get in the West for allowing them to be idiots.  This is nothing new (as many have pointed out) and it won't be the last of its kind - society is not going to fall because of a tasteless form of entertainment.

 

[Warvstar]

  And there are no such thing simple solutions. By saying let the parents look after it ignores the fact that a lot of parents (broad brush) are more interested in being their kids friends then a disciplinarian. And as we were all kids once, where there is a will, there is a way.

Just to clear what some people may have been thinking. I did not mean that its only the parents responisbilty, I agree that it and many other games are fairly sick and should not be allowed. But we as people pay these guys to make these games, if they made no profit they wouldent keep making the same games. By the way I think Battlefield 2 is an awesome game, but that is not that same as going cop killing. When you play the bad guy in an army game its You vs Them, You both have a reason to fight. The thug is the bad guy no matter what and the cop is the good guy no matter what. Both sides know this. I think thats why people dont like the cop thing as much. Would I play the game? I might, but thats not really the point. They shouldent need to make a game this way.

Qoute infanteer "society is not going to fall because of a tasteless form of entertainment" end qoute. No but it will be one of the things pulling it down.

 

[Baloo]

I wonder what the official reaction would be if someone created a "skins" modification which provided reasonable facsimiles of prominent politicians and celebrities.

Like the JFK assassination game?

Already done.

 

[DogOfWar]

By the way I think Battlefield 2 is an awesome game, but that is not that same as going cop killing. When you play the bad guy in an army game its You vs Them, You both have a reason to fight. The thug is the bad guy no matter what and the cop is the good guy no matter what. Both sides know this.

Unless the thug sees himself as fighting "the man" or feed his family and the cops are crooked. Your argument there doesnt hold water. Nazis are most assuredly are BAD guys and people play as them in online games all the time. Making it so you cant kll a police officer in a videogame says to the public you value acops life more than everyone else- this creates bad mojo with the public. Last thing any LEO needs.

There was that other game that was supposed to be the Counter Strike killer about 3 years ago where you could play as the RCMP ERT team and JTf2 against a team of terrorists- no one said anything then. And that was killing cops- is it okay to kill cops if you are a political terrorist? Or is it okay to kill tactical police officers? This game featured SWAT and SF units from around the world VS terrorists but its name eludes me.

 

[Dare]

I finished GTA 3 San Andreas about 2 weeks ago. It's a fairly entertaining game. It's actually *less* violent than most games out there. So if your arguing censorship on Violent Content, it's not valid. What it does have it a whole lot of criminality. Although, if criminality is your worry, there are other games which are far more of a concern. I think the only aspect of the game which deserves harsh criticism is the political message it sends (sympathy towards the criminals, in similar 90's rapper Whatever-it-takes-to-Get-out-of-the-Ghetto talk) but then, what can you expect from the current sympathizing Scotland political environment. Although even that is somewhat accurate to the mentality of many people in that situation (which is the time in which the game is based). It's far from being any sort of training ground of any type. It doesn't teach you how to steal a car, smuggle drugs, fly planes, aim shotguns, reload m16s, evade law enforcement, kill law enforcement, etc (one mission you SWIM past a PT boat onto an aircraft carrier, shoot 3-4 soldiers (the total on the carrier) disable "the SAM" (using the magic disable SAM button), hop in a Harrier, take off in a matter of seconds, then engage and destroy 2 other harriers, then engage and destroy 3 PT boats). There are no tactics or details. It's just entertainment, not a simulation. What it is more of, is a platform for a dumb hippy political message. It's up to the parents to properly contextualize the game. GTA has always been successful due to its gameplay, not just because you're a criminal in the game. If you think you're going to somehow manage to dry up their profits, it's just not going to happen. It's selling well for a reason.
To the critics: Where were you during the release of any number of other worse games? How about State of Emergency, where you run around smashing stores and killing random people. That's the entire game, right there. Where were you when that was released? Most of you are judging a book by it's cover(as it's obvious the most critical of comments are from those who have not played it). If you want to alienate a lot of people from your message of morality, then by all means, carry on. You're only doing harm to your cause. It's just a game, the kids can tell the difference. Can you?

As for this idea that Battlefield 2 has a clearly defined idea of what the Good guy is, I think that's probably all in your head. There's no context to suggest that the game portrays any side as in the Right or in the Wrong. At least GTA3 has a limited morality agenda (ie. the prime enemy is a renegade, dope smoking, corrupt cop (don't think they don't exist)). The lead character has restraint and humanity (of course, all the while still a criminal).Yet there is no such message in BF2. You can hop right in the game and start shooting at US Marines. You assume that people have the same concept of who is Right and who is Wrong, that we do, in that case. To many who play the game, and join in on the Middle Eastern Coalition side, they *are* playing on the Good side. As for that game BeadWindow is talking about, GlobalOps (made in Canada, btw), it was meant to be a more realistic version of CounterStrike and the inclusion of JTF2 was not so terrorists could target them, but because they *live in Canada* and everyone else has their top dogs in a video game. Now, what these three games have in common, is that neither has any contextualized morality to either side. The game is neutral. You can not condemn one for its morality and then claim the other is alright. Multiplayer games tend to be like that. There's no story, it's just fighting. If you think that there aren't Real Nazis playing on the Nazi side, now and then, you're deluding yourself. So if you are angry at GTA3s context, you have to get angry at all these other games context and LACK of context. Might as well ban em all, eh!

The rating for the game I do think should be higher, but that's it. It's definitely an Adult game. No question. Fairly anti-climatic ending, as well. Maybe you should give it a try, unless, of course, you think you'll get brainwashed into killing cops and stealing cars..  :