Cop Killing Video Game

[Infanteer]

paracowboy,
What if it were 8 grown men and 8 young boys and if you grabbed a kid you got to cornhole him, no ban also?

Red herring.  The game isn't about child abuse or pedophilia, it's about gratuitous violence (see below).  If a game was marketed with the premise you listed above, I'm curious as to who would release it - I can't see kids having fun molesting people online (violence is another story). 

Anyways, I imagine that crossing from violence to pedophilia would go over the line, and the courts could be brought in with support from most of society - it'd probobly fall under the same catagory as Robin Sharp's "stories" that got him in trouble with the law.

there it is.

I feel this game is despicable, and any parent who purchases it, or allows it in their home should be ashamed of themselves. I feel that the creators are complete and utter assholes. I feel that the people who okayed it for production are also complete and utter assholes. I feel that anybody who plays it is a complete and utter asshole.

But, I am firmly against banning it.

And there it is right there.  One of the lovely things about our society is that people have the right to be assholes, regardless of whether we like it or not.

This game is nothing new - I remember playing with one called Postal a few years back where you had to get points by levelling neighbourhoods full of innocent bystanders.  As Shortbus mentioned, it is up to the parents to keep an eye on what the kid is doing.  Put this in the bin with violent gangster rap (Cop Killer was a good example), explicit porn, and the Anarchist cookbook as part of the trappings of a free and open society.

If you don't like it, we can always set up the "Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice" - the Taliban could lend us some SME's to help set it up.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

- the Taliban could lend us some SME's to help set it up.

That provided a chuckle and a half...  ;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
Red herring.  The game isn't about child abuse or pedophilia, it's about gratuitous violence (see below).  If a game was marketed with the premise you listed above, I'm curious as to who would release it - I can't see kids having fun molesting people online (violence is another story). 
Anyways, I imagine that crossing from violence to pedophilia would go over the line, and the courts could be brought in with support from most of society - it'd probobly fall under the same catagory as Robin Sharp's "stories" that got him in trouble with the law.

So, you are saying you are against censorship except when your hackles are tickled?
Well,"gratuitous violence " tickles my hackles, and I suspect, "most of society" but when I make a stink, I'm told I should just pay more attention to my kids?

Shortbus,
No answer, did you ever hear Korn again untill after you were 18? Pretty hard for your Dad to follow you around everywhere, eh?

 

[Roy Harding]

I dunno.

As much as I abhore the reported premise of the game, I remember being a kid in the '60s (before computers and video games, and EVEN (in my house) TELEVISION)!!

We'd play "War", with sticks for "guns", and somebody was always the "good guys", and someone else was always "The Krauts", or "The Japs".  The good guys always won.  Or, we'd play "Cops and Robbers", the cops always won.  Or we'd play "Cowboys and Indians", the Cowboys always won.  My Mother never liked these games, she'd tell me it wasn't "a nice way to play", and forbid me to participate - but I did anyway.

I would submit that, graphic as they are, these video games are nothing more than an "update" of the games I played as a boy.  Yes, they're graphic, and Yes they SEEM to glorify violence and death.  But DO they; anymore than the theatrical death throes that we (or at least I) pitched as kids??  I was so good at death throes that I was ALWAYS the Krauts, or the Indians - I had to BEG to get to be one of the "good guys" once in a while. 

Every so often, we'd get bored with the established story line, and let the Robbers win for a change - strangely, we didn't find that outcome as satisfying, and went back to letting the "good guys" win.  It was a lesson in "Right makes Might", and "Justice", and "Moral Superiority" - only as six year old kids we didn't know that, we just knew that letting the "good guys" win FELT better, and made for a more satisfying game.

Should parents be intimately involved in what their kids are doing - absolutely. Should these types of games be BANNED - absolutely not.


Just a thought.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

How about, rather than sitting back and bitching that EB games is selling these types of games to minors freely, these "concerned" parents get off their @sses and start getting involved in what their kids are doing, watching and playing. These companies are there to make money, not look after your children.

Sorry, but that is truly a stupid argument.

Profit motives do not absolve a company from its civic obligations. 

Or maybe they do for you....

Would you like us to deregulate Tobacco companies, Liquor companies, Fireworks Companies, Pharmaceutical Companies who accidentally overprescribe a lot of opiates, etc. as they also have as their primary objective to make money?

I admit parents obviously have a level of responsibility, but in an age where unfortunately both parents work long hours, and then often commute great distances too, "Nanny State" assistance is required to provide protection when parents cannot be there 24/7.



Matthew. 

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

The fact that i heard Korn before 18 is far beyond my point. My point is, my father drilled it into my head hard and fast that the band, and their often negative teachings are far from appropriate. i understand and recognize it fully, and although i DO own their albums today, i always find myself skipping certain tracks out of shame. I wonder what planted that in my head...

Parents arent there to bubble their children, they're there to help guide their children in the right direction. A child can take the reigns at any time and steer straight off the path, but will always know where that path lies.

Blackshirt, as for my "stupid argument". Thats you're opinion, and I still dont agree with it. Parents can complain about EB all they want, but I dont remeber EB ever signing anything stating their obligation to uphold each and every households moral fiber and appeal to thier choice in entertainment. If that were the case, they wouldnt have lasted a day.

 

[Infanteer]

So, you are saying you are against censorship except when your hackles are tickled?
Well,"gratuitous violence " tickles my hackles, and I suspect, "most of society" but when I make a stink, I'm told I should just pay more attention to my kids?

Now you are putting words into my mouth - did I at any point make the pronouncement of my view of either gratuitous violence or pedophilia?  I stated that it would most likely cross the bounds of decency for most folks (hence my reference of of the courts and most within society) - whether it is worth censoring is a different point altogether.  I imagine this was at the the crux of Robin Sharp's case within the Supreme Court of Canada (is it illegal to write about criminal acts?) so the issue is liable to be contentious.  As well, by bringing in pedophilia, you are appealing to emotion (logical fallacy) and obfusicating the facts by drawing links to something that has nothing to do with a tasteless video game made by assholes.

It is not a matter of what bothers whom, that is not what censorship should be about.  It is a matter of whether the material being censored being dangerous to the well-being of society.  If censorship is about being bothered, than we have a problem (as evidenced by a few rewrites of your statement here):

So, you are saying you are against censorship except when your hackles are tickled?
Well, "explicit pornography" tickles my hackles, and I suspect, "most of society" but when I make a stink, I'm told I should just pay more attention to my kids?

So, you are saying you are against censorship except when your hackles are tickled?
Well, "Islam" tickles my hackles, and I suspect, "most of society" but when I make a stink, I'm told I should just pay more attention to my kids?

So, you are saying you are against censorship except when your hackles are tickled?
Well, "Foul Language" tickles my hackles, and I suspect, "most of society" but when I make a stink, I'm told I should just pay more attention to my kids?

As you can see, censorship is very dangerous as it can have the tendency to be a slippery slope (history usually bears this out).

If we are to censor something for being dangerous to the well-being of society, than we should make sure that it is actually a danger.  As a few people pointed out on this thread, violent media is nothing new (music, TV, and games just as bad as this one in the story have been around for a while).  Are these any different than crime novellas in the 1940's and 50's that highlighted the exploits of gangsters and outlaws who often blew away "G-men" or "Law-dog" in their criminal escapades?

Slim did point to Grossman's work, which is debatable - as far as I'm concerned, we've always been attracted to violence within our cultural media; just look at how bloody the Iliad is, and that's been going strong for almost 3,000 years.  If this new video game means that we have to keep a closer knuckle on the Playstation, than so be it (the little guy on my end already loves his Gamecube, but at least he's satisfied with Mariokart for now.... ^-^).

Pedophilia, well now, that's a different subject altogether.  I'm willing to bet that material containing child porn presents a real threat to society, as those who are consuming it aren't males (young and old) with a testosterone kick but perverts with real pathological mental problems.

 

[Nemo888]

There are stores full of liquor and beer but if your teenager is always drunk who's fault is it?

This game sounds sick to me. But in other games like Counter Strike I like to play online as the bad guys\terrorists occasionally. Its fun to play the bad guy sometimes.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
There are stores full of liquor and beer but if your teenager is always drunk who's fault is it?

...now thats rich, I don't know, please enlighten me.

 

[Warvstar]

How about, rather than sitting back and bitching that EB games is selling these types of games to minors freely, these "concerned" parents get off their @sses and start getting involved in what their kids are doing, watching and playing. These companies are there to make money, not look after your children.

Funny how our childrens well-being is being placed on the shoulders of industries. I'd say that is a larger concern than our children pretending to be criminals in a make-believe world.

EXACTLY. This is the Awnser.

 

[DogOfWar]

actually the penalty is higher for the liqour store. Im not against actual legislation against selling these games to kids. Thats fine- they arent marketed to kids, the average age of a vidoegame player is about 27.

However games that a JUST based on violence have a tendancy  to do horribly. Postal and Postal 2, were panned by critics and met poor sales as did NARC, and State of emergency.Grand theft auto does well because it has a good story and strong playbility. In the eighties there was a game where you could ejaculate on peoples heads from the roof of a building and rape a native lady as General Custer- there was no outcry then and these games were fairly largely released- but again these games were just horrible and no one really bought them. No you ouldnt just grab people and "cornhole" them but I cant see how they could make that even resemble fun.....

People in law Enforcement have enough to worry about that they dont need to do battle over these sorts of issues. It makes us seem whiney and overbearing.

 

[Warvstar]

Quote,
There are stores full of liquor and beer but if your teenager is always drunk who's fault is it?

...now thats rich, I don't know, please enlighten me.

The kids fault and the parents. Thats my Oppinion.

 

[Infanteer]

In the eighties there was a game where you could ejaculate on peoples heads from the roof of a building and rape a native lady as General Custer- there was no outcry then and these games were fairly largely released- but again these games were just horrible and no one really bought them. No you ouldnt just grab people and "cornhole" them but I cant see how they could make that even resemble fun.....

IIRC, this was the same problem with people who crusaded against "Dungeons and Dragons".  Being a game based upon an imagination, people didn't like the fact bands of dice-rollers could play out deplorable acts within their game....

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
EXACTLY. This is the Awnser.
The answer?.....that whole paragraph is  bullshit kife.

What does getting involved mean to you? Tie them to a friggin chair until they're 18?
Shortbus has already established that even kickin' the stuff out of the house will not keep "evil" away from your children, so sometimes deeper steps are necessary.
Want to call it censorship?...fine I can live with that, everyone on this site partakes in it, its called OPSEC.
OK, I'm getting out of this thread until some of you kids have kids of your own, until then you can't understand the fears that come with being a parent.

Quote,
The kids fault and the parents if the kid is under 18. Thats my Oppinion.

You need to see the real world lad, just how do you propose in this day and age to keep your kids from drinking?    ...and before you answer with" a couple of belts to the head" that only results in you getting charged and your child in foster care, take a night and think about what you would REALLY do and I can guarantee that most of your ideas are illegal.......

 

[Britney Spears]

In the eighties there was a game where you could ejaculate on peoples heads from the roof of a building and rape a native lady as General Custer- there was no outcry then and these games were fairly largely released- but again these games were just horrible and no one really bought them.

I've heard of <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer's_Revenge>Custer's Revenge</a>, and as you can see from the link there was quite a public outcry about it when it first came out. I imagine that THAT game would never have been released today, since the SOLE PREMESIS of the game involves manuvering a naked white guy in order to rape an obviously Indian woman tied to a pole, without any other redeemable gameplay features. The makers would have been lynched.

I am unfamiliar with the first aspect, the "ejaculating on to people's heads" part. Is this in the same game?

 

[Warvstar]

Quote,
The kids fault and the parents if the kid is under 18. Thats my Oppinion.

You need to see the real world lad, just how do you propose in this day and age to keep your kids from drinking?    ...and before you answer with" a couple of belts to the head" that only results in you getting charged and your child in foster care, take a night and think about what you would REALLY do and I can guarantee that most of your ideas are illegal.......

My parents acually tought me to not drink or smoke. Im 19 and dont do either. Ive acually tried smoking and drinking. But none of its a habbit, and I respect my parents enough to never make it a habit.
Acually Legal or not if I had kids I would disipline them with force and with love. I have many good friends who obey and respect thier parents laws and the laws of the country. Because of the .... BELT and Love that there parents showed them.

 

[DogOfWar]

I've heard of <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer's_Revenge>Custer's Revenge</a>, and as you can see from the link there was quite a public outcry about it when it first came out. I imagine that THAT game would never have been released today, since the SOLE PREMESIS of the game involves manuvering a naked white guy in order to rape an obviously Indian woman tied to a pole, without any other redeemable gameplay features. The makers would have been lynched.

I am unfamiliar with the first aspect, the "ejaculating on to people's heads" part. Is this in the same game?

I was talking about Beat 'em & Eat 'em on Atari.

http://www.seanbaby.com/nes/naughty.htm check out this link of the top 10 naughtiest games- its just a write up folks. However there is some foul language so dont let your kids read.

 

[Britney Spears]

Hmm thanks for the link, I had picked up on a few links about this matter too.

I easily lost a hour of productivity reading the writeup on <a href=http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/sexual-games/10.php>Cho Aniki</a>. I wonder if the Japanese have somewhat different perspectives on this issue.

 

[Infanteer]

What does getting involved mean to you? Tie them to a friggin chair until they're 18?

I agree, pinning the actions of a 17 or 18 year old on their parents is BS (although some causality may be found there, but that is a case-by-case matter).

Shortbus has already established that even kickin' the stuff out of the house will not keep "evil" away from your children, so sometimes deeper steps are necessary.
Want to call it censorship?...fine I can live with that, everyone on this site partakes in it, its called OPSEC.

You are free to censor all this material that you want from your home - the lovely thing about a free and open society is that it works both ways; the public can consume what it wants and you, within your private sphere, can ban it if you want.

I personally don't want to be involved in legislating morality nor do I wish it done to myself, lest - down the road - a large chunk of people start thinking that deeper steps are neccesary to make me go to Church every sunday or to support a certain political party/movement.

As for OPSEC, we do it to protect the guys on the spear point - it isn't a ban on doing anything, it's just keeping things on a need to know basis.  Again, as I said in my earlier post (which never got a response) it has nothing to do with what "gets your hackles up" or makes you feel icky.

OK, I'm getting out of this thread until some of you kids have kids of your own, until then you can't understand the fears that come with being a parent.

Okay, well me and D9 aren't losing any sleep about this for her kid, so can I play?

 

[Sub_Guy]

It is a video game..................just a game............thats it....

How is it any different that watching a violent movie?  Every time a new GTA game comes out there are people kicking and screaming, about how it should be banned.  The game carries a "m" rating, M for MATURE not for kiddies.  Do you go out and rent porn for your kids?  Then why would anyone buy this game for their kids?  Seriously if anyone here has played GTA (I know this isn't about GTA, but a similar game) and all you do is run around killiing people and cops, you will get bored of it pretty quickly.

Having a bunch of people 3 generations behind me, deciding what my kids can't and can do is frustrating. 

What we need here is better control of how video games are bought and sold, and stiff penalties for those who ignore the law.


BTW it has never been proven that Violence on TV/GAMES/MOVIES causes kids to be violent.