Conflict in Darfur, Sudan - The Mega Thread

[Journeyman]

paracowboy Critical of Dallaire's Presence in Senate

:rofl:

Emptied that mouthful of beer just in time

 

[tomahawk6]

The Myth of St Romeo by George Koch and John Weissenberger doesnt hold Dallaire in much respect. Kind of like Bosnia.

 

[patrick666]

For which reasons? I really can't remember the details of his book, just the vague storyline and a few situations, etc..

It just seems like the cycle of genocide is repeating itself and a popular point of view seems to be, out of sight out of mind.

I remember hearing the Americans saying something about going to the Sudan? .. or was that simply a verbal agreement as well.

 

[tomahawk6]

Here you go.

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlight/2005/04/12/myth050412.html

It appears Dallaire even helped trigger his personal nightmare: the mission's collapse. On the genocide's second night, he sent a lightly armed squad of Belgian blue-helmets into the chaos, even though radio stations were blaming the Belgians for the president's assassination. These men -- 10, as it turned out -- were seized and disarmed by Hutu army extremists.

Dallaire soon learned of their capture, driving right past the building where they were held while heading for one of his meetings. As Dallaire dallied with Bagosora, the 10 were massacred and mutilated (it's uncertain in which order). Dallaire made no serious attempt to help his men, several of whom reportedly remained alive for hours. The Belgians later insisted they could have mounted a commando-style rescue.

(To this day, Dallaire is reviled in Belgium, which launched an inquiry into the episode. Dallaire refused to testify, a fact oddly omitted in his book.)

 

[Trinity]

Here you go.

http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlight/2005/04/12/myth050412.html

interesting read

 

[paracowboy]

interesting read

and the prevailing view of every Rwanda vet I've spoken with. (I'm not saying they all agree with it. Just every one I've spoken with.)

 

[pronto]

Go Paracowboy!

I find it is safest to just tune out whenever you hear the word "Dallaire" (even though he was a gunner)... That way you won't hear the BullSh*t and scream at the TV/Radio/Newspaper/Computer/et cetera. I find if I refer to "senator numpty" it helps my stress levels.

For God's sake don't read the Shake Hands book... It'll just make you evacuate from every orifice.

 

[patrick666]

The Canadian peacekeeper not only shook hands with the devil, he gave him the thumbs-up plus a lift between levels of Hell.

So it would seem. A very good read, indeed. Maybe he views this as some sort of way to re-establism himself as a rambo of peace.

 

[tomahawk6]

Dallaire like others is trying to improve his spot in history through spin and revisionism. Reminds me of President Clinton.

 

[patrick666]

Is there anything being done about the conflicts in Africa by any other international military or are we simply leaving them to their means. Seems to be one of the few civil wars the world has not invested effort in.

 

[tomahawk6]

The NATO countries just cant put a peacekeeping force everywhere in the world. You have to pick and choose the places where you can make a difference. This could be strategy of potential enemies to tie down troops in peacekeeping missions so they are unavailable for a mission where they could really make a critical difference.

 

[patrick666]

Good point. Many places require many needs, and you are right, sometimes there are priorities.

 

[paracowboy]

Is there anything being done about the conflicts in Africa by any other international military or are we simply leaving them to their means. 

here's a crazy idea: how about if you go to BBC.com, CTV.ca, or any other news agancy's website and do some checking for yourself?

 

[a_majoor]

In a way, Dafur would be a hideous "worst of all possible worlds" assignment; we would have to fight our way in, deal with Afghanistan level intensity combat in a hellish desert environment at the end of another long logistics chain and have to listen to the same wankers who whined and cried that we WERN"T going to deploy saying "This is not the right mission for Canada" while running and hiding from the evidence that they did indeed say this was the right mission.

As satisfying as being able to grab "them" and rub their faces into it, the price we would have to pay is far too high in blood and treasure. Besides, the "progressives" have demonstrated they are no longer capable of observing the world, or interpreting and learning from their observations. Create an "International Brigade" for "Progressives" to save Dafur and let Darwin take care of them.

 

[geo]

France went in to Africa - not sure they are still there
Most African countries have grave suspicion / mistrust of Euro/American countries and prefer African union countries peacekeeping forces - but those are underequipped and underqualified and under motivated.......... IMHO

 

[larry Strong]

According to the French Army home page there are 1200 troops in Chad, by the looks of the break down it's mostly Air Force including a dozen Mirage F1's

 

[TCBF]

"Dallaire like others is trying to improve his spot in history through spin and revisionism. Reminds me of President Clinton."

- Of the two, President Clinton is in the tightest spot right now: Monica Lewinski and Mrs. Clinton are still on this side of the grass.  Most of the people who have a real grievance agaist Senator Dallaire are in mass graves.

 

[TCBF]

"As satisfying as being able to grab "them" and rub their faces into it, the price we would have to pay is far too high in blood and treasure. Besides, the "progressives" have demonstrated they are no longer capable of observing the world, or interpreting and learning from their observations. Create an "International Brigade" for "Progressives" to save Dafur and let Darwin take care of them."

- Now THAT is a FANTASTIC idea!  We need a 2nd Mac/Pap Bn!  This will draw the action oriented progressives out of school and into the dirt.  They can listen to Toto sing "Africa" on their MP3 players between bouts of getting their arses kicked in Darfur.  Like the earlier Mac/Pap Bn, this will be a great way of getting rid of a generation's worth of the most dangerous of our own Commie rabble rousers: the ones who would take up arms.

- Better to let foreigners kill them 'over there' than have our sons and daughters be forced do it here later on.

 

[EXMPptbo]

You would think Rwanda would cure us of thinking the UN or anything UN sponsored would work in Africa. There is no cleaning up Darfur without tackling the Govt. of Sudan and no-one seems to have the balls for that as far as the UN is concerned. Our soldiers would be in harm's way for no good reason because they would not be allowed to do anything of substance. Like UNIFIL in the middle east they would only be there for appearance only. No vote will ever go through the security council or the general assembly as the Arab states won't let it. Darfur is genocide pure and simple and everyone knows it but the fix is in because it's just Africa. (their viewpoint, not mine)

 

[geo]

Going to Africa to become Sitting Ducks is not in our best interest - least not mine anyway.....  Given that the Sudanese gov`t is directly linked to what is going on in Darfur, we'd have to declare the country a "failed state"... like Rwanda, like Somalia..... and I don't think anyone has the stomach for that at present.....

So long as the country does not have strategic value to the "1st world", this 3rd world country will continue to be living hell.