Comparing the Regiments (PPCLI, RCR, and R22eR) and thier bases

[lovingezmo]

Oh great!! From one hole to the other. I figured it was though, that is why I am against it. At least I have a job in this place. I cannot move from Agony, BC (Agassiz) to s**thole, MB. It is almost funny in a terrifying sort of way!!!
:crybaby:

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

No housing to buy, none to rent, jobs, yeah convience store clerk or slaughter plant. record high suicide rate. I can go on.

 

[devil39]

Shilo.

Gunners have been there for years. Many seem to like it. Not a whole lot different than any of thousands of small towns across Canada.

In fact as a Patricia it would be my preferred posting, strictly for the incredible number and variety of training opportunities available. If you are a serious professional, and concerned about training, it will be a great advantage to be posted to Shilo.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Many other Gunners dislike it. They also have the postion to have their spouses firmly entrenched in the work force and the ability to get a home in the very small housing market. As far as training goes we will be either supporting the "school", doing courses or going to Suffield and Waingright to train because you can only do platoon level stab runs in Shilo. As far as more convential training goes many things such as refresher class on the SF kit for the C6 or map and compass could have been done in Wpg and weren‘t so I see no reason why it will in Shilo. We are destined to become a training battalion and that just sucks.

 

[devil39]

Originally posted by CFL:
[qb] Many other Gunners dislike it. They also have the postion to have their spouses firmly entrenched in the work force and the ability to get a home in the very small housing market. As far as training goes we will be either supporting the "school", doing courses or going to Suffield and Waingright to train because you can only do platoon level stab runs in Shilo. As far as more convential training goes many things such as refresher class on the SF kit for the C6 or map and compass could have been done in Wpg and weren‘t so I see no reason why it will in Shilo. We are destined to become a training battalion and that just sucks. [/qb]

What about section, Pl, and Coy level dismounted training? The infantry‘s real bread and butter.

Work on patrolling, advance to contact, defence, TEWTS, withdrawal, infiltration exercises, watermanship, the list goes on. All phases of war and all types of weather, with a good mix of terrain as well. Once you have practiced day then switch to night ops.

All for the cost of a box lunch and 8 hours of field training if the motivation is there.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Thats my point.  The higher ups don‘t have either the time or the motivation.  We cpls and pte‘s begged to do remidal (but fun) training and got no where.
Its hard to do PL and Coy level anything if the platoon or coy is disbanded for lack of a better word, supporting the school in Gagetown or doing their own courses.  Different pl WO‘s come and go like changing your underwear, so do the officers.  

 

[Gunner]

CFL, have you even ever been to Shilo?

We had the head of Western Canada Army at our base during Roto 12 and he‘s like "well the new people coming in won‘t have any idea how bad it is because they won‘t know any different".

Now, I know BGen Fenton fairly well and I think you are probably not taking in the proper meaning of his words. Over a couple of years the turnover in the Bn will be such that they soon forget the situation in Kapyong. BGen Fenton would not say that moving to Shilo is bad, because it isn‘t. Moreover, you can try to take him out but he would probably kick the s&^T out of you (old RCR).

I was raised in Brandon and spent many years in Shilo and have also lived, worked, been tasked to most of the army bases across this country. Shilo is hardly the terrible place you make it out to be. You are barely moving two hours down the road.

Shilo is a phenomenal training area and has been used by the artillery for many decades. It was also chosen by West Germany to be their Battle Group live fire training facility. The level of training they conducted in Shilo is something we can only dream about now. Shilo is good for 2 PPCLIs training as you can walk out your back door and have a larger live fire training area then Wainwright.

With the addition of another unit to Shilo, you will see an increase in the level of amenities provided to soldiers. Win-win situation for all involved.

Brandon is a university town and forms the administration centre for south-west Manitoba. It has many jobs available for the spouses of 2 PPCLI soldiers. If the spouse is a professional (teacher, nurse, lawyer, doctor, etc, etc) they will find employment in the city as they are always in demand. Most spouses are probably engaged in relatively low level work and this will be available as well in Brandon. Young men will find prospective spouses in Brandon due to its university.

Brandon has shopping malls, swimming pools, hockey rinks, sports teams, etc, etc. Everything Winnipeg has but without the gang violence and property crime (well at least until 2 Bn moves in )

When CFB Calgary closed in the mid-90s there was lots of moaning about having to move to Edmonton. In the end, the units got better facilities and are quite happy to be living in Edmonton and DND was able to divest itself of an expensive location. The best thing about the move to Edmonton was it got rid of alot of Regimental deadwood that was clogging up the system.

Bottom line, you signed a dotted line when you joined up and you get paid alot of money to go where the military sends you. Don‘t like it, get out, and go work at 7/11.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

xxx

 

[Gunner]

The move of 2 PPCLI to Shilo is quite simple. The army needs to reduce the amount of infrastucture that it owns. Every piece of building, every training area costs DND money. My preference would have been to move 2 PPCLI to Edmonton and amalgamate them with the other brigade units on the superbasek, but my thoughts weren‘t asked for.

Your 7/11 comment is typical of the old school dinosaurs in the Infranty that have no other skills then what they‘ve been doing for the past 15 years.

Hey, if you have other skills that you can market on civvie street, well done to you. The CF pays you a pretty shiny nickel and provides outstanding benefits. If you can do better on civvie street, it provides you with alot more options doesn‘t it?

We are suppossed to be embracing the LAV‘s and training with them but the training area will not support more then a platoon STAB run which diminishes the potential of this base.

Ok, what size of live impact area does St Charles range provide you in Winnipeg? I would hazard to guess the meager live fire training area in Wx wouldn‘t support anything larger then a platoon (if that). So are you arguing that 2 PPCLI should be located in Suffield?

You forgot to mention that the move from Calgary to Edmonton showed a 40% attrition rate.

Is this a military myth or a fact. Do you have any facts to base this on? The LdSH(RC) was one of the units that moved from Calgary to Edmonton in 1995 and by 1997 it deployed a complete battle group to Bosnia for Roto 1. Could they have accomplished this with a 40% attrition rate? As I mentioned, the move of the units got rid of some deadwood that should have been gone a long time ago.

We currently have 98 OT‘s or guys pulling the plug right now. The majority of these troops are some of the good ones we have. We aren‘t a full BN on paper as it is so in essence we are losing 2 coy‘s worth of people. A lot of these people are in leadership postions and it will take a long time for the BN to catch up.

This is the nature of the combat arms. Its ok for a young guy but why would in the world would you want to remain and infantryman as you get older? If you retire from the forces after 20 years, do you want a trade that is transferable to civvie street or do you want 20 years of injuries from being a grunt? Some people love the infantry (and other combat arms) but some people find the system too regimented, etc and seek other challenges. As far as the fellows putting in OTs, what is stopping the military from training them in another trade and posting them to Shilo?

Currently there is not enough housing to accomidate all the members and there families. There is minimal units to rent during the off school session. There is also minmial housing.

MLS Listing

Well according to MLS there are 130 houses currently for sale in the Brandon area. This doesn‘t take into consideration those who will build houses or live on the base in PMQs. I have read (within the last month) that Shilo has enough PMQs to house those wanting to live on base. Have you been told differently that the military is moving you to Shilo and you won‘t be able to find a place to live?

Your statement of employment is inaccurate as is your statement that spouses are more likely to be employed in low level jobs. This isn‘t the 70‘s or 80‘s any more.

No, I said members with professional spouses will be able to find jobs. What jobs are available in Winnipeg and are not available in Brandon? Educated and trained people will find jobs in Brandon as it has a low unemployment rate.

You also missed my comments about the BN supporting the school (WATC) which currently has a cell in Shilo and may quite possibly take over the school from Waingright. By supporting the school you diminsh your chances to do COHESIVE training as your troops are spread out all over.

Look, its quite simple. Bns need soldiers. Soldiers need to be individually trained. LFWA TC does not have the instructor capability to run all the courses required to fill the bns. Hence, Bns are tasked to provide instructors. Here is the choice, LFWA TC can run courses in Wx which means that your MCpls, Sgts, WOs and junior officers will leave their wives and families in Shilo. Or LFWA TC can run the course in Shilo and those same MCpls, Sgts, WOs and junior officers will be at home at night. Which do you prefer? Finally, units no longer conduct year round training but rather move into a three year cycle (ATOF) which consists of reconstitution (which 2 PPCLI is currently in), training and operations.

Why does the army have to hid in the bush? There is a serious problem with our relationships with the public so why not keep us in the forefront where we can show them we aren‘t such bad people.

I agree with you and it goes back to my idea that 2 PPCLI should have been moved to Edmonton. The problem is we can‘t afford to have bns in every city anymore.

Cheers,

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

xyz

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Gunner sent you an email. Perhaps you can post these pics for me. They are fairly big so perhaps you can reduce them as well.

 

[devil39]

CFL,

Your IR numbers are almost double what I have heard.

OTs are a fact of life in the Infantry, and I think they are a good thing. We send some really good people throughout the CF when they OT, and that can only be a benefit to the CF.

There will be more than enough PMQs for 2 PPCLI.

Training will be better in Shilo than Wainwright or Suffield due to availablility. Wainwright has the huge WATC org and the range will be cut up for CMTC. Suffield is booked most of the year by the Brits.

If I were you I would be asking for an updated brief on the Shilo move through your chain of command.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I sent a notice to Gunner about availability of housing and yes your right PMQ‘s appear to be sufficient, however the single living in and IR people are currently over booked. Hopefully he posts it soon. Unfortunately in their haste to move us up there they neglected to build new quarters. So the troops will be moving into similar delapitated quarters. Not to mention the courses that will be running through there for the summers as well as permament (sp) members of the Guns and 2VP. They may move SL into row housing to help aliviate the problem however its my understanding that CFHA has to have some vacant at all times for emergency housing.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The last I read there where 106 people requesting IR but I have heard numbers of closer to 200. OT‘s are life and I plan on using it one day but I feel some may have waited to OT a couple more years if it weren‘t for the move. As far as training is concerned time will tell.

 

[Gunner]

CFL, thanks for the documents. It appears that there will be enough PMQs but not enough SQs. There is probably scope to allow single people to rent a PMQ, which has been done before.

There are 250 PMQs available in Shilo. 2 PPCLI has 130 families requesting a PMQ. Hence there is a surplus of 120. Although personnel posted to the Bn this APS may reduce the surplus.

SQs - Currently there are 273 bedspaces. 152 people have requested bed spaces. However, there have been 108 requests for IR and the Bn is expecting 150 recruits this summer. An additional 50 people will try and rent on the economy. It would seem there are over 400 people wanting bedspaces. As I mentioned before, they may be using PMQs to alleviate this situation. I‘ll see if I can find out anything on Monday but I have not heard this issue spoken about. I do know the situation in Wx is of much greater concern.

The MLS link I posted will not have rental housing on it as it is only for homes for sale.

I have to agree with Devil39. Shilo is a good training base for 2 PPCLI. There will be several years for the Bn families to adjust to the new location but they will integrate well into the community.

I hope your move to Shilo will change your mind about the area. It has a lot to offer.

Cheers,

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Don‘t forget Gunner, there will also be other people besides 2VP moving into PMQ‘s ie gunners, maintainers, log pers etc. I checked MLS myslef (not your link) and it said 0 rentals. Now that isn‘t entirely true but there aren‘t very many to speak of.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Further to the PMQ‘s, I know there will be others moving out as well but housing as you can see is definately an issue.

 

[Gunner]

Agreed, housing seems always to be an issue with the CF...

Cheers,

 

[Scratch_043]

I am thinking of joining for light infantry, and would like to know where I could have a better opertunity, and which unit is more LI oriented, PPCLI, or RCR, I know that they both have a LI Bn, but I was wondering how they compare to one another.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Better oppertunity for what? Couldn‘t tell you how the 3rd BN‘s compare.