Commonality - JSS & BHS / AAD and IceBreaker

[Kirkhill]

Seeing as how Matthew has reopened the ice-breaker discussion he can take the blame for this notion.  ;D

Commonality is the name of the game - as in a common 14-20 ship class to replace the CPF and the DDHs (AAD).  The ships are in the 4000-5000 tonne class

There has been much speculation that the BHS might/could/should be built on a common platform as the JSS with a displacement of 25,000 tonne.

Enter the icebreakers.

The Svalbard is a 6500 tonne vessel.  The Kiwis have launched a similar vessel but with somewhat less ice capability although it is ice-strengthened.  The MRV is 9000 tonnes. 

The hull form of both these vessels looks to be fairly conventional.

Could a common hull/machinery fit be found that would allow for the icebreakers to be built as "step-sisters" to a 6500-9000 tonne vessel that could act as a Flagship and AAD vessel?

 

[Armymatters]

Probally, from an engineering standpoint. If the replacements for the CPF and the DDH's are also using diesel cruise engines, perhaps use the same diesel engine in the icebreakers, but put more of them, and attach them to a electric generator, as conventional icebreakers tend to be diesel-electric due to issues with ice clogging the propellers, and possibly causing damage to the powerplant (with diesel-electric, a circuit breaker will switch off, but with direct drive, it could wreck the diesel engine). There is less of a need for speed in an icebreaker, just raw horsepower and endurance. The electric generators for all platforms (including JSS and BHS) can also be the same, but can easily be scaled to the size of the ship by how many you install.

For the BHS and JSS, they can share the same engines as well. Perhaps also, the same hull form, but different superstructure, as the two types have different needs.

My thoughts only.

 

[Neill McKay]

Could a common hull/machinery fit be found that would allow for the icebreakers to be built as "step-sisters" to a 6500-9000 tonne vessel that could act as a Flagship and AAD vessel?

I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say about it, but I would expect that the best hull form for icebreaking and the best one for seakeeping in the Atlantic would be quite different.

 

[FSTO]

I'll be interested in seeing what others have to say about it, but I would expect that the best hull form for icebreaking and the best one for seakeeping in the Atlantic would be quite different.

I know that this is way off topic, and you may call it whining, but what makes you think that the sea and swell in the Atlantic is anymore dangerous or rough than that of the Pacific?

I've sailed both and this mantra from Halifax that they are the only real navy sailing in a real ocean and doing real operations is getting a little  annoying.

Now back to your regularly scheduled topic. ;D

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.hightechfinland.com/2004/newmaterialsprocess/kvaerner.html

Both Blue Max and mjohnston39 mentioned the Double Acting Tanker described above.  With Azipod drive it is possible to optimize a hull form for going at best speed astern while driving through ice and at the same time optimize its "ahead" form for driving through open waters (Atlantic, Pacific, Indian or, dare I say it, Arctic Oceans  ).

 

[Navy_Blue]

Hull size and design are really irrelevant.  You will save your money with a common PG&D systems, common propulsion systems, common control systems (IPMS), and common hotel equipment.  Less demand on the Stores system, Training system and Maintenance.  Also makes it easier for us to cannibalize when the next government gets voted in and cuts us back again.  I am taking an educated guess that they will go diesel electric on JSS, BHS and ice breakers.  Rumore has it that FELEX on the CPF is going to upgrade our 4 MWM 850KW generators to 4 CATs.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  So if they were going to do this CAT would be my first choice for the PG&D on all ships being built.  Then find a common lighting fixture the Fluorescent lights on the CPF cost 3000$ a piece a ballast alone is 1000$ and we're not allowed to service them except to replace bulbs and remove ballasts.  So maybe find a cheaper lighting group that reduces EMI.  Hotel equipment like heating and ventilation make it common its a very complex system and would be nice if we all had the same.  Unfortunately we still need three bidders for all this and we will most likely end up with junk again.   

Oh and FSTO, every sailor I've talked to age 80 to 18 including myself who have been off grand banksand in the winter say the Atlantic is by far the nastiest.  You guys get your big storms but come December in the North Atlantic (lets emphasize North Atlantic) its per-ma storm.  I've never heard a comparable stories come from the west coast.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I've never heard a comparable stories come from the west coast.

That is because the November storms in the Pacific Ocean off of Vancouver Island can get "sink your ship" bad, not just "uncomfortable" bad.  I've seen the Fleet head for Nootka Sound more than once to avoid a severe pounding...

That said, I have never personally sailed the Grand Banks and do not want to turn this into a "yeah, well my ocean is worse than your ocean" debate.

 

[Navy_Blue]

Enough said it really goes no where 

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Anyways back to your regularily scheduled topic.