Common Army Phase
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there is something strange: The medical category that is necessary do be in the CAP is, for the vision V3. But i‘m V4 and the MOC that i was accepted is V4. So what it mean? My MOC is (48 health care administration). So, if i understand, i will not do the CAP because it is not required for my MOC? In the regular, the MOC 48 is V4 also...
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JohnSmith183
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I was wondering if those with some experience in the forces could provide me with some information in regards to the Phase I Common Army Phase (CAP) Training. Sometime this year I am scheduled to be posted to Gagetown in order to complete this 8 week training course and would like a heads up on what to expect before I go.
Responses to questions such as:
1) What topics are covered?
2) How many of those 8 weeks are in class? How many are out on the field?
3) How demanding is it physically, mentally?
4) Has any one gone through the course recently and have any tips or advice?
5) Can I obtain the course syllubus somewhere?
I thank you in advance for your time and effort,
Smith
Responses to questions such as:
1) What topics are covered?
2) How many of those 8 weeks are in class? How many are out on the field?
3) How demanding is it physically, mentally?
4) Has any one gone through the course recently and have any tips or advice?
5) Can I obtain the course syllubus somewhere?
I thank you in advance for your time and effort,
Smith
RCPalmer
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For introductory information on Common Army Phase (Regular and Reserve) you can try the Infantry school's relatively small esternal website ( http://www.brunnet.net/infsch/ ). Under "The School" you will find the Infantry School's Joining Instructions, which includes an annex for most of the courses being run out of there. Annex A describes CAP's performance objectives. The course Training Plan and Master Lesson Plans are available through the DIN if you have access to that. As for the level of difficulty, that depends on whether a person is taking regular of reserve CAP and on the background of the individual.
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JohnSmith183
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RCPalmer,
Thank you for that information. For the record, I am reg force and unfortunately at this time have no access to the DIN. However, I will definitely take your advice and make it a point to access the DIN and obtain the specifics on the course itself.
However, if there is anyone else reading this entry and is able to provide some first had experience on the topic, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Smith
Thank you for that information. For the record, I am reg force and unfortunately at this time have no access to the DIN. However, I will definitely take your advice and make it a point to access the DIN and obtain the specifics on the course itself.
However, if there is anyone else reading this entry and is able to provide some first had experience on the topic, it would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Smith
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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The topics covered are in the course syllabus. The course syllabus will not be finalized until just prior to the Crse, and even then it will go through constant modification. If you find someone who has done CAP recently, and from what you mentioned you must know someone, get their syllabus and it should give you a general idea of topics covered. The Training Calendar should be made up for this year, but unscheduled events are not, so it is too early to worry about your syllabus.JohnSmith183 said:
Plan on a good four(plus) weeks in the field.
Very!
I'll defer that to someone who was a student/candidate rather than staff.
GW
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chaos75
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First off Reg Force CAP is 11 weeks vice the reduced res Cap of 8 weeks. The course is somewhat the equivilant of PLQ for the NCM's. The syllabus includes weapons training, fieldcraft, and platoon level tactics, and some physical fitness time. So if you come to course in shape, and can handle 11 weeks of reduced sleep and infantry life, you will do fine. 
RCPalmer
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If I am not mistaken, regular force Phase Two (parts one and two), was 11 weeks long. CAP (R) is 5 weeks, and regular force CAP is 9 weeks. The annex at the Infantry School website turned out to be mislinked, sorry to lead you astray. Having taken both regular force Phase Two and CAP (R) (long story), I am pretty familiar with the course. The course is challenging in it own way, mostly due a comparitively steep learning curve (e.g. you will learn what a recce patrol is one day and you could be leading one in a week). For infanteers, the course teaches you to lead at the section level as an essential "building block" to commanding at the platoon level.
As for specific course content, everything listed as "supplemental training" on the CAP (R) joining instruction is taught on regular force CAP (that is where the four week time difference comes from).
The course is meant to be challenging. Your instructors are looking to see if you can keep your head when a degree of physical strain and sleep deprivation is applied. There will be field exercises, testing your ability to command Section Attacks, Reconaissance Patrols, and to lead a Section in the defence. These exercises will vary from 5-10 days in length. As was previously posted, getting one's level of fitness up is essential.
JohnSmith183, do you have anyone to defer to for guidance on these matters such a supervisor? I know in my unit we always try to give new officers a "heads up" on these type of issues (since untrained officers in the reserves parade with their units between courses). Unfortunately, most regular force officers don't get that opportunity.
As for specific course content, everything listed as "supplemental training" on the CAP (R) joining instruction is taught on regular force CAP (that is where the four week time difference comes from).
The course is meant to be challenging. Your instructors are looking to see if you can keep your head when a degree of physical strain and sleep deprivation is applied. There will be field exercises, testing your ability to command Section Attacks, Reconaissance Patrols, and to lead a Section in the defence. These exercises will vary from 5-10 days in length. As was previously posted, getting one's level of fitness up is essential.
JohnSmith183, do you have anyone to defer to for guidance on these matters such a supervisor? I know in my unit we always try to give new officers a "heads up" on these type of issues (since untrained officers in the reserves parade with their units between courses). Unfortunately, most regular force officers don't get that opportunity.
J
JohnSmith183
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Gentlemen,
Thank you for the information, please keep it coming. RCPalmer, I do not have a supervisor at this time that can guide me in regards to this training (2nd Language Training predicament) or anyone for that matter who is knowledgable on the subject. All the officers in the 2nd language training are in the same situation, where we are learning about the CAP course through hearsay and rumors.
However, I do have a Military Police Officer acquaintance (reg force) who is in the Air force and is scheduled for the CAP training. (An Air force MPO doing CAP sounds strange to me...if anyone can tell me if he is mistaken please do, so that I can inform him of the discrepency.) He showed me the MPO trade brochure and it clearly states that CAP is 8 weeks in duration and then it gives the "...training in austere conditions..." rhetoric as part of the brief description.
"Chaos" what were you referring to in your post in regards to the "res reduced CAP of 8 weeks"? Is that possibly what my MPO acquaintance will be taking? Is it different then what Infanteers will take?
Again thanks to everyone for the information, I will wait to get on the DIN later on to get the updated syllabus. However if there is any more information or advice that anyone can provide me it would be very much appreciated.
Smith
Thank you for the information, please keep it coming. RCPalmer, I do not have a supervisor at this time that can guide me in regards to this training (2nd Language Training predicament) or anyone for that matter who is knowledgable on the subject. All the officers in the 2nd language training are in the same situation, where we are learning about the CAP course through hearsay and rumors.
However, I do have a Military Police Officer acquaintance (reg force) who is in the Air force and is scheduled for the CAP training. (An Air force MPO doing CAP sounds strange to me...if anyone can tell me if he is mistaken please do, so that I can inform him of the discrepency.) He showed me the MPO trade brochure and it clearly states that CAP is 8 weeks in duration and then it gives the "...training in austere conditions..." rhetoric as part of the brief description.
"Chaos" what were you referring to in your post in regards to the "res reduced CAP of 8 weeks"? Is that possibly what my MPO acquaintance will be taking? Is it different then what Infanteers will take?
Again thanks to everyone for the information, I will wait to get on the DIN later on to get the updated syllabus. However if there is any more information or advice that anyone can provide me it would be very much appreciated.
Smith
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chaos75
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My info is off the top of my head, if I was at work i could give more accurate timings off the infantry School site. As far as I know all reg force army officers do the same course, no differences for different trades with the exception of medical officers I think. Either way if your Reg, plan on 11 weeks, with three or four field ex's plus the ranges. It will be fun.
RCPalmer
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Common Army Phase, as the name suggests, is a requirement for all army officers. Additionally, some officer candidates in so called "green" air force trades are required to take it (from what I have seen, air force construction engineers as well as air force MP's). Regardless of occupation, all officers take the same CAP course. CAP (R) is for reserve officers. As for the slight discrepancy in course length (8 vs.9 weeks), the Combat Training Center likes to put on a big parade with all the graduating officer courses at the end of the summer, and a week's practice is usually set aside for that.
Keep in mind that it is the Infantry School that runs this course, and they consequently have the most up to date information. The officer training system has been in flux for the last couple of years, and there have been a lot of misunderstandings as a result of this.
Just to clarify a couple of nomenclature points, there are two resources that you will find on the DIN that are most useful. Firstly, there is the Course Training Plan (TP). The TP describes performance objectives, and provides an rough timetable for the course. Secondly, the course will have a set of Master Lesson Plans (MLPs). This is the actual "meat" of the course material and is a good pre-study resource. Many of the MLPs will even have handy powerpoint slide presentations with them.
Just as an addition to chaos75's post, yes this is a fun course that you will probably find quite rewarding.
By the way, did you find the Infantry School joining instructions O.K.?
Keep in mind that it is the Infantry School that runs this course, and they consequently have the most up to date information. The officer training system has been in flux for the last couple of years, and there have been a lot of misunderstandings as a result of this.
Just to clarify a couple of nomenclature points, there are two resources that you will find on the DIN that are most useful. Firstly, there is the Course Training Plan (TP). The TP describes performance objectives, and provides an rough timetable for the course. Secondly, the course will have a set of Master Lesson Plans (MLPs). This is the actual "meat" of the course material and is a good pre-study resource. Many of the MLPs will even have handy powerpoint slide presentations with them.
Just as an addition to chaos75's post, yes this is a fun course that you will probably find quite rewarding.
By the way, did you find the Infantry School joining instructions O.K.?
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cypmat
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I did my CAP this past summer with the RMC ''Kids'' (I am DEO, EME). It was from may 31 to august 12.
After CAP, St-Jean really feels like a summer camp. When I went through BOTC I did find it challenging, but as soon as you get to Gagetown you realize thats something is different. As the name says it INFANTRY School not CANADIAN FORCES School. As my Sgt in St-Jean said once, in St-Jean you join the CF in Gagetown you join the Army.
Most important point is avoiding injuries. This is the main reason for staying in shape. We started 53 and finished 34. Ok we were the franco platoon and all our staff was infantry so yes, we were more ''hardcore'' than others, but still, PT everyday of the week and sometimes on weekends is hard on the untrained body. We were only 6 guys above 25 yo and most of the injured were 19-20.
The typical morning routine in garrison was PT, inspection and then 200 pushups before breakfast to ''pay'' for the rust on the C9. Yeah, we paid for a lot of things this summer. But the weather was relatively nice.
Another big word over there is: ATTITUDE. You got to maintain a good attitude towards the staff even in hard times (and there will be many). These guys WILL remember you when the time comes to be assessed on your patrol. And dropping out on PT is a big deal, unless you're a woman.
Since you get a Sgt and MCpl per section, they see everything and hear everything. But they can be friendly and helpful if you work hard.
The biggest difference is in the field. I realized you can accomplish a lot on 5 hours of sleep a WEEK! I admit that I twice fell asleep walking back from a patrol. And its funny how the staff doesnt care about the lack of sleep. Ah and the woods!! Man the most dense woods I ever walked in. Nothing like Farnham. I remember the day we had a rucksack march in those woods... It lasted from 2300 to 0500 non stop. Inspection at 0630 of course and another day of fun. Or when I came across a black bear during night topo (it growled)...
anyway I am happy to have finished and I have a newfound respect for infantrymen. Boy, after going through 6-7 section attacks a day, you quickly realize that firing a C9 and pepper-potting with 4 barrels on your back is tough and not that fun after the first couple of times. Dont get me started with patrols....
If I can suggest a Hotel in Fredericton try the Lord Beaverbrook. Its expensive but after a week in the field its a nice change. And they have internet on the TV!
After CAP, St-Jean really feels like a summer camp. When I went through BOTC I did find it challenging, but as soon as you get to Gagetown you realize thats something is different. As the name says it INFANTRY School not CANADIAN FORCES School. As my Sgt in St-Jean said once, in St-Jean you join the CF in Gagetown you join the Army.
Most important point is avoiding injuries. This is the main reason for staying in shape. We started 53 and finished 34. Ok we were the franco platoon and all our staff was infantry so yes, we were more ''hardcore'' than others, but still, PT everyday of the week and sometimes on weekends is hard on the untrained body. We were only 6 guys above 25 yo and most of the injured were 19-20.
The typical morning routine in garrison was PT, inspection and then 200 pushups before breakfast to ''pay'' for the rust on the C9. Yeah, we paid for a lot of things this summer. But the weather was relatively nice.
Another big word over there is: ATTITUDE. You got to maintain a good attitude towards the staff even in hard times (and there will be many). These guys WILL remember you when the time comes to be assessed on your patrol. And dropping out on PT is a big deal, unless you're a woman.
Since you get a Sgt and MCpl per section, they see everything and hear everything. But they can be friendly and helpful if you work hard.
The biggest difference is in the field. I realized you can accomplish a lot on 5 hours of sleep a WEEK! I admit that I twice fell asleep walking back from a patrol. And its funny how the staff doesnt care about the lack of sleep. Ah and the woods!! Man the most dense woods I ever walked in. Nothing like Farnham. I remember the day we had a rucksack march in those woods... It lasted from 2300 to 0500 non stop. Inspection at 0630 of course and another day of fun. Or when I came across a black bear during night topo (it growled)...
anyway I am happy to have finished and I have a newfound respect for infantrymen. Boy, after going through 6-7 section attacks a day, you quickly realize that firing a C9 and pepper-potting with 4 barrels on your back is tough and not that fun after the first couple of times. Dont get me started with patrols....
If I can suggest a Hotel in Fredericton try the Lord Beaverbrook. Its expensive but after a week in the field its a nice change. And they have internet on the TV!
J
JohnSmith183
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RCPalmer,
I did go to the site you directed me to and found under Annex 'A' a .pdf document that was pretty much a kit list for the course. However, as stated before I will wait to get on the DIN to get a finalized version on the joining instructions and syllabus in order to get as much info as possible on the course before it actually begins.
Cypmat, thank you very much for the information! Your comparison and contrast to Farnham was great seeing that all I and the other new Officers have to compare anything to is that 4 weeks of "fun in the field" in Quebec. I will take your advice to heart and REALLY try to see the bigger picture throughout the more trying times of the course.
I guess my last question is in regards to the duration of the course again. Cypmat you stated that your course was approximately 11 weeks in duration, does this include Phase I AND Phase II of the course? Is Phase I only 8 weeks? We are hearing that the course is 8 weeks in duration so unless it has changed or is continuing to change this is something that we would like to pin down. On the other hand I guess we can wait to get on the DIN, but any information would really help us out.
Thanks again to everyone,
Smith
I did go to the site you directed me to and found under Annex 'A' a .pdf document that was pretty much a kit list for the course. However, as stated before I will wait to get on the DIN to get a finalized version on the joining instructions and syllabus in order to get as much info as possible on the course before it actually begins.
Cypmat, thank you very much for the information! Your comparison and contrast to Farnham was great seeing that all I and the other new Officers have to compare anything to is that 4 weeks of "fun in the field" in Quebec. I will take your advice to heart and REALLY try to see the bigger picture throughout the more trying times of the course.
I guess my last question is in regards to the duration of the course again. Cypmat you stated that your course was approximately 11 weeks in duration, does this include Phase I AND Phase II of the course? Is Phase I only 8 weeks? We are hearing that the course is 8 weeks in duration so unless it has changed or is continuing to change this is something that we would like to pin down. On the other hand I guess we can wait to get on the DIN, but any information would really help us out.
Thanks again to everyone,
Smith
C
cypmat
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A few years back, Phase 2 was in two parts. 8 weeks in Gagetown and 3-4 weeks in your trade school, Borden for EME, LOG, Kingston for SIGS and Gagetown for the grunts. Now its everyone together, all trades have fun and learn to work with each other during 11 weeks. I know people who went in the fall and its the same system. Anyway at CFSEME Borden the only training is phase 3 next summer and phase 4 next fall
Hello,
I am currently R031, and wish to comission as an Intel Officer. Can anyone tell me more about what the training would be like and what I'd be doing after CAP (Phase II)? Do I need to comission first as an Infantry officer, then change to Intel, or is this a specific trade, unlike PsyOps that take anyone already in the forces? Anything else I should know?
I'd like to be informed before going up the CoC and the recruiting center. ;D
Cheers & Thanks!
I am currently R031, and wish to comission as an Intel Officer. Can anyone tell me more about what the training would be like and what I'd be doing after CAP (Phase II)? Do I need to comission first as an Infantry officer, then change to Intel, or is this a specific trade, unlike PsyOps that take anyone already in the forces? Anything else I should know?
I'd like to be informed before going up the CoC and the recruiting center. ;D
Cheers & Thanks!
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Try using the SEARCH function and/or going here http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17703.0.html.
Does anyone know what the new policy is for the Int Branch on CAP? I have heard now that all officers have to complete this course, including ones wearing the Naval and Air uniform. I have also heard that there are some exceptions to be made if a member has previous time in service.
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As a reservist atending RMC, will I be put on a reg force or a Pres CAP?, anyone have any idea on that one ???
Part of the reason for losing weight in the field is that your body is not as used to the sudden decrease in food with an increased activity level. With a 5 day exercise by the end of it your body is just getting used to processing less food and having to get more energy out of what you give it.
If you want to lessen the effect of the field on your body you have to adjust your body to the expected conditions beforehand... Heavy exercise and eating less will start to get your digestive system used to the conditions.
In any case a few days into CAP you will adjust better to the IMPs and such.
If you want to lessen the effect of the field on your body you have to adjust your body to the expected conditions beforehand... Heavy exercise and eating less will start to get your digestive system used to the conditions.
In any case a few days into CAP you will adjust better to the IMPs and such.
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