COMBAT ENGINEERS and COMBAT

[mellow_minded]

hey Guys,

I'm joining the army and am very much interested in Combat Engineer MOC.  Now, I know the text book definition of a Combat Engineer... but I'm wondering if any of you veterans out there or maybe someone that has just gone through the training can tell me, How much combat is envolved in the En. role?  Are we right along side infantry, do we follow, do we lead?  Have you ever had to fire your weapon on an op as a Combat Engineer?  I just would like to know what is our combat effectiveness and if it is used at all.  What are the threats we encouter other then mine clearing?  I'm wondering as to the combat part of the job?  If any of you could educate me on the matter I would appreciate it.  Thanks a bunch.

 

[SprCForr]

Short version:

You're a grunt with a trade. We are sometimes in front, beside, and behind. It just depends on the phase of war or task we are preparing for. Check out our role and our secondary role. I'm sure it's on this site somewhere. Use the search function. You'll learn a few interesting things when you're finished all the reading, so I won't spoil it by telling you.

;D

 

[Zombie]

You're a grunt with a trade.

I won't spoil it by telling you.

Nice way of putting things...  ;D

 

[mellow_minded]

i have read the job description i just wanted to know if we ecounter combat in missions as the Infantry do or are we only called upon in areas that are clear of enemies... that's why i asked people to speak of experience rather then textbook knowledge.  Let me put it in another way... Will you, as a Combat Engineer, ever have to be involved in combat ( as in firering on the enemy) in your carrer as a sapper?  I know each situation is diffrent and each mission requires diffrent tasks, but i wanted to know EXPERIENCE wise if any of you has ever had to resort to the seccondary role of the Combat Engineer?  I'm not asking for war stories... just a simple yes we have encountered and participated in Combat or no, we only do Engineering work.  And guys... no need to be rude about it... I have been doing research... I've read as much as i could on the function, now i'm turning to the experienced people to see what wise words they may have for me... and all I get for asking is being sent to check some job descriptions that i've already read... I was just asking for a lil bit of help... so if you are willing to help great... i'm all ears, if not... sorry for having wasted your time.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Now, let's just think for a second, shall we.  The name of the trade is COMBAT Engineer, not " jeez I hope there are no baddies around while I safely blow up this bridge a zillion miles from the FEBA" engineer.  I think your question provides its own answer, wouldn't you say?

 

[SprCForr]

I wasn't being rude. We are grunts with a trade. As well, I answered your question about "where".

I am simply stating that you can find the answers by reading the threads in this site. While conducting such activity you will be exposed to many other different and interesting things, thereby increasing your knowledge base. Do we kick in doors and such? Yes. Have we gone into operations ready to fight if the enemy presents himself. Yes. Have we pulled triggers? Yes.   Do we clear lanes through minefields ahead of an infantry op to sieze a position? Yes. Do we prepare with every fibre of our being a plan to blow the snot out of anyone who tries to assault any of our positions? Yes. Do we act as another rifle coy/pl or as a counter-attack force for the infantry? Yes, when we're attached. Assist a sniper det in securing a firing position and then helping on security? Yes. Those and tons of others have all been done by lots of sappers.

Spoonfeeding ends. I think that if you use the Mk 1 Mod 0 Eyeball a little more, you'd find those answers and more. And yes, that last line was a little snarky. BTW, fill out your profile.

 

[mellow_minded]

thank you for the answers.  The reason why i'm asking is because I will be enlisting and have been caught up between Infantry and Combat Engineer.  I sort of looked at Combat Engineer as the best of both worlds... but I wanted to know the facts on how much Sappers actually get involved in enemy confrontation.  You seem to be knowlegable and experienced so, if you have any further advice other then to create my profile... i'm all ears.  Thanks again.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Speaking as a retitred Sapper I would say; Go Infantry....please, God, go Infantry.

 

[NavComm]

Maybe you're just too mellow-minded to do any sort of combat. I hear there will be work in the building trades next to a big body of water south of here.

 

[2 Cdo]

If he thinks that he was being treated rudely, wow!  Is your entry into either an infantry battalion or an engineer squadron going to be an eye opener! By the way Kat unless an attitude change is in order we don't want him either! ;D

 

[Sapper6]

i have read the job description i just wanted to know if we ecounter combat in missions as the Infantry do or are we only called upon in areas that are clear of enemies... that's why i asked people to speak of experience rather then textbook knowledge.   Let me put it in another way... Will you, as a Combat Engineer, ever have to be involved in combat ( as in firering on the enemy) in your carrer as a sapper?   I know each situation is diffrent and each mission requires diffrent tasks, but i wanted to know EXPERIENCE wise if any of you has ever had to resort to the seccondary role of the Combat Engineer?...  

Mellow,

    As someone who was on Op APOLLO in 2002 as part of the 3 PPCLI Battle Group and participated in all of the "combat operations" against a declared enemy the simple answer to your question is - yes.  Did the Sappers fire any rounds from their weapons in anger - no.  But, neither did 99% of the infantry.  As far as I am aware only the snipers on Op ANACONDA and perhaps some elements of Recce Pl on Op HARPOON fired at the enemy. Also, the LdSH(RC) fired their co-axial MG from a Coyote one night in the defence of Kandahar Airfield. In summary, I would like to say this - the fact that more soldiers didn't fire their weapons is a testament to the discipline of Canadian troops.  I was extremely impressed by the calm, cool reaction of fire orders that all soldiers displayed.

S6 (a proud Combat Engineer)

p.s. like some of the others before me, I too have some issue with your user name - "Mellow-minded".  Seems like an odd choice for a person seeking information on the combat arms.  Whether you join the infantry or the combat engineers, let there be no doubt - there is nothing "mellow" about your training.  You should be prepared to drive the body, endure harsh climactic conditions and work in a team often sacrificing self for mission and fellow soldiers.  Just some points from someone who has the "experience" you requested.  Good luck, the CF needs well informed and highly motivated recruits - go for it!

 

[mellow_minded]

mellow_minded is the same as the email address that i've had for years. I'm an amateur boxer so i know about hard work even though i know the army is on a whole diffrent scale.  I'm calm underpressure is what my trainer says. 

As for the guys that wrote priorly, don't get caught up on words.  I can handle training and I can handle PO yelling few inches away from my face.  What i think is stupid is, I was just asking a question.  There is no need for any hostility on a board from someone that is just asking for some info to help him make the right decision for himself.  There is nothing productive about rude comments to someone that's tryin to know more about something.  Luckily for me I don't get faded easily, but i'm thinking about the 16 year old guys that turn to you guys for info and get barked at for not formulating the question the way you would preffer.. or be accused of not doing any research.  Anyhow guys, i'm not much into complaining, it solves nothing.  All i'm saying is, I asked a question, maybe it was the wrong question, but i turned to some veterans for wisdom and knowledge and get nothing but sarcastic and demeaning comments in return.  I'm sure that's the kind of thing that make a great team attitude.  Just try to remember all the unanswered questions you had when you joined the forces, and try to be considerate of those people feeling the same thing as you did at that time.  If not for me then at least for the younger and more fragile people that will be asking you for your wisdom.

oh and for those that have answered my questions and managed to do it with respect even if they disliked my name  .  Many thanks.  Much apreciated.

 

[SprCForr]

  It seems to me that you are confusing blunt with rude. On review of my first answer there isn't anything that could be considered rude. It was straight up. You didn't seem to grasp the fact that most soldiers will not talk out of school about things done. We'll talk about it to ourselves because we share the same experiences. It's all in the family so to speak. You, on the other hand are an outsider. Put it this way. Go into any Fire Station, plunk yourself down at the kitchen table and ask them if they really had to pull any charred bodies out of a smoking ruin. Or go ask any cop about what they did when they had to view a kids mangled corpse after a drunk smoked their car and really had to take the guy into custody. You know that if you did that you'd line yourself up for trouble. But you'd also know that they really do that stuff. The answer to your question is so obvious if you had bothered to really check. Is the Combat Engineers a member of the Combat Arms? Who else are? Who isn't? Then looking at the tasks that we do will provide the answer. You just have to think about where we do them. If our secondary role is to fight as Infantry, why would you think that we don't engage in combat? No other trade has that secondary role. Not one. Did they put it there for fun? Did they really mean it? Do you really think every Army has enough Infantrymen?

    The research I mentioned previously would tell you no. So would the threads about our declining numbers Forces wide. So would the saying "Doing more with less". How many ways do you want it? If you had really done the research you'd have had your answer, but instead you whined (that's rude) "re-ask" until you got it spoonfed. Complaining may not be your thing, but it seems that whining is. Oops, rude again.

Below is just one indicator of the level of research you've done:

... In summary, I would like to say this - the fact that more soldiers didn't fire their weapons is a testament to the discipline of Canadian troops.   I was extremely impressed by the calm, cool reaction of fire orders that all soldiers displayed..

This is truly a worthy compliment.

 

[mellow_minded]

Thank you for your blunt answers... SprCForr...  One of the reasons i am joining the forces specifically Combat Engineers is that i know it will make me a better man in the end... a stronger man... not only physically but mentally.  So, i thank you for your answers... however you answered my questions.  Thank you once again. 

 

[SprCForr]

Good luck. You'll have a real good idea of your strengths and weaknesses when you're done. Also a whole new confidence in yourself. I never regretted being a Sapper for one instant.

Cheers

 

[SemperFidelis]

The more and more I read up on Sappers...and their own posts, I realise I absolutely made the right choice when I put it as my first and only option on my application.   Seems like its a tiring, dirty and a hard job.   However, so far I can't say Ive seen anyone say anything negative about combat engineering.   If they do its usually followed by a " but it was well wroth it" or "i wouldn't have it any other way".     When I was applying I thought about going infantry as well, but I saw cbt eng as a best of both worlds, and then some.   I chose it as an only option and I really really really hope I get get selected for it...and not get offered something completely different and unrelated.

 

[Dakota]

Semperfidelis, well put.

To all: While I was reading these threads, more then ever I am determined to live up to expectations of being a Combat Engineer. I start BMQ on Sept. 26. I am looking forward to the challenge that is ahead and I will make all you Sappers proud in continuing the tradition of a Combat Engineer.

Go Engineers. 

 

[patrick666]

Well it is, undoubtedly, the trade I am applying for as well. Hope to see you all on the field. Good luck.

*rubs belly in circular motion*

Cheers

 

[Spr.Earl]

First off we are all Sappers,we all belong to a Field Engineer Squadron,er go we are still Field Engineers.

 

[Chimo]

we are still Field Engineers.

:warstory:

Earl you obviously didn't get the memo, as of 01 Jan 04, we are all Combat Engineers 043.