Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18

[Furniture]

Just had a town hall with the RCAF CWO, the air force is proceeding with a new non-safety boot project... So there is no plan at this time to expand the BOOTFORGEN awesomeness to the RCAF Wings.

On the bright side in about 17 years or so the RCAF will go with a boot purchase programme similar to what the CA is doing now.  :not-again:

 

[kev994]

You can’t get leading change points without a new boot project.

 

[dimsum]

Just had a town hall with the RCAF CWO, the air force is proceeding with a new non-safety boot project... So there is no plan at this time to expand the BOOTFORGEN awesomeness to the RCAF Wings.

On the bright side in about 17 years or so the RCAF will go with a boot purchase programme similar to what the CA is doing now.  :not-again:

Will they finally recognize that not all RCAF members need safety boots, including half of the aircrew?

 

[Sub_Guy]

How much time and effort is wasted on these projects.

FFS.  Why can’t we just have a fucking boot allowance.  Do we really need project after fucking project?  It’s not complicated, we aren’t rebuilding Skylab here, it’s boots...

I’m growing tired of the same old crap, especially since more often than not the solution is simple.  Yet we always take the long complicated route.  I know I’m a cynic, but these projects do nothing more than boost individual PERs, when in reality individuals should be penalized for their inefficiencies.

 

[daftandbarmy]

How much time and effort is wasted on these projects.

FFS.  Why can’t we just have a ******* boot allowance.  Do we really need project after ******* project?  It’s not complicated, we aren’t rebuilding Skylab here, it’s boots...

I’m growing tired of the same old crap, especially since more often than not the solution is simple.  Yet we always take the long complicated route.  I know I’m a cynic, but these projects do nothing more than boost individual PERs, when in reality individuals should be penalized for their inefficiencies.

But you're getting some brand new fighter jets, right?

 

[Good2Golf]

But you're getting some brand new fighter jets, right?

I see what you did there... 

;D

 

[SupersonicMax]

But you're getting some brand new fighter jets, right?

If by new you mean they’ve never been on a canadian register then brand spanking new ;D

 

[Zoomie]

Way too much talk about boots by the RCAF.  I’m wearing the same pair of issued army WWB from 2002.  Probably the last time I polished them too...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Way too much talk about boots by the RCAF.  I’m wearing the same pair of issued army WWB from 2002.  Probably the last time I polished them too...

That sounds unsafe.  What if you dropped your coffee cup and injured yourself on duty?  I've heard VAC won't cover your injury.... :tsktsk:

 

[daftandbarmy]

If by new you mean they’ve never been on a canadian register then brand spanking new ;D

Let's just hope they've pried the 'tinnies' and fag butts out of the ejector mechanisms...

 

[PuckChaser]

Don't worry guys, only took the Army 20 years to figure it out. At least you got leather jackets.

 

[dimsum]

Don't worry guys, only took the Army 20 years to figure it out. At least you got leather jackets.

...which you can’t wear flying.  Who thought that would be a good idea?!

 

[cld617]

...which you can’t wear flying.  Who thought that would be a good idea?!

Officers who think it's reasonable to add a $400 piece of optional kit for walking to/from their car.

 

[Rheostatic]

Since during phase 1 we have to confirm that the boots meet the four criteria listed in the CANFORGEN, I think it would be helpful to have a list of the boots that are confirmed to be compliant (to save us all from repeating the work).

For example, I have someone who wants to buy a pair of Rocky S2V: https://www.rockyboots.com/rocky/mens/footwear/rocky-s2v-tactical-military-boot/FQ0000102.html

(1). COLOUR. BROWN IS PREFERRED, BUT BLACK OR TAN IS ACCEPTABLE AS PART OF PHASE 1.
OK, available in black or coyote brown.

(2). TEMPERATURE RANGE. SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN TEMPERATE CONDITIONS, BETWEEN PLUS 4 CELSIUS AND PLUS 35 CELSIUS.
Probably OK, but "We do not give our garments or boots a temperature rating because multiple factors affect how an item performs in the cold (fit, activity level, personal tolerance to cold)."

(3). HEIGHT. MINIMUM 15 CM, MAXIMUM 23CM, AS MEASURED FROM INSIDE THE BOOT, ON TOP OF THE FOOTBED TO THE HIGHEST POINT.
"8 Inches in height". They're 20.3 cm on the outside so probably OK for the inside measurement.

(4). SOLE. NON-MARKING, FUEL, OIL, AND ACID RESISTANT NITRILE RUBBER OUTSOLE.
Non-compliant. From the manufacturer's website:

· 2 months ago 
Hello, I am looking at these boots for the Canadian armed forces new boot reimbursement program. The program requires eligible boots to be the following: (4). SOLE. NON-MARKING, FUEL, OIL, AND ACID RESISTANT NITRILE RUBBER OUTSOLE. Do they?

answer
CS help 2
· 2 months ago 
Hello, I do apologize that it took me a while to reply. I had to do some research and reach out to our product development team and our Commercial Military sales vice president. Unfortunately these boots do not comply with the Canadian armed forces. I am sorry we were not able to help.

Am I being too picky here? I notice that CANEX sells these boots.

 

[BDTyre]

That's funny, because I have a PowerPoint dated 1 Dec 2017 from 1 CMBG and the second slide states "The first 5 slides are the boots that rated highest across the Bde, the other recommendations made the list, but, didn’t score high enough to make the list that was submitted to Div.  All boots on list meet the requirements laid out in CANFORGEN 127/18."

And lo and behold, #3 of the top 5 is the Rocky S2V Tactical Military Boot. Of course, my boss has already signed off on Rockys for several people and we have others who've been wearing them for a few years.

I'd trust the manufacturer...obviously some more research was needed before compiling the list.

Since during phase 1 we have to confirm that the boots meet the four criteria listed in the CANFORGEN, I think it would be helpful to have a list of the boots that are confirmed to be compliant (to save us all from repeating the work).

For example, I have someone who wants to buy a pair of Rocky S2V: https://www.rockyboots.com/rocky/mens/footwear/rocky-s2v-tactical-military-boot/FQ0000102.html

(1). COLOUR. BROWN IS PREFERRED, BUT BLACK OR TAN IS ACCEPTABLE AS PART OF PHASE 1.
OK, available in black or coyote brown.

(2). TEMPERATURE RANGE. SHOULD BE DESIGNED TO OPERATE IN TEMPERATE CONDITIONS, BETWEEN PLUS 4 CELSIUS AND PLUS 35 CELSIUS.
Probably OK, but "We do not give our garments or boots a temperature rating because multiple factors affect how an item performs in the cold (fit, activity level, personal tolerance to cold)."

(3). HEIGHT. MINIMUM 15 CM, MAXIMUM 23CM, AS MEASURED FROM INSIDE THE BOOT, ON TOP OF THE FOOTBED TO THE HIGHEST POINT.
"8 Inches in height". They're 20.3 cm on the outside so probably OK for the inside measurement.

(4). SOLE. NON-MARKING, FUEL, OIL, AND ACID RESISTANT NITRILE RUBBER OUTSOLE.
Non-compliant. From the manufacturer's website:
Am I being too picky here? I notice that CANEX sells these boots.

 

[RocketRichard]

That's funny, because I have a PowerPoint dated 1 Dec 2017 from 1 CMBG and the second slide states "The first 5 slides are the boots that rated highest across the Bde, the other recommendations made the list, but, didn’t score high enough to make the list that was submitted to Div.  All boots on list meet the requirements laid out in CANFORGEN 127/18."

And lo and behold, #3 of the top 5 is the Rocky S2V Tactical Military Boot. Of course, my boss has already signed off on Rockys for several people and we have others who've been wearing them for a few years.

I'd trust the manufacturer...obviously some more research was needed before compiling the list.

Speaking of boots. Has anyone found a good pair of brown leather boots yet? I was going to buy Lowa Mountains in brown but they’re all sold out. Any other suggestions?  TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IRepoCans]

There's some offerings from across the pond:

Altberg boots in MOD Brown (a whole slew of variants), Hanwag SF LX/GTX Boots again in MOD Brown, and they even have an higher cut Aku Pilgrim in MOD Brown.

All of which are highly received, especially the latter two. They are, however, pricey given the conversion from Pounds to CAD plus shipping.

 

[Rheostatic]

These guys are advertising the Altberg Defender as CANFORGEN 127/18-Compliant, which is nice to see.
https://rampartcorp.com/collections/boots/products/bootforgen?variant=13590965190767
Hopefully we'll start seeing product details that show compliance with the CAF temperature and sole requirements, like we see with boots marketed to US and UK soldiers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The majority of aftermarket boots I've seen worn in the last few years have been rockeys.

I can't help but wonder if the sole criteria was put in place to accommodate certain Canadian made boots down the road a couple years when we will be buying from a specific approved list online.

 

[Rheostatic]

That's funny, because I have a PowerPoint dated 1 Dec 2017 from 1 CMBG and the second slide states "The first 5 slides are the boots that rated highest across the Bde, the other recommendations made the list, but, didn’t score high enough to make the list that was submitted to Div.  All boots on list meet the requirements laid out in CANFORGEN 127/18."

Got a link you can share?