CO-ED Accommodation

[Blackadder1916]

1. Is she the only Canadian female officer in the TF?

Maybe the question should be - is the "Cpl" the only Canadian NCM or the only Jr NCM. You can't have officers (or Sergeants Major) sharing quarters with lesser classes. That was obvious from a recent incident (discussed in another thread) in which a US Navy officer who was so fearful of the threat from non-commissioned contamination that he objected to being assigned married quarters in the enlisted area.

From the limited info on-line about the Canadian presence in Bahrain, there doesn't seem to be a large contingent.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/servces/operations/military-operations/current-operations/operation-artemis.html

January 27, 2021 - Commodore Dan Charlebois of the Royal Canadian Navy assumed command of Combined Task Force 150 (CTF 150), during a change of command ceremony held at Naval Support Activity, Bahrain. Commodore Charlebois assumed command from Rear Admiral Sulieman Al Faqeeh of the Royal Saudi Navy.

How many people are deployed?
There are currently seven CAF members on Operation ARTEMIS.

If those seven include the Commodore (and I wouldn't begrudge him an apartment to himself - though they probably have a villa for him) it's what - four appartments.

Or are those numbers separate and distinct from

Operation FOUNDATION - Canada.ca

Counter-terrorism efforts in the Middle East, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

www.canada.ca

There are approximately 16 CAF members deployed on Operation FOUNDATION. These personnel serve with a variety of United States headquarters:

• U.S. Central Command (USCENTCOM) in Tampa
• U.S. Air Forces Central (AFCENT) in Qatar
• U.S. Naval Forces Central (US NAVCENT) in Bahrain
• Combined Maritime Forces (CMF) in Bahrain
• U.S. Army Central (USARCENT) Combined Joint Operations

Or are all unhappily living non-co-ed?

How did they house the four Canadian females in this photo from early March?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1368848974740881409

 

[TCM621]

I have experienced Co-ed living arrangements twice in the CAF. The first time was during on a course with 2 females in an H hut. A duty NCO stayed in shacks with us to deter any fraternization. We also had to split use of one communal shower room which made for some very awkward showers with 30 guys trying to shower in the 2 minutes the girls left us. The second was on another course 2 years later. This time the females had segregated rooms away from the rest of the platoon. The Pl Comd didn't like the idea of segregating 2 members from the rest of the platoon, so after discussing it with the females moved them in to the communal barracks area (they had their own washrooms). He was blunt and said, you are all adults and professionals, I fucking expect you to act like it. In both cases, nothing untoward happened. I have also lived in segregated barracks where people would have put rabbits to shame. I won't even mention the shenanigan's that happened on ship when I was at sea.

This is purely anecdotal but I don't think Co-ed sleeping arrangements means sexual misconduct will occur. Having ones own bedroom in an apartment is more than separate enough as far as I am concerned. If you can't trust your troops to stay in their own bedrooms, I suggest we stop trusting them with difficult things like guns, aircraft or ship maintenance or flying until you do. If someone betrays that trust, then you deal with them appropriately.

 

[dimsum]

You can't have officers (or Sergeants Major) sharing quarters with lesser classes. That was obvious from a recent incident (discussed in another thread) in which a US Navy officer who was so fearful of the threat from non-commissioned contamination that he objected to being assigned married quarters in the enlisted area.

I thought it turned out that officer was a Mustang (former enlisted)?

This is purely anecdotal but I don't think Co-ed sleeping arrangements means sexual misconduct will occur. Having ones own bedroom in an apartment is more than separate enough as far as I am concerned. If you can't trust your troops to stay in their own bedrooms, I suggest we stop trusting them with difficult things like guns, aircraft or ship maintenance or flying until you do. If someone betrays that trust, then you deal with them appropriately.

Yep.

 

[FSTO]

Maybe the question should be - is the "Cpl" the only Canadian NCM or the only Jr NCM. You can't have officers (or Sergeants Major) sharing quarters with lesser classes. That was obvious from a recent incident (discussed in another thread) in which a US Navy officer who was so fearful of the threat from non-commissioned contamination that he objected to being assigned married quarters in the enlisted area.

From the limited info on-line about the Canadian presence in Bahrain, there doesn't seem to be a large contingent.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/servces/operations/military-operations/current-operations/operation-artemis.html

If those seven include the Commodore (and I wouldn't begrudge him an apartment to himself - though they probably have a villa for him) it's what - four appartments.

Or are those numbers separate and distinct from

Operation FOUNDATION - Canada.ca

Counter-terrorism efforts in the Middle East, North Africa and Southwest Asia.

www.canada.ca

Or are all unhappily living non-co-ed?

How did they house the four Canadian females in this photo from early March?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1368848974740881409

The Cpl is with URSA detachment (2 Cpls, 1 MCpl, and 1 Sgt IC 1 woman and 3 men). They are part of Op Foundation.
Also in Op Foundation is 1 Cdr (SNR) 1 LCol (ACE) 2 LCdrs, 1 Lt(N) 1 WO and 1 PO2

The Cmdre and the rest of Op ARTEMIS - CTF 150 are in a different Apartment block (right beside ours) and there is a an even number of women who share 2 bedroom apartments.

Will not comment on the morale of CTF-150
The Cpl is likely on cloud nine that she has a whole apartment to herself, the two LCdrs not so much

The Cpl is in the back left, the other Canadians are with CTF-150 (the civilian is the CTF-150 POLAD)

 

[SupersonicMax]

This is purely anecdotal but I don't think Co-ed sleeping arrangements means sexual misconduct will occur. Having ones own bedroom in an apartment is more than separate enough as far as I am concerned. If you can't trust your troops to stay in their own bedrooms, I suggest we stop trusting them with difficult things like guns, aircraft or ship maintenance or flying until you do. If someone betrays that trust, then you deal with them appropriately.

Is this a risk that the CoC is willing to take? What is the reward for the institution vs the risk it takes? In the current climate, they would (rightfully) rather deal with any potential sexual misconduct preemptively than punish after the fact.

You are on deployment! Consider yourself lucky to have you own room.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Is this a risk that the CoC is willing to take? What is the reward for the institution vs the risk it takes? In the current climate, they would (rightfully) rather deal with any potential sexual misconduct preemptively than punish after the fact.

You are on deployment! Consider yourself lucky to have you own room.

Nature will find a way....

I recall ordering the CSM to conduct a fire picquet type patrol of the hootchies on one FTX when I heard about some shagging going on in another unit.

Apparently my Plan A, run everyone around so much with all their gear on during the day so they're exhausted and collapse in a heap, worked wonders

 

[Halifax Tar]

If the 2 LCdr's moral is effected that adversely by having to share quarters together they've led a pampered career and should spend some time on inward reflection while they look at that massive LCdr to Cpl pay difference.

Finding it hard to have any sympathy, if you cant tell.

As for the gender thing. On my threes there was a mix up in names and I shared a mod room with a female. Course staff asked if we could be mature about it and we did. Cleaned the room together and maintained respect towards changing and abolution practices.

No biggie.

 

[FSTO]

Is this a risk that the CoC is willing to take? What is the reward for the institution vs the risk it takes? In the current climate, they would (rightfully) rather deal with any potential sexual misconduct preemptively than punish after the fact.

You are on deployment! Consider yourself lucky to have you own room.

You guys seem to think I'm complaining! I'm not at all!

 

[FSTO]

If the 2 LCdr's moral is effected that adversely by having to share quarters together they've led a pampered career and should spend some time on inward reflection while they look at that massive LCdr to Cpl pay difference.

Finding it hard to have any sympathy, if you cant tell.

As for the gender thing. On my threes there was a mix up in names and I shared a mod room with a female. Course staff asked if we could be mature about it and we did. Cleaned the room together and maintained respect towards changing and abolution practices.

No biggie.

Do you understand sarcasm emoji's.

Geez, this covid thing has affected everyones sense of ha ha!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Do you understand sarcasm emoji's.

Geez, this covid thing has affected everyones sense of ha ha!

There's something about whiney pampered Naval officers whining that tends to set people off You have a large number of people on This forum who've lived in austere conditions for extended periods, who will find the issues you present to be pedantic and come off as sounding like spoiled children.

Perhaps spending all time prior to being HOD living in a mess deck would provide some much needed humble pie and getting rid of stewards for everyone with the exception of the CO.

Where was the sarcasm emoji ? I seem to have missed it.

 

[FSTO]

There's something about whiney pampered Naval officers whining that tends to set people off You have a large number of people on This forum who've lived in austere conditions for extended periods, who will find the issues you present to be pedantic and come off as sounding like spoiled children.

Perhaps spending all time prior to being HOD living in a mess deck would provide some much needed humble pie and getting rid of stewards for everyone with the exception of the CO.

Where was the sarcasm emoji ? I seem to have missed it.

Hey, I did my MARS II in HMCS Q'APPELLE as deck force, part ship hands, boats crew and cleaning stations. I have an idea of what goes on below decks.

I also started off with the caveat of:

A little bit of a whine here (okay, compared to the folks living in dry tents in the desert, we don't have a leg to stand on.)

I guess I need to be more overt in my self-depreciation!

 

[Blackadder1916]

The Cpl is in the back left, . . .

With the Air Force beret? Oh, in that case it's only natural that she gets quarters better than others.

 

[dimsum]

With the Air Force beret? Oh, in that case it's only natural that she gets quarters better than others.

Hey, we have a reputation to uphold.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hey, we have a reputation to uphold.

 

[TCM621]

Is this a risk that the CoC is willing to take? What is the reward for the institution vs the risk it takes? In the current climate, they would (rightfully) rather deal with any potential sexual misconduct preemptively than punish after the fact.

You are on deployment! Consider yourself lucky to have you own room.

Every night I am not sleeping in a trench is beautiful thing, and I have shared a ranger blanket with my fair share of people. Trust me I appreciate my RCAF privilege. My point is that if having your own room isn't enough and you have to segregate by apartment, we have bigger problems than anyone ever realized. Obviously it makes sense to segregate given the opportunity but it should also be dictated by operational necessity. I don't think "fairness" is an operational necessity, however.

 

[SupersonicMax]

My point is that if having your own room isn't enough and you have to segregate by apartment, we have bigger problems than anyone ever realized.

I am pretty sure we are at that point now.

 

[quadrapiper]

What is the reward for the institution vs the risk it takes?

Potentially, a replication of the Norwegian experience, if the cultural inputs were close enough for the same outcomes to occur.

 

[Messerschmitt]

They also have coed saunas and showers.

Like in Starship Troopers?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Potentially, a replication of the Norwegian experience, if the cultural inputs were close enough for the same outcomes to occur.

Well, Norway has conscription so their imperatives are somewhat different from ours.

And they're Scandinavian. Again, despite all outward appearances, a very different culture from ours in many ways. So I'd use caution when trying to compare our 'co-ed living needs' with theirs.

We might take a look at universities for good examples of co-ed living arrangements to emulate.

Except, you know, Mill Coll

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If you want to know the reaction reaction, ask your wife.

"While on deployment for 6 months, I'll be sharing an apartment with a female Cpl. Just the two of us, but separate bedrooms, so it's cool. Right? Are you having a stroke dear? I've never seen that face before"