Close Air Support in the CF: Bring back something like the CF-5 or introduce something with props?

[thunderchild]

I'd buy enough to re equip the snow birds if the condition of the aircraft and price was right.

 

[Loachman]

I'd buy enough to re equip the snow birds if the condition of the aircraft and price was right.

I'd just let people with real knowledge decide when the Tutor needs replacement and with what to replace it.

And it's "Snowbirds". One word, starting with a capital "S".

The first requirement for membership on the replacement-picking team is proper spelling of the unit of those whose lives you're playing with.

 

[observor 69]

I'd just let people with real knowledge decide when the Tutor needs replacement and with what to replace it.

And it's "Snowbirds". One word, starting with a capital "S".

The first requirement for membership on the replacement-picking team is proper spelling of the unit of those whose lives you're playing with.

I thought "people with real knowledge " had already said that the Snowbird are overdue for a new aircraft and as new aircrew are trained on the Hawk and the aircraft meets the teams flight profile requirements it would make an ideal replacement ?

 

[aesop081]

the aircraft meets the teams flight profile requirements it would make an ideal replacement ?

When i flew with the team, the ones i talked to didnt agree with what you just posted.

 

[observor 69]

This report was the line of thought I was referring to.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/06/24/snowbirds-jets.html

Agreed pilots differ in their choice of a replacement aircraft.

 

[Cleared Hot]

So I just found this thread and I have always had a question maybe someone here can answer.  I should point out that I am of the opinion that Canada will always opt for multi-role vice single purpose equipment i.e. we would never buy an A-10 (for example) we are just too small for that kind of specialization.  That being said, we have in our inventory one airframe which would make one of the best CAS platforms ever - the CP-140.  Throw some hardpoints with LGBs, JDAMs and Hellfires underneath, add a Sniper Pod and you are rockin'.  Theoretically you would have almost unmatched on station time, the ability to have dedicated image analysts on board giving real time analysis of target data, unbelievable comms and RRB capabilities, a large amount of firepower, standoff / stealth, its endurance would mean the home base would not have to be right in the immediate area, so the austere air field requirements would not be an issue etc. etc.

I understand that they already have an important role to play, but they have just added an ISR capability to their repertoire so why not take that to the next logical level?  They are already very good at working jointly (albeit mostly with the Navy although they are working more with the guys in green as of late).  The crews are already used to fighting an air-to-surface battle so why not make it over land in addition to over sea?  So I guess my question is with all the P-3 variants out there internationally, why have they never tried to make one for CAS.  My initial thought is with all the CAS capable a/c in the US inventory there was just no need to spend money developing another.  How hard would it be for Canada to do on their own?

Anyway, just a thought.

-CH

 

[aesop081]

one of the best CAS platforms ever - the CP-140. 

Ever been in one ?

Throw some hardpoints

The CP-140 already has hardpoints. Some we can mount on the wings, the others are mounted in the bomb bay. Where do you think we hang all those Mk46 Mod V torpedoes from ?

add a Sniper Pod and you are rockin'. 

Sniper...sure. But why not take advantage of that spiffey, new MX-20 EOIR instead ?

Theoretically you would have almost unmatched on station time,

Outmatched by anything that can be refueld in flight.

the ability to have dedicated image analysts on board giving real time analysis of target data,

AES Op will do nicely thanks...... ;D

I understand that they already have an important role to play,

Yup

but they have just added an ISR capability to their repertoire

Thats what we have always done....we just recently adopted this buzzword and took it over land. Thankfully we are now getting a moving map display so i dont have to contort myself in my seat trying to read a paper map.....oh and TCDL will be nice too !

why have they never tried to make one for CAS. 

10,000  P-3 operators cant be wrong.........

 

[Cleared Hot]

Ever been in one?

Yep. And I even crashed the Sim in the H.C into the A.V's north mountain.

The CP-140 already has hardpoints. Some we can mount on the wings, the others are mounted in the bomb bay. Where do you think we hang all those Mk46 Mod V torpedoes from ?

Fair enough, I was talking more about the weapons and any mods (if any) you would have to make to accomodate A-G weapons.

Sniper...sure. But why not take advantage of that spiffey, new MX-20 EOIR instead ?

Can the MX-20 EOIR laser designate?  You don't have to answer that.

Outmatched by anything that can be refueld in flight.

It sucks when you are getting shot at and the birds have to leave to top up.  Ever been in that situation?

AES Op will do nicely thanks...... ;D

I'll take your word for it.

Yup

Thats what we have always done....we just recently adopted this buzzword and took it over land. Thankfully we are now getting a moving map display so i dont have to contort myself in my seat trying to read a paper map.....oh and TCDL will be nice too !

I guess that's my point.  No offence but the realist in me says the move to over land was because someone felt there might not be enough work over water - don't worry I don't agree.

10,000  P-3 operators cant be wrong.........

No but we don't have A-10, B1, B-52, B-2 F-15E, F-16, AH, AC-130, Reaper, Pred Av-8B...

Edited for formatting.

 

[Cleared Hot]

Sorry that didn't come out the way I wanted... still getting the hang of this quote thing.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

No but we don't have A-10, B1, B-52, B-2 F-15E, F-16, AH, AC-130, Reaper, Pred Av-8B...

And you think we can support so many different airframes ???

Please give your head a shake.

 

[Cleared Hot]

What post are you reading?  My point was because we aren't big enough for that we have to double hat what we do have and the Aurora properly configured would also make a good CAS aircraft.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

What post are you reading?  My point was because we aren't big enough for that we have to double hat what we do have and the Aurora properly configured would also make a good CAS aircraft.

Yours..... http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/40352/post-787962.html#msg787962

 

[Cleared Hot]

Right and maybe you should have read the first one I posted that said we will never buy an A-10.

 

[thunderchild]

Here are two aircraft being marked as F-5 fighter replacements that may do the job, first South Korea's A-50 attack aircraft it uses the same engine and radar as the F-18C, and is basically an 80% size version of the F-16C, it has a decent weapons load it can carry AIM-9L's, Mavericks, MK-80's and a 20mm cannon and other weapons.  It's cost is some were between 22-25 million per aircraft.  The other fighter is the Indigenous Defence Fighter made in Taiwan, it has 2 engines but it is regarded as being under powered.  It does have better weapons than the A-50 but much shorter "legs". 

 

[Good2Golf]

Capital procurement budgets are so strained that there really is not even a faint hope of consideration being given to such a niche role as CAS/OAS.

 

[aesop081]

Here are two aircraft being marked as F-5 fighter replacements that may do the job, first South Korea's A-50 attack aircraft it uses the same engine and radar as the F-18C, and is basically an 80% size version of the F-16C, it has a decent weapons load it can carry AIM-9L's, Mavericks, MK-80's and a 20mm cannon and other weapons.  It's cost is some were between 22-25 million per aircraft.  The other fighter is the Indigenous Defence Fighter made in Taiwan, it has 2 engines but it is regarded as being under powered.  It does have better weapons than the A-50 but much shorter "legs". 

Are you going to be posting here very time you get an idea from reading Jane's ( or whatever it is you are reading ) ?

 

[rampage800]

Ummm

Maybe we should outfit the aircraft we do have to properly support CAS before we purchase something else, maybe even some new munitions. Just a thought.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Ummm

Maybe we should outfit the aircraft we do have to properly support CAS before we purchase something else, maybe even some new munitions. Just a thought.

What do you suggest?

 

[ironduke57]

Jericho Trompeten! (Jericho Trumpet´s) ;D

SCNR,
ironduke57

 

[a_majoor]

Maybe we should outfit the aircraft we do have to properly support CAS before we purchase something else, maybe even some new munitions. Just a thought.

Interesting question. We know that the IAF is making pin point attacks using their F-16's and F-15's over the Gaza strip, maybe we should look into what they are using and how it is being used.

Various issues come to mind:

Do the aircraft carry their own dedicated sensors or are the pilots being cued?
What munitions are being used?
How are the pilots trained to discriminate targets in heavily cluttered environments?
Are they actually being used for CAS or are they prepping the battlespace well clear of the IDF ground forces?

People better versed in the art might also think of a few questions.