Civvies in the dark.

[Sh0rtbUs]

One of the lessons Mr. Dallaire learned from his father as a youth, is in order to be a soldier, you cant expect a thank you from anyone, because you arent going to get it. Gaining recognition from the media would be great, but not so we can all be glorified and get some attention. Its so maybe people will at least acknowledge that we're here, and lead to some pressure on the higher powers to spiff us up a bit.

Just my .02

 

[Sheerin]

The Canadian public, by and large, is completely ignorant when it comes to our armed forces and from what I've seen very little actually care.  While in school (albeit, Trent is known as one of the more leftist schools) all I seem to hear about the military is that they're nothing but a bunch of sociopaths who want to go into villages and kill everyone because they may be commie bastards.  I've, on several occasions, tried to educate my friends about the forces but they don't seem to care.  Although most are surprised when I tell them about the domestic missions they perform.  But the general responce is (why do they need weapons if thats what they do?).  Most believe that Canada would be better off if we diverted the money we spend on the military to other programmes, like financial aid for 3 º world nations etc. 

As for news aagencies they just don't seem to care either.  Local news in Toronto has more to do with US military actions than Canadian.  Maybe if we got into a shooting war the news networks would care?  But then again the public sentiment would probably be "Bring our troops home, we don't want them to kill other people". 

Inch - That was a nice story, its too bad no one in the media seemed to pick it up.   

 

[Scratch_043]

here here

 

[sgt_mandal]

If an debate is needed about Cadet exposure in Canadian society, or youth groups exposure in general, then perhaps a relevent thread can be opened up in the Cadet forum.

My appologies, I read the initial post and thought "This is happening with cadets too" so I posted here rather than wasting bandwith oppening one in the cadet forum.

 

[bigwig]

I think there are way to many civvies left in the dark about our Military. The best example of this comes from a conversation with my aunt I had the other day. We were talking about me and how Im starting my BMQ for 031 Infantry in a few weeks, and she wasn't to sure of what our army did. I told her that the army does lots of things, one of which is deployment. I told her that we have troops in afghanastan, bosnia, haiti etc... She didn't even believe me that we had troops in bosnia and haiti... she thought we only had a small ammount in afghanastan.

Another thing she asked me which left me asking myself if she was being serious or not was, and I Quote "You dont get to shoot guns or anything like that at basic training do you?" and I thought she was joking, but she was serious!

Then I told her after Im done BMQ/SQ/BIQ that I continue training with my regiment on various things, and she asked me "what do you mean training?" and I was tired of beating around the bush so I came right out and said we train on how to kill, and she flipped out saying that I wasnt a murderer or a killer etc.....

I look back on this conversation and its hard to piece together how someone can be so out of touch with the military....

I agree we need to definatly get some more POSITIVE media coverage on our military so the civilian population can understand exactly what we are all about so we won't have people left in the dark as to what we do.

P.S. I think truth, duty, valour is a great way of enforcing this....

anyways thats my 2 cents
Cheers

 

[Genetk44]

The Canadian public, by and large, is completely ignorant when it comes to our armed forces and from what i've seen very little actually care.  

That's my point......it's hard to care about something if you are ignorant about it.

 

[Sig_Des]

A lot of people don't realize the place the military holds in society. Sure every once in a while people notice and say thanks, but people have huge misconceptions about who we are and what we do.

A couple of weeks ago I was in uniform waiting for a bus to my unit, and this little girl asks her mother (In French, and i guess they didn't expect me to speak it) why is that guy dressed like that. And the mother says " That's a soldier. He's learning a trade, getting to see things, and if there's a war, he'll go fight for the country". Actually one of the happiest moments of my career. But there's the other side of the coin, when some kids who are sitting around doing nothing, and say things when they don't know anything about it.

People ask you why you joined up, and how can you do it. Be trained to kill, trained to fight. We do thing most people wouldn't even consider doing, and they can't fathom it. I think a big part of this is that our position in Canadian society is misunderstood, because the general public just doesn't get to see much.

People see the airborne incident, the video clips of sea kings crash landing, that kind of thing. You'll find that most people in military communities do have a better understanding, and more of a respect for the forces, but you usually don't get that in more metropolitan areas.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Its all about the PR. i was doing some side recruitment "work" with a Sgt. not long ago (just greeting possible recruits and sharing my experiences with them). Had a young boy somewhere around the ages of 10 walk by, do a double take and say "whoa, you guys look cool". We struck up small chat with the eager guy, and i let him try on my beret for his mom. He left that experience with a positive view of the military and its personnel. little things like this are what will slowly help develop a more positive reputation for the Army, rather than simply blowing off the civis.

Maybe someday when someone says negatively about the CF, that young boy will recall that day and throw in his 2 cents on the issue.

 

[pbi]

And I think we're all bunch of whiners. >


OK-I don't really think that, but let me offer a different perspective. I will bore the audience by yet again referring to the   past, when I first put on a uniform in 1974. In those days, the attitude of the general public ranged from apathy to outright hostility. Wearing a uniform on public transit, on the street, etc. was a guarantee that as a minimum you would be yelled at by passing hippy idiots or other scum, and more often than not you could get into a confrontation. The Left was in full control in our education system, especially universities.(They are certainly still there, but IMHO our campuses are in general far more middle of the road than they were then)

Sorry, but I just do not see that attitude ANYWHERE today. I have had ordinary citizens (including on some occasions Aboriginals, who you might assum as a group might not be our biggest fan club) come up to me on the street   or in a restaurant when they see me in uniform and thank me for what Canadian soldiers are doing. I live in a civilian neighborhood of normal, working middle class people and the attitude is very good.People are almost in awe of what we do.   I have spoken in universities, in high schools, in public schools and at business associations and I honestly cannot recall even receiving a negative comment. Quite the opposite. In fact, some of the public school Remembrance Day ceremonies I have attended have touched me very deeply by the obvious seriousness and dedication of the kids to the event.

As for the media, they were not put on earth to be nice to us. And, if we are really honest we will admit that the media in this country has played a real, if somewhat blunt and painful, role in exposing and cleaning up an institution that IMHO had sunk into many very bad habits because it was virtually free of public scrutiny. That institution, the CF in general and our Army in particular, needed a catharsis. We got it: just too bad it was largely induced by outsiders. As for the media coverage we get today, I suggest that folks take a bit broader look at what is actually being published. If you are in the military, contact your PAO shop and get their press clipping and media summary file: this will let you see what's being said all across the country, in print and on the waves.IMHO we miht not get as much as we want, but what we get is generally good. And, again IMHO, it has improved immeasureably over the last decade. If civilians are not well informed, it is because they choose not to be: any of them could go to the DND website, to this website, or ask to visit one of their local units. They can ask for guest speakers (I always encourage all my folks, regardless of rank, to get out and talk to the public..) or whatever. I submit to you that while Canadians are not generally well informed about the military, it is not out of hatred, or any govt conspiracy, or the failure of our PAOs. It is simply because they can't be bothered.  

Look-it's all relative. I've sat in a classroom with US officers and listened to them whine about how they have no public support and that the US people don't understand them. I almost puked, coming from a Canadian background: they have no idea.   IMHO they only thing we can do is what we do now: write, speak, do community footprint stuff, talk to your neighbours, wear your uniform in public, treat the media as decently as you can. And, most important   all, act like a professional. Cheers.

 

[Devlin]

Wow what a great thread you guys have going here. I'm a PAO (PAFFO) for my unit and I can certainly see a change of attitudes "out there" amongst the civilian population. This is not only because of the promotional work of other PAO's throughout the forces but through the image that you all present when your waiting for a bus, running into the grocery store, etc ...

The bad news pieces will always lead the evening news or make the front page of the paper. This is an unfortunate reality of the world we live in. The old saying "if it bleeds it leads" still rings ture at a lot of media outlets. The average Canadians' perspective of the CF and anyone who wears the green pajamas is that they are an infanteer who digs ditches and fires a rifle. We have to continue to educate and provide understanding amongst people, in order to change an attitude or dispell a myth. The average Joe out on the street can't "see past the green (or the CADPAT as the case may be)".

I can share stories of a full colonel standing downtown Ottawa in his dress uniform and being stopped and asked about the local bus schedule; you guessed it the guy on the street thought he was a city bus driver. Kinda sad...I've been asked how I like my new "cammies" and what "Boot Camp" is like. Seems that most Canadians are very 'americanized' when it comes to their understanding of things military.

 

[pbi]

The average Canadians' perspective of the CF and anyone who wears the green pajamas is that they are an infanteer who digs ditches and fires a rifle.

And there's something wrong with that......? Cheers.

 

[Sig_Des]

Seems that most Canadians are very 'americanized' when it comes to their understanding of things military.

That's because the publics understanding of the military comes from Hoolywood. The likes of Full Metal Jacket & Platoon, those kinds of films.

In fact, I can think of only one production on the Canadian military, and that was a CBC film about a Canadian Platoon in Bosnia, I think it was called "Peacekeepers". Actually not too bad.

All in all, I'm sure there's a good public view of soldiers themselves, but it's a public view of the actual institution that may not be so good. That's what needs to be worked on

 

[Bograt]

The civy ignorance is due to the fact that the new media are for lack of a better term "Stunned as me arse" Just yesterday, a Cormorant crew from Gander and a Herc crew from Greenwood rescued 4 people who were on a capsized shrimp trawler. In near zero visability, and tropical storm winds the Cormorant lowered a SARTEC guy in 8-10 meter seas on to a 6 man inflatable dingy and rescued a man who didn't have an exposure suit. On the extraction the hoist overheated, and the pilots landed on a cliff percifice and 2 SARTEC repelled down a cliff and rescued two more guys. The Fourth was able to make to shore on his own. The fifth person the Sartec guys secured the body and retrieved it later today. The sixth is still missing.

The CBC referred to the aircraft as a Coast Guard helicopter. They then showed a file picture of a Labrador. They continued with wondering if the hoist problem was responsible for the loss of two fisherman.

CBC Bastards.

 

[jfladeroute]

The civy ignorance is due to the fact that the new media are for lack of a better term "Stunned as me arse"... CBC Bastards.

But not all media come from the same mould - http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/CalgarySun/News/2004/09/21/637368.html - "Feds putting smut before heroes". The article is about a documentary filmed by Garth Pritchard about troops in Afghanistan, and funded independently due to difficulties in obtaining Telefilm Canada funding.

"Luckily for Pritchard and all of Canada, Nancy Southern, the CEO of ATCO, independently and with her own non-corporate dollars, has funded Pritchard's trips to Afghanistan because she "trusts" Pritchard, likes that he's a one-man show and believes nation-building can only be accomplished if we know who we really are.

"I have a really strong belief that we don't do our military justice in Canada," explains Southern.

"Virtually no one is telling the stories of our military heroes and Garth is prepared to go and do that and so that's the reason I'm helping him."

That's great, it really is, but isn't it pathetic that our tax dollars so easily fund porn but not stuff that makes us proud?

Somebody should do a documentary on that."

The sad part is that most Canadians probably won't get an opportunity to see the piece.

 

[NMPeters]

I would like to take a minute to get back to the original post and the suggestion that the tanks being replaced by Strykers was not in the media. I'll have to beg to differ here. The news conference with LGen Hillyer and then MND John MacCallum was on 29 Oct 2003. On 30 Oct 2003, the following newspapers ran the story: Kinston Whig Standard, Edmonton Journal, Toronto Star, Calgary Sun, Saskatoon Star Phoenix, Montreal Gazette, The Province, Winnipeg Free Press, the Guardian, Chronicle Herald, Hamilton Spectator, Le Nouvelliste, Edmonton sun, London Free Press, Winnipeg Sun, The Globe and Mail and the National Post. Subsequent articles were also run by many, if not all, of the above mentioned media in the 2 to 3 days following the initial announcement. It actually made for an interesting debate within the printed news. I'm not sure what televised news broadcast there was covering the story.

Today's military focus, in the media clips, concerns the Prime Minister in meetings to determine whether the CF will actually be providing Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan for the next tour. The daily news is full of stories about the military - not all of it Army, and I think that is where we in uniform here on this board tend to put the blinders on. We forget that news articles on the Navy and Air Force are military coverage as well. I see more and more good news stories concerning the CF everyday. There will be some bad news stories. But the positive coverage is increasing exponentially as the CF works at, and I think I've said this in another post, regaining the trust between us and the media that was destroyed about 10 years ago, if there was any then to begin with. The attitudes of both sides are changing for the better. It won't happen over night but it is changing.

I agree with pbi. Grassroots education is the key to influencing how Canadians perceive the CF. And it cannot just be articles in the newspaper. By the way, the majority of people who read the newspaper will only read the first two or three paragraphs of an article before moving on to the next headline. Connecting with Canadians is one of the objectives of the Army. There are Army Reserve units in 110 communities across the country. These units are windows for Canadians to view the CF. It is true that the smaller communities are more likely to report on their local Reserve unit as opposed to the metropolitan cities, but then the more metropolitan cities tend to look at the global Army or CF as opposed to what's there in their own backyard. But I do stress that making that connection within your communities is the vital. And I wouldn't be so quick to put the Cadet Organization on the back burner as being irrelevant to how the CF is viewed by the general public. Since many of the cadet units are affiliated with Army Reserve Units and wear their cap badges and such, they too are a conduit into the overall perception. The best way that Canadians can be informed as to what the CF is about, is by talking to them.

I don't know who posted it and I can't go back with this computer because I'll lose everything, but I'm a little disturbed by the poster who was speaking with his aunt and was so frustrated by her lack of knowledge of the CF that he said that he trains to kill people. My question is, what did that accomplish? Why could you have not just explained that yes, you do weapons training and handling, because you are training to protect Canada and Canadians at home and abroad and that there may come a time where force will be necessary and you need to be trained for that situation? You could have explained to your aunt all the assistance that the CF has given to Canada domestically over the years. I think that would have educated her a bit and probably left her with a better feeling than that being her nephew is training to murder people.

Education is the key with positive reinforcement. If one person walks away with a positive feeling about us, then they'll tell two friends who will tell two friends and so on and so on and so on (I know I stole that from a shampoo commercial).

(edited for spelling. I hit the post button before the spell check)

 

[42PF]

  Civvies are not in the dark. They simply don't care.

 

[arctictern]

  Civvies are not in the dark. They simply don't care.

This in a sense means that civvies are in "the dark" because they don't know what's going on, think of it metaphorically.

 

[dutchie]

I used to get really bent out of shape when I experienced civies that were really clueless about the military. Now, I don't really care one way or the other. I have chosen this path, but they haven't. I suppose we live in a society that places responsibility for protecting our citizens on some (soldiers), so that the rest of them can go about their lives enjoying the freedom soldiers provide while not concerning themselves with the details.

Of course, EVERY citizen should at least be aware of the sacrifices our soldiers have made (particularly in WW1 & 2), but I no longer require them to know or even care about the latest deployment.

Having said that, I have a passion for the military, and like it when others share my passion, but it's not a requirement of citizenship or a pre-requisite for being a 'good guy'.

 

[Sig_Des]

It is the soldier, not the reporter
who has given us the freedom of press.
It is the soldier, not the poet,
who has given us the freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer,
who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag,
who serves under the flag,
whose coffin is draped by the flag,
and who allows the protester to burn the flag.

"The Soldier"~ by Charles M. Province

 

[Nat. Cap. Girl]

I'm just repeating this question because I didn't get any responses to it, and thought that maybe people didn't see it.

I just discovered Truth, Duty, Valour on OLN, and I thought it was pretty cool, and sheds a positive light on the military.  I'm just a civy, so I wanted to know your (you military folk) opinions of it?