Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

[Halifax Tar]

Recognize the outgoing CO, welcome the New CO. Good lord people it’s one day max.

That certainly is a real necessity.

The "I have better work to do crowd" sure don't turn down the short day I've seen almost universally handed out after full change of command parades either...

If I don't participate in the parade I don't take the days.

How about we don't do the parades so we don't have to add on the days the time wasted ?

 

[Weinie]

Except when it rains.

I have been told that the only two things that melt in rain is shit and sugar. You decide where you fit.

 

[Furniture]

We have Change of Appointment ceremonies for RSM/SSMs within the Army. We also do Mug Outs at Troop or Sqn level for all pers who are posted/moving along so they can get recognition.

There are ways and means to do this are all levels, and it starts with the Pl/Tp/Flt/Div Chains of Command putting the effort in to do so. I honestly get the vibe from this thread that there is something very wrong with the morale and well-being of folks wearing Blue in both shades.

I pity you all if a CoC parade has everyone below the rank of PO1/WO sharpening the guillotine.

Mug outs, and change of appointments I have seen have all been relatively informal, and more of small "ceremony", whereas Change of Command parades tend to be a "parade" with marching and all that... People aren't saying don't mark the change of command, they are saying a parade is hangover from the past. Have a ceremony, make speeches, hand out flowers, etc... just don't make people march up and down the square so the COs feel special. If you want parades, make them about the whole unit, or the whole CAF. Have an Ortona parade, or a Battle of the Atlantic parade, they serve a purpose for all members, not just the "aristocracy".

Lastly, I'm not below the PO1 rank, and I'm not sharpening any guillotines...

So firstly, we do have parades for ongoing RSMs, it's called a change of appointment (or change of stick) parade. I sat through one today, it had a reviewing officer and took 30 mintues.

Secondly, only a single member of a unit has the delegated authority to command on behalf of the superior commander and assume risk (within that delegated authorities and risk matrix). Yes, I'm sure a ton of our traditions are rooted in 18th century British classism, however if you want to think a S3/Pte/Avr has the same significance when they're posted than the CO, you've missed the boat here and maybe are better suited to the public service.

As I mentioned above, I've never seen a whole unit parade for a change of appointment, if it happens it's just as silly as a change of command. Have a ceremony, broadcast it on Teams so the whole team can see... Just don't make people spend days marching up and down a square so that Col/CWO Bloggins feels special.

Ah... the classic, if you don't see things my way, maybe you should quit line. How has that been working for the CAF lately?

 

[SupersonicMax]

I have been told that the only two things that melt in rain is shit and sugar. You decide where you fit.

You seriously propose conducting a CoC parade (signing and all) in the rain? What is it again, promote the welfare of your subordinates?

 

[FSTO]

So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

If we are doing parades to recognize people, why not have a massive parade for all pers posted in and out? Let every S3/Pte/Avr-Adm/Gen have a speech and a some flowers?

I think you’re being a bit silly. But that’s my opinion and not one sanctioned by the movers and shakers in the Navy nor the CAF

 

[Halifax Tar]

I have been told that the only two things that melt in rain is shit and sugar. You decide where you fit.

How does this guy keep getting away with posting this stuff ?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think you’re being a bit silly. But that’s my opinion and not one sanctioned by the movers and shakers in the Navy nor the CAF

I think it's a bit silly to have a parade to recognize a couple years work by a massively paid person who's position just cycles people through every year and half to two years.

Meanwhile the most of the folks were there before and will be there after too. Still slugging away for the next skipper to get their kick at the can done.

 

[Weinie]

Ah... the classic, if you don't see things my way, maybe you should quit line. How has that been working for the CAF lately?

Perhaps we need to publicize the CAF in a new way. "You could be killed". It's a reality that is inherent in the job.

 

[Furniture]

I think you’re being a bit silly. But that’s my opinion and not one sanctioned by the movers and shakers in the Navy nor the CAF

To be fair, I was being intentionally silly.

My point is, was, and will be, Change of Command parades are a hangover from a time when the officers were a different class, and the troops/sailors/airhumans were seen as inferior.

I suspect a smaller, less formal gathering, with close friends and immediate subordinates would likely be more meaningful than a parade where the troops clearly hate being there, and are itching to leave.

 

[Quirky]

Except when it rains.

Don’t forget needing a 4-6 ship for a flyby.

 

[Weinie]

How does this guy keep getting away with posting this stuff ?

Ummmmmm. I pose questions that people answer. To wit, how do you recommend that I be censored? How do you get away with posting that I be censored?

 

[Furniture]

Perhaps we need to publicize the CAF in a new way. "You could be killed". It's a reality that is inherent in the job.

I'm 100% for that, let people know that they are signing up to risk their lives, and mental health for the nation.

Just don't make them march up and down the square so a MWO/CWO/Maj/LCol/Col feels special. (see how inclusive I was )

 

[SupersonicMax]

Don’t forget needing a 4-6 ship for a flyby.

A 2-ship at most. I really like how US Navy Fighter Squadrons do it. An airborne lead change follow by a small ceremony after (sometimes in flight suit).

 

[PuckChaser]

As I mentioned above, I've never seen a whole unit parade for a change of appointment, if it happens it's just as silly as a change of command. Have a ceremony, broadcast it on Teams so the whole team can see... Just don't make people spend days marching up and down a square so that Col/CWO Bloggins feels special.

Ah... the classic, if you don't see things my way, maybe you should quit line. How has that been working for the CAF lately?

Ah the classic "lets do it on Teams" NCR mentality. You absolutely have no facts to support an assertion that change of command and appointment parades are making people quit the CAF.

Being in the military requires military things. Traditions also evolve, which is why we're seeing a lot more sit down events or small guards and quick parades. Calling for the complete cessation of any military drill and ceremony is asking to turn the CAF into the public service. We should get rid of uniforms too, that might be too demanding to mantain.

 

[Weinie]

You seriously propose conducting a CoC parade (signing and all) in the rain? What is it again, promote the welfare of your subordinates?

Sigh...............................

 

[SupersonicMax]

Sigh...............................

Please expand on your idea then.

 

[Furniture]

Ah the classic "lets do it on Teams" NCR mentality. You absolutely have no facts to support an assertion that change of command and appointment parades are making people quit the CAF.

Being in the military requires military things. Traditions also evolve, which is why we're seeing a lot more sit down events or small guards and quick parades. Calling for the complete cessation of any military drill and ceremony is asking to turn the CAF into the public service. We should get rid of uniforms too, that might be too demanding to mantain.

You're arguing against a strawman.

I never said we should abandon all parades and drill. Go back through my entire post history and you will not see me argue for that. Go ahead... I have time...

Done?

Good, now we can get to what I have actually argued for.

I have argued for a reduced ceremony for change of command and change of appointment. A few people, generally those close to the person being swapped should be present for a ceremony. Broadcast that smaller ceremony on Teams for the entire CAF to see if they wish.

We can/should still do the "big" events, Remembrance Day, Battle of the Atlantic, Battle of Britain, VE Day, VJ Day, Canadian Armed Forces Day... In fact I think we should do far more for each of those days, but I think change of command parades are anachronistic.

 

[Weinie]

Ah the classic "lets do it on Teams" NCR mentality. You absolutely have no facts to support an assertion that change of command and appointment parades are making people quit the CAF.

Being in the military requires military things. Traditions also evolve, which is why we're seeing a lot more sit down events or small guards and quick parades. Calling for the complete cessation of any military drill and ceremony is asking to turn the CAF into the public service. We should get rid of uniforms too, that might be too demanding to mantain.

This.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Ah the classic "lets do it on Teams" NCR mentality. You absolutely have no facts to support an assertion that change of command and appointment parades are making people quit the CAF.

It’s rarely one thing that push people out but an amalgamation of dis-satisfiers. That’s one of those dis-satisfiers, at least in the RCAF.

 

[OldSolduer]

So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

We don't - but as the RSM when I left I took the dais with the CO and received the eyes right.

I think this thread is going no where. Everyone's mind - including mine -is made up so maybe it needs to be locked.
CoC parades - at least in the Army probably aren't going anywhere and if you don't like that that's too damn bad.

Like I said don't presume to speak for everyone. We won't agree on everything all the time. AND if the RCN and RCAF want to do it their way who am I to argue?