Change of Command drill question / passing of the Colours and Swagger (Pace) stick

[Halifax Tar]

The goal is a recognition of a COs past term and a welcome of the incoming. It generally marks the end of the outgoing COs time in the regiment. It’s an opportunity for the outgoing to review his unit and passing it on in good shape to the next. Most if not all the CoCs I’ve been on involved one last chance for a CO to promote, recognize and award soldiers for various things. Generally the COs family is recognized as well. Followed by drinks and such in the messes.

Your view on CoCs being a giant ego stroking competition shows that you really don’t understand what they mean. And that’s fine. I won’t change your mind and could care less as none of your opinions will matter when we go through our next CofC. Ceremonies and ceremonial are all symbolic in nature. From remembrance day, to funerals to freedom of the city parades to quarter guards to sentries at the tomb etc etc. You choose to place more value on one over another based on your own set of values and opinions. That’s also fine. But it does not mean you are right about it being a waste of time or more specifically an ego stroking contest.

I can understand that in units and with soldiers that don’t live or work in a regimental system it may not matter to them.

In a regiment CofC parades are milestones that are are marked with tradition and symbolism.

You do you. I’ll do army.

How long do your CO tours last in the Regular CA ?

 

[dangerboy]

How long do your CO tours last in the Regular CA ?

They are on average about two years.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I honestly would love to hear what your options are that would be cost, time, and PY neutral comparatively to a 2 hour parade every 12-24 months...

A fly past after a regularly scheduled training mission on the day of the CoC.

 

[OldSolduer]

The goal is a recognition of a COs past term and a welcome of the incoming. It generally marks the end of the outgoing COs time in the regiment. It’s an opportunity for the outgoing to review his unit and passing it on in good shape to the next. Most if not all the CoCs I’ve been on involved one last chance for a CO to promote, recognize and award soldiers for various things. Generally the COs family is recognized as well. Followed by drinks and such in the messes.

Your view on CoCs being a giant ego stroking competition shows that you really don’t understand what they mean. And that’s fine. I won’t change your mind and could care less as none of your opinions will matter when we go through our next CofC. Ceremonies and ceremonial are all symbolic in nature. From remembrance day, to funerals to freedom of the city parades to quarter guards to sentries at the tomb etc etc. You choose to place more value on one over another based on your own set of values and opinions. That’s also fine. But it does not mean you are right about it being a waste of time or more specifically an ego stroking contest.

I can understand that in units and with soldiers that don’t live or work in a regimental system it may not matter to them.

In a regiment CofC parades are milestones that are are marked with tradition and symbolism.

You do you. I’ll do army.

Amen to this.

IF you don't like parades or think drill is irrelevant don't get posted to an infantry unit. Don't presume you know what's best for everyone.

Its what we do. I mean when I was in.....

We had a good number of "purple trade" soldiers who volunteered to do multiple tours with us. And yes they did drill with us no matter what DEU they were in.

 

[Furniture]

Maybe there is a difference here with the RCAF and RCN. All of my COs have called me by my first name; I’ve been on crew with most of them at some point. I’m not special or anything, and I call them Sir or ma’am but we tend to know each other a little better in the Air Force (and my first and last name is on my chest every day so…). Same as the DCOs and most Sqn Exec. Our units are smaller and such so maybe that has something to do with it.

The last Wing CoC is attended ( seated, not in a Flt) was my first LRP CO handing over command of the Wing to another former CO of mine who I deployed with. Maybe knowing the officers involved makes it less of a PITA event.

Not all COs and above will score the same in rank and file Popularity Contests…but that shouldn’t matter very much in assessing CoC functions value in the CAF.

If they are still doing it, the CTC Gagetown officer graduation parade is pretty impressive. It was about a week of practice and fairly long. Roll pasts, salutes for marching and mounted elements. It demonstrates a high level of discipline, command, team work and other things that are highly valuable in the military. Not everything about drill is valueless to the entire CAF.

I was Air Force for 21 years before switching to RCN. I had 1 CO call me by my first name, maybe it's different when you're air crew, but for many of us the air force isn't special, or even better than anywhere else.

I had a closer working relationship with every CO I sailed with than even the best air force CO I had.

Anyone remember that Afghanistan meme "Experiences May Vary", that's what the entire CAF is depending on trade, and postings.

To the point about parades, a CoC is entirely about the CO leaving, and the one coming in. It's a holdover from the days when officers were the "betters" of the "men".

Have a town hall broadcast on Teams, that way all pers see the new boss, and get to see the old boss off, but aren't forced to march up and down the square so the COs can feel special.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Given that the same could be said for literally any group task, I'm not really sure why this is being used as some sort of defence for drill and parades. You see, it's the legalized violence in service of the country that does that. Not the walking around in formation.

Drill and ceremonial isn't a "group task;" it's tradition, cohesion, and discipline on display.

It's that discipline and the display of it that is an outward, public showing that we aren't a rabble of yahoo's with guns exercising the "legalized violence" you speak of. Hell even this rabble is starting to realize the illusion of a professional military force is part of looking legitimate.

Take it for what you want, but this is a major part of what makes a military force, military. Drill, Dress, Discipline, and Deportment will always have a place in our profession of arms.

Fly pasts, piping the side, all have a place. So does bashing the square to put on a proper show.

 

[Remius]

If you believe that fly pasts are NOT more relevant than drill for Air Force folks, well, I don’t know what to say.

I think fly pasts would be relevant.

Why the airforce needed to get a tartan and pipe band though is odd.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Drill and ceremonial isn't a "group task;" it's tradition, cohesion, and discipline on display.

It's that discipline and the display of it that is an outward, public showing that we aren't a rabble of yahoo's with guns exercising the "legalized violence" you speak of. Hell even this rabble is starting to realize the illusion of a professional military force is part of looking legitimate.

Take it for what you want, but this is a major part of what makes a military force, military. Drill, Dress, Discipline, and Deportment will always have a place in our profession of arms.

Fly pasts, piping the side, all have a place. So does bashing the square to put on a proper show.View attachment 71402

Remember, because its always the way we've done things isn't good enough anymore.

You need to differentiate here. I haven't seen one person say drill and ceremonial have no place in the military, this has been specifically aimed at change of command parades.

If someone can point out a real necessity for them to exist that exists of more than because its tradition I will relent.

 

[FSTO]

Remember, because its always the way we've done things isn't good enough anymore.

You need to differentiate here. I haven't seen one person say drill and ceremonial have no place in the military, this has been specifically aimed at change of command parades.

If someone can point out a real necessity for them to exist that exists of more than because its tradition I will relent.

Recognize the outgoing CO, welcome the New CO. Good lord people it’s one day max.

 

[PuckChaser]

The "I have better work to do crowd" sure don't turn down the short day I've seen almost universally handed out after full change of command parades either...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

The "I have better work to do crowd" sure don't turn down the short day I've seen almost universally handed out after full change of command parades either...

Precisely this. If you have better work to do for a CoC parade, you better believe you'll have better work to do the next time you crow about wanting to go to TGIT, CISM Sports, or the other CAF activities that aren't listed in your Part 1 (or JDB thing on PaCE).

 

[Furniture]

Recognize the outgoing CO, welcome the New CO. Good lord people it’s one day max.

So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

If we are doing parades to recognize people, why not have a massive parade for all pers posted in and out? Let every S3/Pte/Avr-Adm/Gen have a speech and a some flowers?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

If we are doing parades to recognize people, why not have a massive parade for all pers posted in and out? Let every S3/Pte/Avr-Adm/Gen have a speech and a some flowers?

We have Change of Appointment ceremonies for RSM/SSMs within the Army. We also do Mug Outs at Troop or Sqn level for all pers who are posted/moving along so they can get recognition.

There are ways and means to do this are all levels, and it starts with the Pl/Tp/Flt/Div Chains of Command putting the effort in to do so. I honestly get the vibe from this thread that there is something very wrong with the morale and well-being of folks wearing Blue in both shades.

I pity you all if a CoC parade has everyone below the rank of PO1/WO sharpening the guillotine.

 

[PuckChaser]

So when do we start parades for outgoing RSMs, Coxns, CSMs, and other NCM jobs?

It's an archaic tradition tied directly to class...

If we are doing parades to recognize people, why not have a massive parade for all pers posted in and out? Let every S3/Pte/Avr-Adm/Gen have a speech and a some flowers?

So firstly, we do have parades for ongoing RSMs, it's called a change of appointment (or change of stick) parade. I sat through one today, it had a reviewing officer and took 30 mintues.

Secondly, only a single member of a unit has the delegated authority to command on behalf of the superior commander and assume risk (within that delegated authorities and risk matrix). Yes, I'm sure a ton of our traditions are rooted in 18th century British classism, however if you want to think a S3/Pte/Avr has the same significance when they're posted than the CO, you've missed the boat here and maybe are better suited to the public service.

 

[dimsum]

I was Air Force for 21 years before switching to RCN. I had 1 CO call me by my first name, maybe it's different when you're air crew, but for many of us the air force isn't special, or even better than anywhere else.

It is. A friend of mine also switched to the RCAF around the same time I did, but not to an aircrew trade. They were in the unit and realized that it wasn't as laid-back as the stereotypical aircrew attitude and one of their co-workers said "oh, like aircrew? Yeah, we're not like that."

Why the airforce needed to get a tartan and pipe band though is odd.

Is the Army and Navy seriously going to call the Air Force out on having random uniform quirks?

 

[SupersonicMax]

For those that say it’s “just two hours,” typically, a CoC would have the unit conduct normal flying on Monday, a half day on Tuesday followed by towing all aircraft out of the hangar (including removing specialized maintenance equipment that was being used to troubleshoot/fix the aircraft and cleaning the hangar until Wednesday PM, at which point the unit would practice for the CoC. Thursday AM would be setup finalization for the “2-hour” parade, which would occur on Thursday PM. Friday would be left for putting everything back to the way it was on Tuesday AM with Monday off as a short “for the hard work with the parade.” So, essentially a week away from generating aircraft and flying lines. Not a great use of ressources.

 

[Weinie]

It is. A friend of mine also switched to the RCAF around the same time I did, but not to an aircrew trade. They were in the unit and realized that it wasn't as laid-back as the stereotypical aircrew attitude and one of their co-workers said "oh, like aircrew? Yeah, we're not like that."



Is the Army and Navy seriously going to call the Air Force out on having random uniform quirks?

Well, those wedges..........................

 

[Weinie]

For those that say it’s “just two hours,” typically, a CoC would have the unit conduct normal flying on Monday, a half day on Tuesday followed by towing all aircraft out of the hangar (including removing specialized maintenance equipment that was being used to troubleshoot/fix the aircraft and cleaning the hangar until Wednesday PM, at which point the unit would practice for the CoC. Thursday AM would be setup finalization for the “2-hour” parade, which would occur on Thursday PM. Friday would be left for putting everything back to the way it was on Tuesday AM with Monday off as a short “for the hard work with the parade.” So, essentially a week away from generating aircraft and flying lines. Not a great use of ressources.

So just parade on the apron in the spring/summer/fall. No need to move A/C, open the hangar doors, a perfectly decent backdrop for your CoC.

 

[dimsum]

Well, those wedges..........................

You mean the Army field service caps?

 

[SupersonicMax]

So just parade on the apron in the spring/summer/fall. No need to move A/C, open the hangar doors, a perfectly decent backdrop for your CoC.

Except when it rains.