Cenotaph/Memorial Vandalism/Solutions-Laws (merged)

[GO!!!]

It would indeed!  But THAT, GO!!!, is exactly what the media who frequent this site will focus on.  If it had been just another street person.... well, who cares.

I realise that, but we stand to look even more foolish rallying the troops for a good 'ol witch huntin' and burnin' if it really turns out to be.

The sooner a name is attached to his face the better!

 

[Kat Stevens]

better yet, a tag attached to his toe.....I kid, I kid....maybe..... >

 

[Gunner]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/07/03/pf-1666201.html

PM says man urinating on National War Memorial on Canada Day ‘terrible’

OTTAWA (CP) - Prime Minister Stephen Harper expressed his disgust upon learning of a man urinating on the National War Memorial.

A veteran snapped a photo of a man relieving himself on the Ottawa monument on Canada Day.

Retired Major Michael Pilon says most people cheered and laughed when the photos were taken Saturday night.

In an interview with Ottawa radio station CFRA on Monday, Harper called it a "terrible thing to do."

The Royal Canadian Legion plans to use the photos to support its call for increased security at the monument.

Harper said he doesn't believe the incident is representative of how Canadians feel about the veterans.

"As you know often, people who get carried away do thoughtless things," Harper said. "Obviously, it's a terrible thing to do."

"Certainly my impression is it doesn't represent in any way the views of any segment of Canadian society," he said. "I think we all strongly honour our vets."

"I notice at all these ceremonies, the veterans always get the largest ovation of anybody, and I think that's how Canadians feel."

Ontario Tory MP Gord Brown and Conservative Lisa MacLeod, who sits in the Ontario legislature, have also voiced their disgust with the incident.

 

[GAP]

better yet, a tag attached to his toe.....I kid, I kid....maybe..... >

entertaining idea.... 8)

This would be a good time to bring back "stocks". Have it mounted so he faces the monument he defaced and low enough that anyone can give him a swift kick as they walk by.... >

 

[medicineman]

Or someone could do "The Mighty Ducks" thing to him - gun tape him in position somewhere then urinate all over him...

Just our luck of course, he might be into that sort of thing.

MM

 

[Hot Lips]

Or someone could do "The Mighty Ducks" thing to him - gun tape him in position somewhere then urinate all over him...

Just our luck of course, he might be into that sort of thing.

MM

LMAO...

MM...you do have a way with words  :rofl:

It really is unfortunate IMO that old fashion justice is a thing of the past...IMO I believe there would be less of these disgraceful things taking place if people knew someone would "speak" to you about it after the fact.

HL

 

[Kat Stevens]

These guys all need a behind the monument counselling session with my good friend Cpl Elgin.

 

[orange.paint]

The sad part is a loser like this will proably frame it to put on his wall.This is the type of youth out there today."a national disgrace" would be a title for these losers.

All in all the public will forget by next week after tomorrows discussion around the water cooler.And they will follow up in about 10 weeks with a small report under "Britney's new baby" or "Is prada that good."

I was one of the original posters saying we should have a ceremonial guard there,but the more I thought of it what could you really do legally? A group of civi idiots and you with your unloaded mag.They obviously don't care for those who died for our country how do we expect them to respect those who serve?

I believe this incident has fostered a sense of respect in a lot of the civilian population in Ottawa.After reading the comments on their webpage it showed plenty of people who just find this appalling,and demand respect to our fallen.My hat go off to them.

he inspired me to run a little further tonight.....man I hope I never meet that preppy assmunch.

As you know often, people who get carried away do thoughtless things," Harper said. "
I would replace thoughless with discusting,disrespectiful,EVIL, ..hence why Im not PM...or paffo.


maybe he will allow me to assemble a bunch of fit guys from the school to go to his trial.....(Ive been brewing over it all day can you tell!)

Nelly Furtato is on TV now so I will go lighten my mood and watch her dance.

 

[rick7475]

Put a camera up. They do it at bank machines and stop lights.

 

[rick7475]

The sad part is a loser like this will proably frame it to put on his wall.This is the type of youth out there today."a national disgrace" would be a title for these losers.

Actually the sad part is because it was published by the media it will now end up on numerous websites depicting pictures of drunken or rowdy behaviour for the enlightenment of fans of that sort of thing.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

At the risk of ruining a good rant, and taking this off on a tangent:

Unfortunately, you're in to Aid to the Civil Power-type stuff here.  Legally, we couldn't actually mount a "real" guard (one with powers of arrest, ROE, etc.) without jumping through all sorts of legal hoops and constitutional issues.  That's why it's the Ceremonial Guard.

We could mount a 24/7 "ceremonial" guard that just happened to have weapons and bayonets fixed...but I find that a bit American/Russian for my taste.

The Ottawa Police need to step up to the plate here, along with the RCMP; security is their responsibility and they need to be taking it seriously.

The Calgary Highlanders monument on old City Hall has been quietly rusting away for years. I recall that the RCAC monument in Worthington Park in Borden is also tarnished; seems that way across the country. I think the preservation of these memorials needs a serious rethink, in addition to just security.

 

[tomahawk6]

Mount a guard like we do at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Mount a guard like we do at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

We shouldn't have to.

 

[medicineman]

The key here words being "shouldn`t" and "have to".

MM

 

[brihard]

(by the way excellent drill on Canada day,you guys looked real sharp).

Thank you. It was a good couple of parades, and the afternoon off was well needed.

Now regarding the issue at hand-

This is making it's way around shacks at the moment here at Carleton, and universally the reaction is profound disgust. Had any of us been near the memorial as this was happening rest assured it would have stopped- I would have gladly caught a charge for taking whatever measures necessary to stop it if things came to that, and not all of us were drinking much that night- we certainly would have been in good enough condition to do so.

Neither Ceremonial Guard nor the local units (GGFG & CH of O at Cartier, plus assorted reserve units across town) are in any shape to provide manpower for a full time guard You're looking at at least a section fo troops just for rotating sentry, plus svc/sppt. Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly take shifts, and would do that over Rideau Hall if it came to that, but the money and the troops aren't there.

Let's look at it this way- assume a section,. plus leadership, plus support personnel, and you're looking at maybe a dozen people on daily. Add to that costs for food, transport, etc. etc. ad nauseum, and you're looking at over a half million a year. That's not to say that that isn't worth it; there was a great point earlier about the snowbirds and skyhawks, but it's still an expense to shoulder, plus a burden on local personnel. The same applies to having a permanent police presence.

I suspect that what we will see is an unofficial guard of the tomb a year from now- if I'm in Ottawa I'd gladly hang out there for a few hours on Canada Day evening to watch over it, and some of my buddies would too- some of them are GGFG during the year and will no doubt be back here next summer, so people will be available for a quiet, 'unofficial' sentry. A couple fit young guys (or ladies) in 'ARMY' shirts should suffice, and even in most cases a quiet polite word should do the trick. If anything were to get stupid the police would likely side with the bystanders who received trouble after insisting that people respect the monument by not pissing on it.

Now that that's all dispensed with, if I ever catch this goddamned stain on our country I'll probably pound the piss out of him. I don't consider this to be a commentary on society as a whole, but the fact that no-one stepped up to stop them sickens me. I'm friggin' LIVID about this- 'disgrace' is not a strong enough word for it. Fortunately, the little shit photographs well enough that hopefully the name will be available online within another week or so.

We won't likely see anything official on this - though perhaps a Canada-Day only cenotaph guard may happen - but I'm sure I'm not the only pissed off troop here in Ottawa who would be willing to step up to the plate next year.

 

[tomahawk6]

A lone sentry 24/7 rotated every 30 minutes should be doable.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Or we can stop giving this horrible little man the attention he was craving when he did it...It's been there since 1939 and this is a hopefully rare event. Urine dries quickly.

I do think the current laws on vandalism - especially stuff like grave desecration - don't go far enough. Perhaps with a majority next time around the government can do something about that.  In Calgary, we just had some dumbass spraypaint over a 100 year old billboard painted on the side of a historic building - there was much disgust here over that as well.

In the meantime, I'm a bit disappointed in the press for indulging this fellow's need for attention - unless of course it leads to his identification. I'd honestly not be sorry to hear he had been found floating in the Rideau Canal, but suggesting a 24 hour guard isn't really sensible thinking. Nor is cutting off access to the monument. I was really humbled on my two trips to Ottawa to be able to stand and touch the Unknown Soldier's sarcophogus and walk up to the monument. There is far more benefit in letting thousands or millions of people do that, than living in fear some kid might pee on it.  To be blunt, the pigeons crap on it every day. But the idea of a security camera is also a good one.

I do hope whomever knows him outs him to that same press and restores what little faith in them I can muster these days.

 

[tomahawk6]

The changing of the guard would be a memorable tourist destination.

 

[brihard]

Or we can stop giving this horrible little man the attention he was craving when he did it...It's been there since 1939 and this is a hopefully rare event. Urine dries quickly.

I do think the current laws on vandalism - especially stuff like grave desecration - don't go far enough. Perhaps with a majority next time around the government can do something about that.  In Calgary, we just had some dumbass spraypaint over a 100 year old billboard painted on the side of a historic building - there was much disgust here over that as well.

In the meantime, I'm a bit disappointed in the press for indulging this fellow's need for attention - unless of course it leads to his identification. I'd honestly not be sorry to hear he had been found floating in the Rideau Canal, but suggesting a 24 hour guard isn't really sensible thinking. Nor is cutting off access to the monument. I was really humbled on my two trips to Ottawa to be able to stand and touch the Unknown Soldier's sarcophogus and walk up to the monument. There is far more benefit in letting thousands or millions of people do that, than living in fear some kid might pee on it.  To be blunt, the pigeons crap on it every day. But the idea of a security camera is also a good one.

I do hope whomever knows him outs him to that same press and restores what little faith in them I can muster these days.

Oh, don't get me wrong- I'm fully for public access to the memorial. Pretty much any time I'm heading up Elgin I'll stop at the tomb for a minute,a nd it wasn't unusual on Canada day to see people take a knee and put their hand on the corner fo the tomb that was just within reach beyond the rope fence. The flags were very moving as well. I wouldn't have it any other way; the vast majority, the respectful public, should have access to the tomb. But on special days like Canada Day there should be someone looking after it, too.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Tomahawk - I just don't think it's our way.  We tamed the west with red serge and treaties instead of six shooters.  The Royal Newfoundland Constabulary were the last police in North America not to carry sidearms. Canada has never been as authoritarian as other nations. I just don't think Canadian sensibiltiies would like the idea of armed soldiers there no matter how noble the cause. I'm not so sure they are wrong. As Brihard said very well, it's a great thing to be able to just walk up and pay one's respects without being under the eye of an armed guard.

And really, you could do the job with two of those guys from the Walmart parking lot for the cost of minimum wage and a couple of high-visibility vests. It wouldn't lessen the import of the monument or tomb - that importance is what people make of it for themselves, in the end. I'm not convinced it is necessary. We had our Regimental Monument in front of our armoury defaced a couple of years ago by a spraycan vandal. It was a one time thing. Might probably happen again, but had we mounted guard for the last two years, it would have been a lot of money we could have been putting to better use.