CDN/US Covid-related political discussion

[Journeyman]

And on that one- while I didn't get my hackles up over it, direct personal involvement in collection/dissemination are not the only ways someone can develop a fair bit of familiarity around the handling and use of security intelligence products.

I've never doubted it for a second.

...and I'd never question you about.... hackles  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

Firearm related but also Covid-19 related and touching on panic buying and behavior in Canada so placing it under the politics section.

COVID-19: Gun sales increase, crime doesn’t
https://www.rcinet.ca/en/2020/04/13/covid-gun-sales-increase-canada-crime-doesnt141030/

 

[Remius]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/us/bishop-gerald-glenn-coronavirus.html

Given how many churches, corner store chapels and whatnot that flouted the rules or guidelines for their right to religious freedom over Easter weekend I foresee a jump in cases in about two weeks in certain Bible Belt areas in the US.

 

[mariomike]

I would be interested in Brihard's opinion on police response during a pandemic. No, I won't "Brihard" you. 

eg: Photos indicate a virtually deserted Times Square. But, what looks to me, like a pretty heavy NYPD presence.

Prepared for a 1977 repeat of looting, vandalism, arson and general mayhem?  550 police officers injured. 4,500 looters arrested.


During SARS, Metro Police activated their Command Centre. The PCC operated 24/7 during the emergency which lasted from 23 Feb. 2003 to 12 June 2003.

TPS was praised for its performance during the outbreak. Lessons were learned for future - such as now - improvements in the areas of training and legislation.


SARS in Toronto had a fatality ratio of 17 per cent. So, most took it pretty seriously.

From what I read in the papers at the time, the crime rate was generally down.

 

[tomahawk6]

The Governor of Michigan may be recalled the State is incensed with her executive orders like closing grocery stores and no seeds. How do people eat if they cant grow their own food. It takes 200000 signatures for a recall and they were within 70000 .

 

[Remius]

The Governor of Michigan may be recalled the State is incensed with her executive orders like closing grocery stores and no seeds. How do people eat if they cant grow their own food. It takes 200000 signatures for a recall and they were within 70000 .

Is there a source about her closing grocery stores? Seems extreme.

I found the FAQ.

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98178_98455-525278--,00.html


This is an article on how the right is fabricating some rumours.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/for-some-on-the-right-no-rumor-is-too-outlandish-about-michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer


https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/tv-news-report-prompts-unfounded-attacks-on-michigan-governor/

And this just seem so to be new guidelines on how many people can be in a store depending on square footage

https://upnorthlive.com/news/local/stores-work-to-meet-governors-new-guidelines

Can he actually be recalled based on rumours and fake stories?

 

[mariomike]

The Governor of Michigan may be recalled the State is incensed with her executive orders like closing grocery stores and no seeds.

Can he actually be recalled based on rumours and fake stories?

She, actually.

As in,

"The woman in Michigan."

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00yEeVdywcpN9I_0qrXDZOeDROXjg%3A1586881337907&ei=OeOVXqv_Npa7tAba_oCgDQ&q=trump+that+%22woman+in+Michigan%22&oq=trump+that+%22woman+in+Michigan%22&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDEoKCBcSBjEyLTIxNkoICBgSBDEyLTRQ55EBWPusAWCZ1QFoAHAAeACAAfsDiAHNBpIBBzAuMy41LTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjr_8jTqejoAhWWHc0KHVo_ANQQ4dUDCAs#spf=1586881367026

 

[brihard]

I would be interested in Brihard's opinion on police response during a pandemic. No, I won't "Brihard" you. 

eg: Photos indicate a virtually deserted Times Square. But, what looks to me, like a pretty heavy NYPD presence.

Prepared for a 1977 repeat of looting, vandalism, arson and general mayhem?  550 police officers injured. 4,500 looters arrested.


During SARS, Metro Police activated their Command Centre. The PCC operated 24/7 during the emergency which lasted from 23 Feb. 2003 to 12 June 2003.

TPS was praised for its performance during the outbreak. Lessons were learned for future - such as now - improvements in the areas of training and legislation.


SARS in Toronto had a fatality ratio of 17 per cent. So, most took it pretty seriously.

From what I read in the papers at the time, the crime rate was generally down.

Frankly I don't really have much insight to offer. I get forwarded some interesting really high level 'dear everyone' emaisl, and I get front line rumours, but the real interesting stuff is done somewhere in the middle and I don't have much visiblity on that.

What  I am seeing is a lot of places are adjusting shifts to minimize bodies actually physically working to what's necessary, with more on call at home. A lot of calls aren't getting attended, to be followed up with by phone if there aren't immediate dangers. The underlying rationale has been force preservation in case things suck a lot more and get bad.

There have been no public order issues that I've seen yet, we'll see if that holds up as people get more squirrely. RCMP are starting to get lists of names to check for quarantine; no fines have resulted yet. This is in support of PHAC. There's been some police support of provincial emergency orders.

Domestics are up, things like B&Es are anecdotally, general craziness is up, truly idiotic testosterone-poisoned driving is up, lots of other stuff is down.People with addictions are really struggling to get their fix, leading to potentially more property crime- or perhaps more people are home to be aware of it happening.

The whole posture seems to basicalyl be to be ready for a worst case that may or may not eventualize, but that if it does could unravel pretty fast.

So far, people are generally being really good about it all, and police services are doing a pretty fair job of staying safe and healthy. I'm not in a position to say what it would look like if we start seeing public order issues... If we do I'll be in the thick of it, and I don't look forward to that possbility. Other possibilities that are anticipated is stuff like prison riots. I'm not in a position to speak to the likelihood of that, but police would potentially be called to support if those got bad.

So yeah, a ton of wait and see right now.

 

[mariomike]

Frankly I don't really have much insight to offer. I get forwarded some interesting really high level 'dear everyone' emaisl, and I get front line rumours, but the real interesting stuff is done somewhere in the middle and I don't have much visiblity on that.

What  I am seeing is a lot of places are adjusting shifts to minimize bodies actually physically working to what's necessary, with more on call at home. A lot of calls aren't getting attended, to be followed up with by phone if there aren't immediate dangers. The underlying rationale has been force preservation in case things suck a lot more and get bad.

There have been no public order issues that I've seen yet, we'll see if that holds up as people get more squirrely. RCMP are starting to get lists of names to check for quarantine; no fines have resulted yet. This is in support of PHAC. There's been some police support of provincial emergency orders.

Domestics are up, things like B&Es are anecdotally, general craziness is up, truly idiotic testosterone-poisoned driving is up, lots of other stuff is down.People with addictions are really struggling to get their fix, leading to potentially more property crime- or perhaps more people are home to be aware of it happening.

The whole posture seems to basicalyl be to be ready for a worst case that may or may not eventualize, but that if it does could unravel pretty fast.

So far, people are generally being really good about it all, and police services are doing a pretty fair job of staying safe and healthy. I'm not in a position to say what it would look like if we start seeing public order issues... If we do I'll be in the thick of it, and I don't look forward to that possbility. Other possibilities that are anticipated is stuff like prison riots. I'm not in a position to speak to the likelihood of that, but police would potentially be called to support if those got bad.

So yeah, a ton of wait and see right now.

Thank-you for your perspective, Brihard. I don't think any police force has all the answers, as the last pandemic was 100 years ago, and during wartime.

I have seen this,

NYPD letting officers with underlying conditions work from home

https://nypost.com/2020/03/28/nypd-letting-officers-with-underlying-conditions-work-from-home/

 

[MilEME09]

finally we are seeing major networks pick up a bit more steam on this issue. Hopefully this leads to a push for our own leaders to hold china to account. Long term I hope we learn we have relied to much on china for the global supply chain.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/china-coronavirus-open-letter/?utm_medium=Facebook&utm_source=GlobalCalgary&fbclid=IwAR0x-f_rd2diKiNt-vT1iLoVQyxbzG0n3E-39MHt0Vc-YfsL_Jdwce5z9BI

 

[FJAG]

The Governor of Michigan may be recalled the State is incensed with her executive orders like closing grocery stores and no seeds. How do people eat if they cant grow their own food. It takes 200000 signatures for a recall and they were within 70000 .

Michigan has 10 million people; Canada has 37.5 million. Michigan has 27,000 Covid cases with 1,768 dead. Canada has 26,500 cases with 832 deaths. With those numbers, Michigan's infection rate is 3.5 times that of Canada and their death rate 7 times Canada's. Michigan has the fourth worst infection rate in the States.

The governor there is fighting a major crisis and is being heavily opposed by critics who feel put out by the inconvenience to their personal freedoms and business activities. The one thing about Americans is that there is always one faction or another who wants to complain that their "rights" are being trampled on every time the government tries to do something for the common good. Whether its pastors in the deep south who insist that their churches don't have to comply with social distancing or whether its four residents in Michigan who just filed a federal lawsuit:

The suit seeks a temporary restraining order and permanent injunction on the executive order and an acknowledgement by the judge that the order violates constitutional rights. The suit also seeks money, including attorney fees and costs and compensatory and punitive damages.

“Under threat of fines and criminal penalties the individual plaintiffs are prohibited from traveling freely within the state of Michigan, visiting family and friends, attending to or utilizing their privately owned property, and visiting their significant others,” the lawsuit said.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2020/04/14/lawsuit-alleges-whitmer-order-taking-no-compensation/2990561001/

Sometimes, news isn't news but just the reporting of bellyaching by some folks who refuse to see the bigger picture.

:stirpot:

 

[MarkOttawa]

A lot of serious people, including a former Liberal justice minister, going after PRC/COVID-19 (and WHO)--further links at original:

Coronavirus coverup is ‘China’s Chernobyl moment,’ warn 100 politicians, experts

Trying to cover up the coronavirus pandemic marks China‘s “Chernobyl moment,” according to a new open letter.

More than 100 international politicians and international policy experts have signed on to the letter, including former Canadian justice minister and human rights advocate Irwin Cotler.

In it, the signatories warn that the coronavirus crisis shows it is more important than ever to raise up and listen to independent voices in China given the regime’s silencing of experts who tried to raise alarm bells.

“China’s Chernobyl moment is a self-inflicted wound,” the letter states.
“The CCP [Communist Party of China] silenced Chinese doctors who wanted to warn other health professionals during the early stage of the outbreak.”

It goes on to criticize the World Health Organization for bowing to Chinese pressure to downplay the severity of the situation.

That’s a criticism that the organization has been facing now for months.

There have been repeated intelligence leaks in recent weeks casting doubt on the official case numbers of the novel coronavirus reported by China to the World Health Organization.

Bloomberg first reported on April 1 that the American intelligence community concluded in a classified report for the Trump administration that China’s reporting on coronavirus cases and deaths was faked.

That report cited three U.S. intelligence officials calling the data from China “intentionally incomplete.”

The following day, the New York Times reported that the CIA had been warning the American administration since early February that China’s coronavirus tallies could not be trusted.

The intelligence officials cited in that report said a likely cause was that health officials in Wuhan, China had been hiding the real numbers out of fear of losing their jobs.

In the open letter, the experts say that in that coverup lies “the roots of the pandemic.”

They urge people around the world to confront “an inconvenient truth” about China.

“By politicizing all aspects of life including people’s health, continued autocratic one-party rule in the People’s Republic of China has endangered everyone,” they write, suggesting that the intentions of the Communist Party of China can no longer be trusted.

“We should pay greater attention to the voices of what can be termed ‘unofficial’ China. These independent-minded academics, doctors, entrepreneurs, citizen journalists, public interest lawyers and young students no longer accept the CCP’s rule by fear. Neither should you.”

Other signatories to the letter include U.K. MP Damian Collins, who chaired the international grand committee examining privacy and social media misinformation last year, along with members of Parliament from Lithuania, Estonia, the Czech Republic, the European Parliament and the U.K.

There are also several former ministers of foreign affairs, defence and home affairs, along with a broad range of civil society advocates and academics, including Canadian writer Jonathan Manthorpe.

No Canadian members of Parliament from any party signed the letter [emphasis added].

Canadian Health Minister Patty Hajdu earlier this month attacked a journalist who asked about whether China’s data can be trusted, criticizing them as “feeding conspiracy theories.”
https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/china-coronavirus-open-letter/

Is she just Patty in the Chicoms' hands?

Mark
Ottawa

 

[mariomike]

Michigan has the fourth worst infection rate in the States.

New York is offering nurses up to $7K a week. Michigan is offering way less.

https://www.michiganradio.org/post/new-york-offering-nurses-7k-week-michigan-offering-way-less

"At Sinai-Grace ( Detroit ), she was making $850 a week after taxes, she says."

I've read of NYC recruiters promising as much as $13,000 a week for nurse practitioners and $10,000 a week for nurses in return for working 12-hour daily shifts during 21-day deployments.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Between the position of the governor of Michigan, and spring break in Florida, there is a lot of room for reasonable positions.  Some of what the governor is doing is ridiculous, and merits no apologism.

 

[mariomike]

Volunteer firefighter received his first federal stimulus payment from the federal government on Friday. However, it wasn’t what he was expecting. His account had $8.2 million dollars in it.

https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/indiana-man-waiting-for-1700-stimulus-payment-sees-millions-in-his-bank-account/

 

[brihard]

Thank-you for your perspective, Brihard. I don't think any police force has all the answers, as the last pandemic was 100 years ago, and during wartime.

I have seen this,

Yup, a lot of cops in plainclothes sections are working from home, myself included- in reality of course the amount of work we can do in this fashion is quite a limited; a lot of stuff just isn't advancing. Again it's a force preservation measure so they have us available to throw uniforms on us if need be. And yes, others who have immune compromised family, personal health conditions, etc are being accommodated for that too. Stay healthy, stay safe, stay ready to go.

Between the position of the governor of Michigan, and spring break in Florida, there is a lot of room for reasonable positions.  Some of what the governor is doing is ridiculous, and merits no apologism.

Out of curiosity, which emergency restrictions, specifically, do you consider ridiculous?

 

[Remius]

Out of curiosity, which emergency restrictions, specifically, do you consider ridiculous?

I’m curious as well.  After reading the state’s FAQ, it doesn’t look much different than what we are doing here. And most of it is voluntary here.

 

[stellarpanther]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-restrictions-lockdown-1.5531482

Andrew Scheer is demanding a return of parliament, one his reasons is to hold the government accountable. Really?  These people have no shame, him Kenny and others like them are still playing from Harpers playbook.  Hell, Harper is probably still calling the shots. Do they not remember that one of the things that came out after the last election was that a lot of voters didn't like Scheer always attacking and being negative?  He clearly hasn't learned nor does he care. We don't need Parliament to be recalled and now isn't the time for the Cons to start with their BS.  I said not that long ago that if O'toole was the leader, I would seriously consider voting for them.  Seeing how they are acting now, I wouldn't vote for them if they were the only ones on the ballot.  The Liberals may not be doing everything perfect but they are doing a good job and now isn't the time for political crap!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I agree....listening to Mr. Scheer complain the day the carbon tax went up just made me want to punch my TV and scream that he was going to cost all of us 4 more years of Mr. Trudeau.

 

[mariomike]

now isn't the time for political crap!

The +300 was for those last seven words.

Plenty of time for party politics after Canada gets through this pandemic.