Capt. Robert Semrau Charged With Murder in Afghanistan

[The Bread Guy]

pbi - well summed up.

When I hear people suggesting we should pick and choose which laws we follow, maybe I'm naive, but this exchange from "A Man for All Seasons" comes to mind:

William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

pbi - well summed up.

When I hear people suggesting we should pick and choose which laws we follow, maybe I'm naive, but this exchange from "A Man for All Seasons comes to mind:

At the time you quote, execution was the likely outcome of theft.  Today you blame it on toilet training and get probation, if.

 

[Haggis]

I don't see a serious problem with the time honoured Canadian tradition of discouraging such activity while overlooking it when it happens.  I have heard a post-Korea, pre-Afghanistan story along similar lines.

Of Canadian origin?  Really?  Please, do tell!

Are are now imposing on our soldiers the obligation to risk their lives to save a wounded enemy?  It appears so.

  We are obligated by law and convention to tend to wounded and injured enemy as we do to our own. Nothing new there.  However, no commander in his right mind would risk a Canadian life to save a wounded enemy.

 

[The Bread Guy]

At the time you quote, execution was the likely outcome of theft.  Today you blame it on toilet training and get probation, if.

Arguing sentencing practices is kinda different from arguing whether laws should be enforced or followed.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

Of Canadian origin?  Really?  Please, do tell!

Yes. Really. No. 

In all liklihood it was before you were born but there is no statute of limitations on such things and you must simply disbelieve me.  Cyprus!  Simply a second hand rumour that in afterthought I shouldn't have mentioned and I apologize to everyone.

 

[Haggis]

Yes. Really. No. 

In all liklihood it was before you were born but there is no statute of limitations on such things and you must simply disbelieve me.  Cyprus!  Simply a second hand rumour that in afterthought I shouldn't have mentioned and I apologize to everyone.

Check my profile.  I've been on this rock - and in uniform - a long time.  Therefore I choose to disbelieve you.  Half-baked innuendo and rumour mongering aren't erased by your apology.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

  Half-baked innuendo and rumour mongering aren't erased by your apology.

You were 13 at the time.  My apology wasn't an admission concerning facts.    My apology was employing weasel words in an effort to deflect the topic.

 

[Haggis]

My apology wasn't an admission concerning facts.

Your "second hand rumour" hardly qualifies as a fact.  If you want to beat this up some more, we can go to PM's.  No need to derail this further with unsubstantiated heresay from 1973.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

What would happen if the captain resigned from the CF before the sentence was handed down?  Or is that even possible at this point? 

 

[ArmyRick]

Z-cop, No he can not resign to get out of offences committed while serving.

Denis Ruhl,

Second hand info on a supposed cyprus killing? Sure buds. I see your a former 2LT, a really expirienced former soldier huh? I suppose you got lots to back up this rumour/second hand info?

Sorry pal, I don't buy it at all.

 

[SeanNewman]

Z-cop, No he can not resign to get out of offences committed while serving.

Not exactly precedent but it worked for most involved with My Lai, and they murdered hundreds of un-wounded people.

 

[KevinB]

Interesting comment about My Lai 4, however 2Lt William Calley had been ordered (illegal order, but ordered none the less), to 'procesute the village' by his Company Commander (Capt Medina).
  He got convicted - and got three years house arrest.

However I think Capt Semrau is of much higher character than Calley, and the My Lai issue is not germane to this issue.


 

 

[SeanNewman]

*Edit*

 

[OldSolduer]

My Lai is irrelevant for a few reasons, most of which you have covered.

 

[Haggis]

Even if Capt Semrau had been released prior to charges being laid, he would have then been tried as "ex-Capt Semrau" as the offences were alleged to have occurred while he was subject to the NDA.

 

[Gunner98]

No, My Lai is not a parallel to the Semrau trial, but it is very significant for the question asked about whether or not he could dodge the charges by releasing.

A whole whack of people were untouchable because they had done their year and got out before the investigation was ready to lay any charges.

We actually cover that day quite a bit in the Inf Sch Ethics package.  Lots of good discussion.

And of course, the events of 08 are hardly the same as "doing a village" of almost 500 (lots of info on the My Lai wiki page).

Does the Inf Sch staff often cite wikipages in the same breath as their course packages?  Thankfully Canadians cannot dodge things (or become untouchables) in the same manner as Americans whether that it is military tribunals or drafts.

 

[SeanNewman]

ST,

As per any topic, Wiki is to be taken with a grain of salt.  Typically it is not the page itself where the "truth" will be found, but the links at the bottom where the sources are to provide the full context.

JS,

It's not My Lai that is being quoted for the actions so much as the fact that in that case soldiers who released were never tried for their actions while in uniform, which differs from this case as mentioned because it would just be ex-Capt Semrau on trial.

 

[Scott]

Right, we've about covered the My Lai thing and wiki.

Back on track please

Staff

 

[Danjanou]

Ok A couple of quick mod points and ground rules to reiterate Scott's post above:

1- At present there are 46,600+ views or hits on this thread
2- A Google search on this topic puts the army.ca thread at number 2 right after a TorStar article
3- We all know this place attracts a lot of high profile lurkers including many of the MSM. Especially on topics such as this.

Good arguments and debate on the topic at hand are encouraged, however let's think before we hit post. The My Lai reference has been explained by the one who posted it as a limited reference to a specific incident that happened 40 odd years ago and in relation to who some individuals escaped possible legal action because their enlistments ran out, and as noted has no bearing or relevance to this specific case.

Some elements lurking out there may, and I stress may take this out of context to further their own means. The last thing we all need is to see a headline somewhere saying "CF members compare Afghanistan to Vietnam War Atrocities on their own Forum." Not saying that can or would ever happen, but let's not even allow the possibility.

Thank you

milnet.ca Staff

 

[winnipegoo7]

This was in todays Chronicle Herald in Halifax.  I was wondering if members were allowed to make comments like this to the press?

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Letters/1195607.html

"Captain a disgrace
I was shocked when I read Pat Blais’s Aug. 2 letter on Capt. Robert Semrau.

Disgrace? Yes, this whole incident is a disgrace, to the Canadian military and to all of us who serve our country. Capt. Semrau is a disgrace to Canada and to the uniform we wear.

The insurgent was badly injured and from reading all the news information, they were fatal wounds; he would have died if not within minutes, then hours. There was no need for Capt. Semrau to take matters into his own hands. This was not compassion to a "human being," as the letter writer put it. No one has the right to act as God.

We had a dear friend pass away recently during this war, and I can tell you the impact of this war will be long-lasting, well after all our troops are home safe and sound.

As far as Capt. Semrau goes, he is a disgrace and he should be penalized to the absolute maximum. No one, including a military captain, is God!

I am very proud of my fellow soldiers, naval personnel and airmen/women serving this country, and wish them a safe return home.

Cpl. Charla Dorrington, Dartmouth"

[My emphasis on the rank]