Canadians Losing Freedom of Speech?

[Sh0rtbUs]

Thats exactly the point. It is MY choice which faith I choose to follow, and if my religion openly condemns homosexuality and deems it a sin, then its MY right to believe it if I want, and support it if I want. Its not "the bible-thumper route" nor is it "brainwashing". Its my faith, and thats what this bill is beginning to come down to. Which is more important, the right to practice ones own faith, or the right to equality? It also comes down to a thin line, is the church calling them f@ggots, or sinners? Im yet to hear ANY leader of ANY church call them anything but sinners. Flame your own beliefs, not mine.

 

[K. Ash]

Did you guys hear about what Arnold Schwarzenneger (sp?) said when asked his opinion on gay marriages? Something like this: "What goes on in a man and woman‘s bedroom is none of my buisness"

Poor bugger, he must have been flabberhgasted or something...

 

[McG]

Originally posted by Sh0rtbUs:
[qb] Its my faith, and thats what this bill is beginning to come down to. Which is more important, the right to practice ones own faith, or the right to equality? [/qb]

Why can it not be both? Your faith does not require you to hate those who are homosexual, it just requires that you abstain from such activity. Just as other faiths require members to abstain from certain foods.

 

[Rick_Donald]

In the process of screening one of my daughter‘s favourite website I was surprised to find the number of kids who listed on their profiles that their sexual preference is bisexual. They don‘t even know what they are yet. Now, chances are they are only blowing their horns cause at the same time they all like to brag about how dysfunctional their family is to the point that it is almost a competition.
But my point is when did bisexualism and dysfunctionallism become fashionable and why?
With the lack of guidance and discipline that these kids face today do they really need a mixed messages from their authority figures.
I am not promoting hatred of gays. I‘ve known plenty and never treated them any different. But I am an adult and never had a counsellor, teacher or other adult preaching to me that homosexuality is acceptable. I made the choice to treat them as equals based on the way I was raised to treat all people.My folks were even a little predjudiced to other races and they‘re folks even more so but we are evolving and it is not because of legislation that we are.As we work, play and drink with each other we learn tolerance and the walls of hatred,fear and discrimination fall away.I even watch the odd episode of Will and Grace from time to time.
But when I see the behavior of the gay community at their parades in public places I often ask myself would heterosexuals carry on in this manner? Bills like this only encourage more of this behavior and send the wrong message out to teens.
we don‘t need to be tying up the government with ridiculious matters as this with all the other pressing issues such as healthcare, defense and education.
That‘s just my opinion.

 

[girlfiredup]

Interesting read...what the bible says about homosexuality:

http://www.bible.com/answers/ahomosex.html

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

The Bible is irrelevant. How would those of you who make religious arguments against homosexuality feel if a Taliban style government were to come to power in Canada and proclaim Shari`ah? We shouldn‘t make law based on the moralistic preaching of any particular group.

I‘m not a homosexual. I‘m also not a Christian, nor do I belong to any other religious denomination. Why should I care if two homosexuals want to get married any more than I care whether or not Christians want to go to church? Neither affects me, so neither is any of my business.

 

[atticus]

Originally posted by willy:
[qb] The Bible is irrelevant. How would those of you who make religious arguments against homosexuality feel if a Taliban style government were to come to power in Canada and proclaim Shari`ah? We shouldn‘t make law based on the moralistic preaching of any particular group. [/qb]

Why is it up to you to say that the bible is irrelevant? I don‘t recall Christians reading it and then going and blowing themselves up or saying that you cannot follow another faith or even have no faith at all? And we shouldn‘t make law based on the moralistic preaching of any particular group? Then why would we make a law based on the preaching of homosexuals?

 

[stukirkpatrick]

*Cough*...crusades...*cough*

also, as with any other large religion, there are sects in Christianity which resort to extreme acts to promote their views.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

1. The bible is irrelevant because it has no bearing on this situation at all. So what if it says that homosexuality is wrong? We, in Canada, don‘t base our laws on the bible and what it says. My point about the Taliban style government was meant to make you think about how you would feel in a situation where a government started making all manner of proclaimations based on religious criteria that you didn‘t agree with. Obviously, you missed that.

2. We wouldn‘t be making law based on their moralistic preaching. We‘d be making it based on the fact that the moralistic preaching of OTHERS is no reason to deny them the right to marry.

The marriage of two homosexuals would have no effect on your life. None. On the other hand, what you are asking for is to be able to have an effect on theirs. That is unreasonable.

 

[48Highlander]

Atticus: "Biblethumpers" doesn‘t include all "christians, jews, etc". Just the militant ones, and the ones who decide to base all their opinions on what the bible has to say. Most Christans understand that the bible isn‘t the direct word of God, and form their own opinions and morals based on their interpretation of the bible and their own life experiences. Others (the bible thumpers) decide to march around yelling "God hates fags". I have nothing against any religion, but I do dislike people who use the bible as an explanation for the majority of their beleifs.

Burce: You don‘t want to beleive me, that‘s your prerogative.

Shortbus: Nobody‘s flaming your beleifs. Should a church here be allowed to preach that all Americans are infidels though? You want to beleive that homosexuality is wrong, you‘re entitled to do that, just like you‘re allowed to beleive that blacks are a lower form of life, and that the Aryan people will one day rule the world. Just don‘t make public statements about it, or you‘ll end up in jail.

Rick: You‘ll notice that only female teens put down that they‘re bisexual. That trend is easy to understand. Most men love the idea of having two or more females at once. Therefore, females who claim to be bisexual are immediately more appealing. So in addition to putting on makeup and screwing around with their hair for hours in order to impress guys, todays female teen also claims to be bisexual. A lot of them are, or will eventually be, and some aren‘t.

And Atticus for the second time: The Oklahoma bomber was a christian if I remember correctly. There have also been multiple killings of abortion-doctors by Christians. The only difference between Muslim fanatics and Christian fanatics is that the Christian variety doesn‘t want to die while killing others. And nobody‘s yet made a law based on the preaching of homosexuals. If you think I‘m wrong, please point out one.

 

[muskrat89]

We are never going to solve the gay marriage issue here, nor are you going to convince the "other side" to adopt your point of view. If we could focus the discussion on the hate speech law (see beginning of thread) that would be dandy.....

 

[loyalcana]

Originally posted by S_Baker:
[qb] it all has to do with activist judges and politicians who think they know better than its citizens.....go figure.

By the way, why were "same sex" marriages not legal in the 17, 18, 19, 0r 20th century in Canada? Descrimination my ***, its stupid! [/qb]

So what some laws go out of date anybody want the law that requires automobile drivers when approaching a horse-drawn carriage to drive to the side of the road, dismantle the automobile and cover with canvass sheet to avoid scaring the horses. Or perhaps you want "a seperate but equal school system". As long as society changes the laws have to change with it.

 

[atticus]

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] Atticus: "Biblethumpers" doesn‘t include all "christians, jews, etc". Just the militant ones, and the ones who decide to base all their opinions on what the bible has to say. Most Christans understand that the bible isn‘t the direct word of God, and form their own opinions and morals based on their interpretation of the bible and their own life experiences. Others (the bible thumpers) decide to march around yelling "God hates fags". I have nothing against any religion, but I do dislike people who use the bible as an explanation for the majority of their beleifs. [/qb]

Where I grew up biblethumper is a term used to put Christians down that simply just believe in the bible. Including the people that try to push their faith on others and the ones that keep to themselves.

Originally posted by 48Highlander:
[qb] And Atticus for the second time: The Oklahoma bomber was a christian if I remember correctly. There have also been multiple killings of abortion-doctors by Christians. The only difference between Muslim fanatics and Christian fanatics is that the Christian variety doesn‘t want to die while killing others. And nobody‘s yet made a law based on the preaching of homosexuals. If you think I‘m wrong, please point out one. [/qb]

Sorry, I meant by the preaching of homosexuals would be how they go into highschools and talk to already messed up kids giving them even more to deal with, and by how some (not all) are trying to pass laws like this ristricting freedom of speech. And I know for a fact that elementary school children in B.C. have to read books about homosexuals, about what they are and what they do. Also some people just use their beliefs to justify killing other people. Just like 9/11, the oklahoma bomber and abortion-doctor killers. I know for a fact that murder is wrong and these people are just twisting their beliefs so they don‘t feel guilty afterwards.

 

[nbk]

Originally posted by willy:
[qb] The Bible is irrelevant. How would those of you who make religious arguments against homosexuality feel if a Taliban style government were to come to power in Canada and proclaim Shari`ah? We shouldn‘t make law based on the moralistic preaching of any particular group.

I‘m not a homosexual. I‘m also not a Christian, nor do I belong to any other religious denomination. Why should I care if two homosexuals want to get married any more than I care whether or not Christians want to go to church? Neither affects me, so neither is any of my business. [/qb]

You are right on. Thank you. I was reading over this thread and thought the entire Canadian military had gone insane, until I had gone to your point.

The fact is I still have yet to hear a single solitary argument for having homosexual marriages illegal. Other then "we dont like them and we want to restrict their freedom, and treat them like second class citizens".

I wonder how many people knew homosexuals could not get married to eachother before this issue came up? I sure didn‘t, as it makes no sense. In a supposedly free country like Canada it seems completely backwards to deny people the right to get married, based on their sexuality, race, or anything of the sort.

Listen to this carefully: If it does not hurt anyone, and does not effect you at all, the only way you could condemn it, is if you have unfounded prejudice against it. This makes you a bigot.

Main Entry: big ·ot
Pronunciation: ‘bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

The government should not and cannot support bigorty in a free nation such as Canada. You cannot claim that allowing gay marriage is discriminatory against your religion, because no one is forcing anyone to get in a gay marriage, the option is there for people who want it. If straight marriage was banned, there would be no debate that that would be discriminatory towards heterosexuals. So same goes for homosexuals like it or not. Suck it up and accept it.

Be religious if you choose, be happy that you live in a free country where you are allowed to be religious. But do not for one single second think that your bible or koran or anything applies to anyone else in the country in the slightest. They are your own personal religious beliefs, not one single others. Believe in what you want, but when it comes to the real world, realize we are not in some fairytale fantasyland with gods and wizards and jesuses and dragons and angels, we are in the real world, and your beliefs must be seperated from reality when it comes to things like laws and acceptance of others.

The government is ideally a secular institution, as they need to govern this place which exists in reality. Their policies should reflect that, and not be caught up in fantasy matters.

To the religious people: put yourselves in the homosexuals fabulous looking shoes for a moment. Canada is a hardline Athiest country. The only way to get married is by the government since priests are outlawed. You religious people want the ability to get married in churches by priests, and the government introduces a bill and if it is past then you may be able to.

Then a bunch of people come around and start campaigning to prevent you from being able to get married in a church by a priest. The way in which you want to get married will not effect them at all, yet they still want to prevent you guys from doing it.

"We dont care one way or another if they are religious, but our society cannot allow them to get married by priests. It is an affront to our nation and our ideals and morals. If they get married in churches then what will happen to the kids? They will get brought up with the same morals as the parents. Do you want a bunch of religious people taking over your schools and influincing your children to worship some naked guy on a cross? It starts with christians, but soon they will let muslims, hindus, satanists, scientologists and any number of whacko religious death cults get married and spread their disgusting ideals. We need to protect our children and our families, so we must prevent the religious people from getting married to eachother by priests."

Like it or not, gay marriage will become accepted, just as interracial marriage did. Peope will either adapt and accept or remain stubborn and die off. Its evolution, those that adapt to changes survive, and those who dont will die off.

 

[nbk]

One more thing. I cannot think of one single girl that I have ever met since junior high who was not very openly bisexual. Almost all the guys I know, save a few fascists who just "tolerate" are quite openly bisexual as well.

Most people are bisexual. If you think about it, there is no reason not to be bisexual. If you only like boys or only like girls, you are cutting off 50% of the entire population that you may have a meaningful, loving relationship with.

Personally I‘ve never met a guy who I could see having any sort of romance with, but if someone came along I would not deny them just on the basis that they were a guy. Doing that would just be pertty stupid. If you like a person, you like them, who cares what the specifics are.

 

[ZipperHead]

I‘m not going to make any profound comments here, other than one of the only people posting comments here that makes any amount of sense is NBK.

People need to save their hatred for things that affect them personally, like say a pedophile or a rapist. If it doesn‘t affect you, like a rapist or a pedophile might, let it be. Homosexuals aren‘t out to "convert" adults, or children for that matter, to their way. As for them raising children, which because of biology they can‘t have their own, much like quite a few heterosexual couples, let them adopt children and raise them in a loving, caring environment. Believe it or not, people are born gay, they don‘t become gay (well, that‘s my take on the situation... I‘m sure somebody will "straighten" me out on this (couldn‘t resist the pun)).

The issue of hate literature, and the government judging what constitutes it, is to protect people, even if they are in the minority (especially if they are in the minority, I suppose). If the bible is judged to be hate literature, so be it, and maybe people should examine their beliefs. The Bible was written a long time ago, and many of the concepts in it are outmoded, and as many people have pointed out, we do have a separation of church and state (thank, er, god) in Canada.

I am not religious, but that doesn‘t make me a heathen. I think that I have based a good deal of my morals on Christian beliefs, but also on other beliefs as well, such as Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. I don‘t see why people feel that they have to stick to one "brand" of religion or philosophical outlook, or that one is any better than another. Most religions worship the same god, or concept of god, so what makes one way better or worse.

One of Canada‘s saving graces is it‘s tolerance for many different types of beliefs, and the (general) attitude of live and let live. I think we are influenced too much by our neighbours to the South, and their televangelical ways. I think most Canadians show their faith the way they show their patriotism: quietly (usually, except for those beer commercials) and without preaching. I think the last thing we need to do is start telling people what to think, who to worship, and whom we can and cannot love.

Hate is hate, and is usually based on ignorance and prejudice. Allowing hate literature, in any form, means that we can let our children (whom we have to teach right and wrong) think that is OK to hate people, just because it is black and white, and the government endorses it. Nobody is telling you what to think, just that you can‘t say hateful things because they are in a book, be it the bible or a newspaper.

There, I‘ve had my say.

Have a good one,

Al

 

[atticus]

Originally posted by nbk:
[qb] One more thing. I cannot think of one single girl that I have ever met since junior high who was not very openly bisexual. Almost all the guys I know, save a few fascists who just "tolerate" are quite openly bisexual as well.

Most people are bisexual. If you think about it, there is no reason not to be bisexual. If you only like boys or only like girls, you are cutting off 50% of the entire population that you may have a meaningful, loving relationship with.
[/qb]

I‘m sorry, that just makes no sense. Are you saying every girl you met is openly bisexual? And that most guys you know are openly bisexual?

 

[stukirkpatrick]

(well, that‘s my take on the situation... I‘m sure somebody will "straighten" me out on this (couldn‘t resist the pun)).

No, you have it right there, Sergeant. I learned in my psychology courses that although it still isn‘t 100%, there have been biological links made to homosexuality, proving that it is not merely a lifestyle choice.

If its not their choice, let them do what they want, since they probably have no alternative.

 

[nbk]

I‘m sorry, that just makes no sense. Are you saying every girl you met is openly bisexual? And that most guys you know are openly bisexual?

Yes I apologize for not being clear. All of my friends who are girls, and all of the girls who I have known since about junior high (when they first start to take intrest in sexuality) have been pretty openly bisexual. Some of the guys I know are more bashful and maybe not that mature, but most of my male friends are also bisexual.

But for girls I know it to be certain, because it seems all the girls I know have had girlfriends or just fooled around with their friends. Girlfriends that I have had, have all been with other girls before me and sometimes still fooled around with other girls while I was dating them, which I didn‘t mind too much. And this is hardly just me, people I talk to on the internet and soforth are all the same. It is just the maturity level that people have nowadays. People are more open about their sexuality, much more easygoing, and concerned about enjoying life, and not denying themselves enjoyment for arbitrary reasons (people‘s gender).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Three cheers for the toronto love parades.

Speaking of open sexuality, have you seen the latest reality TV show to come out?
Its about husbands and wives swapping patners. (meaning their kids are going balastic). Real smart. There comes a point where people are too open. Reminds me of a good quote i heard.

‘Careful your not too open minded or your brains will fall out‘