Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)

[Good2Golf]

Kev T,

HR is considered a Teir 1 capability (hence why FBI HRT SOAU is considered a Dom Teir 1 unit), 427 Sqn, and 450 Sqn before it, conducted only a portion of the big picture Teir 1 gamut (i.e. Dom HR and CT only), but it would still be correct to say that Teir 1 capability was being provided...first to RCMP SERT, then JTF 2. 

I suppose depending on whose definition you use, SWAT does HR work, but being lower than national level, my gut feel/opinion is not to call them Teir 1 at all.  I would say a "Teir 1" HR capability is nationally generated and executed, FBI HRT Domestically and DevGrp/SOAD(D)/etc... internationally...

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Kev T]

Thanks for the answers - kinda clears things up a bit. Seems like there are in fact a few different types of definitions out there. I would agree with you though that a police SWAT team is not close to being a Tier 1 unit at all. But where does that leave green ops as there are a lot of specialized missions on the green side - does this make all green ops strictly tier 2, 3...? Thanks again.

 

[KevinB]

Tier 1 being NATIONAL LEVEL OF INTEREST CT/HR

USSF (green beenie groups) does HR but for local area. 
CAG/Delta/SFOD-D is the primary US Tier 1 unit with the SEAL DEVGRP (former ST6) having similar but smaller capability.

The Tiering system gets people wound up in knots especially since "Tier II" (Tier 1 support by some definition) is done by the USNR Spec War Dets - while the active Teams fall into someones Tier III def with USSF.... :


FWIW 
Non 11B Pers posted into the RR's DO NOT wear the Black Beret - but have Airborne tab (even if non jumpers) under unit scroll (IIRC it is under)
- non 18"x" pers posted to USSF groups units wear airborne tab on their uniform above the unit patch -- but not the Beret nor the cap cloth (cap badge)  they now wear the gay US Army black beret (which caused the Rangers to go tan BTW) with its ubiquious blue and white starred cap cloth.

CAG - rarely uniformed - irrelevant issue according to a couple buddies who are shooters there.

 

[Michael OLeary]

NOTE that there is now a seprate thread for discussion of tan berets and other CSOR fashion issues.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/39085.0.html

 

[Armymedic]

Well the CAT 1 standard is taking its toll...or is it the PSP staff's standards?

The pass rate for the first couple weeks was at 57%. Most people are failing pushups (PSP standards) or swim test (who knew cbt boots and rifle could be so heavy).

So far nobody has had any problem with the BFT, except the occasional frostbite.

 

[aesop081]

Well the CAT 1 standard is taking its toll...or is it the PSP staff's standards?

The pass rate for the first couple weeks was at 57%. Most people are failing pushups (PSP standards) or swim test (who knew cbt boots and rifle could be so heavy).

So far nobody has had any problem with the BFT, except the occasional frostbite.

I was expecting alot worse than that to tell you the truth

 

[The_Falcon]

Well the CAT 1 standard is taking its toll...or is it the PSP staff's standards?

The pass rate for the first couple weeks was at 57%. Most people are failing pushups (PSP standards) or swim test (who knew cbt boots and rifle could be so heavy).

So far nobody has had any problem with the BFT, except the occasional frostbite.

Is PSP still making people do push-ups, with the elbows held close in to the sides?  Cause I saw a noticed posted outside the PSP office in the Denison building saying that they would no longer be using that method anymore.

 

[MikeL]

Hatchet man, when I did my last PT test, PSP Staff in Edmonton didn't say anything about having arms held close to the side. Just had to have my hands under my shoulders an fully extend my arm going up, an have my chest go a few inches off the ground when going down.





KevinB, I've seen a cook in the 75th Ranger Regiment wear the scroll an black beret (when they had it), but he also had his Ranger tab. You sure about the non 11B/C's having a Airborne tab under the scroll? Not doubting you, just something I've never seen. I've seen Medics an Commo guys in the Regiment an they wore just the scroll an Ranger tab(if they had it) aswell as the Black Beret(an now Tan).

I thought support troops in the SFG's wore Maroon berets?

 

[Journeyman]

Is PSP still making people do push-ups, with the elbows held close in to the sides?  Cause I saw a noticed posted outside the PSP office in the Denison building saying that they would no longer be using that method anymore.

Did the notice say why? All that does is isolate the triceps somewhat; nothing too horrible about that

 

[The_Falcon]

Did the notice say why? All that does is isolate the triceps somewhat; nothing too horrible about that

It did, but I don't remember the exact wording, and I am not going to speculate. I saw the notice when I was in Denison for a DRU ex in December.  The only thing that stuck in my mind was they would no longer make you do push-ups with your elbows into the sides.

 

[Armymedic]

went down to watch as my medics are covering the safety side of the pt test.

Standard is, hands with finger facing towards head.
Hand placed with fingers under shoulders (may be all or just the thumb).
Hands can not move.
Feet together, body flat.
when down upper arm must be parallel to the floor .
Must go all the way up until arms are straight.
Once start, you can not stop.

Most guys who failed did over 50, but only had mid 30's count.

 

[The Gues-|-]

Most guys who failed did over 50, but only had mid 30's count.

mid 30's count? what?

 

[The_Falcon]

went down to watch as my medics are covering the safety side of the pt test.

Standard is, hands with finger facing towards head.
Hand placed with fingers under shoulders (may be all or just the thumb).
Hands can not move.
Feet together, body flat.
when down upper arm must be parallel to the floor .
Must go all the way up until arms are straight.
Once start, you can not stop.

Most guys who failed did over 50, but only had mid 30's count.

Sounds like what was written, were they made to keep thier elbows close in to their sides?

 

[Recce41]

Ye
Here in Gage the pool was closed. I like the close push ups, I do a lot of dips. The pullups are the BS here, I'm a long skinnie guy. So wide ones are my preferance. As for the pool, the weapon out of the water is BS. my test is in May,field DS until then so my PT will drop.

 

[Lav968]

Is there any info on the pt test.  I've seen the pam circulating through the unit on CSOR but it says pt test is being developed.  I was just wondering as to what it consists of if it is finished.  I am assuming that it is working along the lines of the Coopers test (min 75 aggregate as per JTF II standards) but again, just an assumption.  It says to contact local PSP staff but unfortunately our pt staff here are never home and do not return calls    Any info would be great.  Chimo!

 

[The_Falcon]

Is there any info on the pt test.  I've seen the pam circulating through the unit on CSOR but it says pt test is being developed.  I was just wondering as to what it consists of if it is finished.  I am assuming that it is working along the lines of the Coopers test (min 75 aggregate as per JTF II standards) but again, just an assumption.  It says to contact local PSP staff but unfortunately our pt staff here are never home and do not return calls    Any info would be great.  Chimo!

Go back a few pages and the you fill see what the pt test consists of.  Hint look for the post that is in all caps.

 

[Armymedic]

Ref the PT test, if you fail one portion, ie pushups, you must redo the entire test. Both days.

 

[M Feetham]

Hey all,
I don't know if any one is still watching this thread or not, but I am going to write this anyway. I put my application in two weeks ago and am still waiting for word from my COC. I did a practice test with PSP staff a couple of days before I applied. All went well there was no problem with the pushups. Did 45. The big thing with that is to check with the guy who is monitoring you and make sure you both agree on what a good pushup is. I know that some of them can be really stupid about the pushups and the situps. Sometimes they fail the recruits on technicalities. Calling the same number three or four times. Makes you want to smack it right between the eyes. Also there is a course for succesfull applicants that starts in April. I beleive it is four months and it is to train personnel in the job that the unit will be doing and not a grind the guys and see who makes it out the end kind of course. Some of that information is on the Canforgen, some of it I got from guys who have applied and done their tests. Some of them have buddies who are already posted to the unit and are on their way now. If any one else has any information please send it on.
Thanks
Marc.

 

[043]

Word on the street is that it doesn't matter if you pass the PT test or not right now. If you pass the Pysch eval, they will accept you and get you into shape. First 14 days of the course will be testing, shooting, etc.
Ash,

Rumour out here is that only 50 of 150 pers from 3RCR passed the PT test............any truth to that? Hard to believe!

 

[little jim]

Word on the street is that it doesn't matter if you pass the PT test or not right now. If you pass the Pysch eval, they will accept you and get you into shape. First 14 days of the course will be testing, shooting, etc.
Ash,

Rumour out here is that only 50 of 150 pers from 3RCR passed the PT test............any truth to that? Hard to believe!

Nobody should be applying thinking that it’s not essential to pass the PT test.

The chain of comd monitors the selection process.  The CO / RSM do have the final say - this is in part based upon recommendations from the Somalia Enquiry.

Chapter 20 - PERSONNEL SELECTION AND SCREENING

20.6  The Chief of the Defence Staff ensure that, for any future composite combat arms unit:

a. formalized criteria for selection to the unit are established;

b. the Commanding Officer have maximum freedom in selecting personnel for that unit; and

c. the Commanding Officer have maximum freedom to employ personnel as the Commanding Officer deems appropriate.

It is key to note that the new unit is not the Airborne Regiment.  Think about it - US Army has the Rangers and various Airborne units.  Australia has both 3 RAR and 4 RAR Cdo.  The British Army has both the Parachute Regiment and the SSR....If you what to what if this to death think that if the CAR still existed it would have be culled to provide the initial intake for the Cdn Spec Ops Regt (Look at what happened to 1 Para)