Canada's purchase of the Leopard 2 MBT

[3rd Herd]

Just a small point, tanks don't have "pilots".  They have a Crew Commander, Loader, Gunner and Driver.

Isn't the media supposed to check its facts?  Perhaps a minor detail but an irritant. 

;D
Leopard 2 in Flight
Courtesy of the Department of National Defence, GN2002-0247-01d

 

[George Wallace]

;D
Leopard 2 in Flight
Courtesy of the Department of National Defence, GN2002-0247-01d

Done that in 3B trying to keep up with Garry in 3A on the way to the Railhead in Ralston.

By the way, that is a Leopard 1 C 2..........not a Leo 2.

 

[3rd Herd]

By the way, that is a Leopard 1 C 2..........not a Leo 2.

"Courtesy of the Department of National Defence". 

 

[George Wallace]

Public Affairs Officers, like all the Press, really suck at AFV Recognition.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

We had to do that jump for the big dog and pony we did every year for the Staff College.  Staunch Gladiator.  It was stupid, the tank was always bombed up, ammunition would fall all over the place....it was a stupid stunt that I had to do twice.

I guess it looked good, though.

 

[Franko]

We had to do that jump for the big dog and pony we did every year for the Staff College.  Staunch Gladiator.  It was stupid, the tank was always bombed up, ammunition would fall all over the place....it was a stupid stunt that I had to do twice.

I guess it looked good, though.

Glad you said it....        ;D

That damn picture is everywhere...and everyone and their dog claims to have been in that tank doing the jump.

Regards

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I can name a few that have done it.

And I know that there are also a few that say they have done it, but haven't.

I still say it was one of the sillier things that the army ever made me do!

 

[Kat Stevens]

I made my AVLB (sans pont) do a wheelie. Well, first three road wheels off the ground anyway.  Not recommended, by the way.

 

[3rd Herd]

I thought one of the reason's we went with these was because they did have A/C?

Lone wolf,
there is an article going back to July in which an "unnamed" German officer expresses doubt as to the a/c possibilities as the Dutch tanks may not have the power to supply such units.

"Beyond the challenge of finding a Canadian company to do the upgrades, engineers will have to overcome technical hurdles.

German defence sources are skeptical whether an air-conditioning system can be installed on the older A4 variant of the Dutch tanks.

“That depends — I’m quite honest — on the auxiliary power unit,” said a German army source, who asked not to be identified.

“I’m not aware whether the power unit in the Dutch tanks is able to handle the load.” http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2007/07/25/4367625.html

also there are reports that the "the borrowed German tanks by the end of 2008". Are free, the Germans are not charging us for them.

Edit for George's Post Below

"The Germans, who've been criticized for not allowing their troops to take part in the fighting in southern Afghanistan, have refused to take any money for the tanks Canadians have borrowed.
"http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070802/Leopard_tanks_070802/20070802?hub=Politics

As to the sales, Chile is looking at buying some also with the money from Copper sales.

 

[George Wallace]

also there are reports that the "the borrowed German tanks by the end of 2008". Are free, the Germans are not charging us for them.

I don't know about that, so I will leave a rumour as just a rumour for now.  However, this will be a good "Sales Pitch" for the Leo 2, with it in a War Zone where actual combat is being waged.  Although they were deployed by the Germans in Kosovo, they did not receive any enemy fire.  A big selling point for the M1 and Challenger, are that they have seen combat and been 'proven'.  I think the Germans would also like that 'selling point' to be able to be said about their tanks.   Perhaps they can give us a discounted rental fee for providing them this testing and advertising.  ;D

I wonder if the French may start to think along the same lines and deploy LeClercs?  ;D

 

[larry Strong]

Is upgrading to a larger auxiliary power unit a major refit?

 

[ironduke57]

That you don´t have to pay for the borrowed tank´s themself was mentioned in more then one publication, so IMHO it is most likely so.

Regarding the APU´s on dutch tank´s. AFAIK at least there A4´s (as our´s too) don´t have an APU.

Here are some pic´s of the two borrowed ARV´s:

(Source: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=367292&id=669356328&l=37359, taken by Sean Stafford)

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[TCBF]

Back around 1990 or so, we had a rep from Krause Maffei visit the 8CH(PL) in Lahr and give us all a briefing in the SNCO Rest Area about the Leopard 2, which was a contender for the New Tank Project (under Col Nurse).  The question was asked if the tank had/could have installed air conditioning and he replied "Yes".

So, what does "Handle the Load" mean in a 1500 HP Tank? (That's 1500 HP until the cooling fan sucks away 165 HP or so to operate).

As for 'jumping tanks', I can vouch for the fact that being on the loader's side on landing and getting your left hand caught between a ready-racked HESH rd and a collapsing 2000 rd COAX bin is no fun.

 

[George Wallace]

As for 'jumping tanks', I can vouch for the fact that being on the loader's side on landing and getting your left hand caught between a ready-racked HESH rd and a collapsing 2000 rd COAX bin is no fun.

.......but it feels much the same as if you were water skiing.    ;D

 

[Red 6]

I don't know about that, so I will leave a rumour as just a rumour for now.  However, this will be a good "Sales Pitch" for the Leo 2, with it in a War Zone where actual combat is being waged.  Although they were deployed by the Germans in Kosovo, they did not receive any enemy fire.  A big selling point for the M1 and Challenger, are that they have seen combat and been 'proven'.  I think the Germans would also like that 'selling point' to be able to be said about their tanks.  Perhaps they can give us a discounted rental fee for providing them this testing and advertising.  ;D

I wonder if the French may start to think along the same lines and deploy LeClercs?  ;D

There's no arguing that I'm a big fan of the Leopards and I've always thought they were awesome tanks, and every bit as capable as the M1-series. To be fair though, it will take a whole heck of a lot more than 20 tanks in Afghanistan for the Leo 2 to have the same combat proven stamp that the M1 and Challenger have. This has absolutely nothing to do with the outstanding Canadian Soldiers who are serving in these tanks. Anyone who has read my posts here in the forum knows how much I respect and admire your men and women in uniform.

 

[George Wallace]

RED6

It really doesn't matter if there are 20 or 2,000.  It is the mere fact that there are some employed in Afghanistan.  It has nothing to do with the soldiers manning them, but the opportunity for some salesman in Germany to now say that their tank has seen combat.  The better it survives, and performs, the more the PR people will be able to put a spin on it. 

 

[Red 6]

You're probably right George!

Mark

 

[Donut]

Was that not the rationale for the offer of the L2's for the 1st Gulf War (or 2nd, if you count Iran-Iraq)?

I was at UBC shortly thereafter, and it was accepted (and taught) by some of the "better" profs in the department that the L2 was offered to Canada, if we'd chosen to deploy armour, so they could add the "Battle Proven" label to their marketing.  At the time, if I recall, Germany was still prohibited from deploying forces outside their borders.

Any truth to this, or urban legend?

 

[George Wallace]

Never heard about the Leo 2.  Did hear of the offer from down South for the M1.  TCBF and a few others also heard of it. 

 

[Franko]

Heard about the Leo 2 offer at the time at the school.

Regards