Canada's New, Liberal, Foreign Policy

[Humphrey Bogart]

Kleptocracy is such an awkward term....but's it's how much of the 'third world' works.


Nigeria, as a light-hearted romp through the heart of darkness:

Percentage of Nigerians earning less than $1/day rose from 55% (2004) to 61% (2014), while millionaires have increased by 44% to 16,000 -- overwhelmingly government and military leaders.  Yet Boko Haram continues to run amok, while the UN says " :tsktsk: "


Globe & Mail, 17 June 2014.

Nigeria is an interesting case, in that corruption and criminal activity is pretty much considered a legitimate form of business there.

Going back to my earlier post for a minute:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/120802/post-1409759.html#msg1409759

I believe Eeben Barlow's message I posted was largely directed at the Nigerian government and military establishment.  His company, STTEP, has some recent history with them and he worked closely with them when he was involved in Sierra Leone in the 90's.

Another good book to read, if you're interested in learning about the Nigerian military corruption is a book called "Gunship Ace: The Wars of Neall Ellis, Helicopter Pilot and Mercenary"

See book here:  http://www.amazon.com/Gunship-Ace-Neall-Helicopter-Mercenary/dp/1612000703

Although not specifically about Nigerians, Ellis ended up having to work with the Nigerian Army in Sierra Leone, so his dealings with them are detailed extensively in the book.  My takeaway from it all was "don't ever trust a Nigerian".

Ellis actually recounts how he eventually went about underminning the Nigerians after he found out they were working with the people they were supposed to be protecting Sierra Leone from.  A very interesting look into the world of UN Peacekeeping corruption.  Another reason I never understand why Canadians get all hot and horny about UN Peacekeeping?  :dunno:

 

[dapaterson]

NigeriaMontreal is an interesting case, in that corruption and criminal activity is pretty much considered a legitimate form of business there.

We're no saints either...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

We're no saints either...

Don't worry DP!  I've read the book and got the inside scoop!

EDIT:

It was only after reading "Mafia Inc." that I realized Gelataria protection rackets could be so lucrative  ;D

DON'T PAY THE MAN!  NO MORE SORBET FOR YOU!

This book is also one of the sources I use to justify my great disdain for the Liberal Party of Canada, as their paw prints are all over the Italian mob.

 

[dapaterson]

This book is also one of the sources I use to justify my great disdain for the Liberal Party of Canada, as their paw prints are all over the Italian mob.

Well, they weren't the ones taking "consulting" payments in cash for an alleged pasta business, while still sitting as a member of parliament.  Because an Oliphant never forgets.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well, they weren't the ones taking "consulting" payments in cash for an alleged pasta business, while still sitting as a member of parliament.  Because an Oliphant never forgets.

True!  Although I suppose corruption crosses political boundaries in Quebec.  The difference being, Montreal is a Liberal stronghold.  Brian Mulroney was a Red Guy disguised in Blue.

 

[dapaterson]

And so was Sir John A during the Pacific scandal?

 

[Kirkhill]

And so was Sir John A during the Pacific scandal?

Och sure he wuz.  Did ye no ken that he fought as a Liberal Conservative and his backing came from all those Scots in Montreal's Golden Square Mile?  We're just as capable as ony of cutting a sharp deal.    [ iper:

Edit - It has always been a great source of amusement to me that the Anglos that Francos generally pretend to despise were, by and large, Scots.  I have no problem with the English taking the blame.

 

[Rocky Mountains]

Edit - It has always been a great source of amusement to me that the Anglos that Francos generally pretend to despise were, by and large, Scots.  I have no problem with the English taking the blame.

Only the French would accuse the Scots of speaking English.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Well, we cannot, at least, fault our Liberal friends for not telling the truth. An article in the Globe and Mail about the new, Liberal foreign policy in the Middle East closes with a brief mention of Israel and Minister Dion's assurances that Israel "had nothing to worry about from Canada strengthening its relationship with the other legitimate partners in the region."

But change will not come too soon, said a senior Liberal ...

              “First we want to make sure we’ve got the Jewish vote back,” he said.

It's so nice to see principle back in foreign policy, isn't it?  :

 

[George Wallace]

Well, we cannot, at least, fault our Liberal friends for not telling the truth. An article in the Globe and Mail about the new, Liberal foreign policy in the Middle East closes with a brief mention of Israel and Minister Dion's assurances that Israel "had nothing to worry about from Canada strengthening its relationship with the other legitimate partners in the region."

I am wondering whom those "legitimate partners in the region" may be?  Will they give legitimacy to what were otherwise considered 'Failed' or 'Terrorist' States by previous Governments?

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, we cannot, at least, fault our Liberal friends for not telling the truth. An article in the Globe and Mail about the new, Liberal foreign policy in the Middle East closes with a brief mention of Israel and Minister Dion's assurances that Israel "had nothing to worry about from Canada strengthening its relationship with the other legitimate partners in the region."

But change will not come too soon, said a senior Liberal ...

              “First we want to make sure we’ve got the Jewish vote back,” he said.

It's so nice to see principle back in foreign policy, isn't it?  :

No racism there, eh?

 

[Ostrozac]

I am wondering whom those "legitimate partners in the region" may be?  Will they give legitimacy to what were otherwise considered 'Failed' or 'Terrorist' States by previous Governments?

They are definitely talking about UAE, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia; these are the three nations that are either confirmed customers of LAV 6.0 or have been kicking the tires. It may also include Iraq/Iraqi Kurdistan -- who we are, of course, currently training and arming.

UAE, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are not currently threats to Israel -- none share a border with Israel, all three share Israel's distrust of Iran, and all three nations are, in fact, currently fighting a nasty war in Yemen against Iranian allies. A war that may be spurring their interest in modern wheeled IFV's.

And as for Canada's terrorist-supporting adversaries in the region? Well, that's traditionally Iran, who is a close ally to Iraq. And as to what our long term policy goal is in Iraq/Iraqi Kurdistan? Well, I don't think anyone really knows. Is it to remove ISIS and cement Iranian influence from Afghanistan to Lebanon, influence backed by a Russian veto at the UN? That's not a good plan from Israel's perspective.

 

[Kirkhill]

I would add Jordan and Oman to the mix.  They are both VERY solid.

 

[George Wallace]

Yes; but what of their views on the Palestinian State, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Libya, and a few others?

 

[Ostrozac]

Yes; but what of their views on the Palestinian State, the West Bank, Gaza, Lebanon, Libya, and a few others?

The views of the Liberal Party? I'll take a stab at it. There are no votes or dollars in supporting (or even talking about) Palestine or Libya. Lebanon, on the other hand, is a potential gold-mine politically due to the diaspora presence in Canada and the numerous Canadians living in Lebanon (more Canadians live in Lebanon than in the Yukon or Nunavut), but it is also full of traps, particularly for politicians inexperienced in foreign affairs. Giving the Lebanese Army lots and lots of guns is already being done by the US and Saudi Arabia, and the collaborative/coalition nature of Lebanese politics makes working with their government very interesting, as Hezbollah has seats in parliament and members at the cabinet table.

I think the Liberals would like the Government of Canada to be more heavily and publicly involved in Lebanon, but they don't have any real ideas on how to do it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>more Canadians live in Lebanon than in the Yukon or Nunavut

Canadians who were born in Canada or immigrated to Canada from countries other than Lebanon, or Lebanese holders of Canadian-passports-of-convenience?

 

[Ostrozac]

>more Canadians live in Lebanon than in the Yukon or Nunavut

Canadians who were born in Canada or immigrated to Canada from countries other than Lebanon, or Lebanese holders of Canadian-passports-of-convenience?

Conducting a census is illegal in Lebanon (another of their fun quirks!), so it's mostly guesswork from me, but I'd expect the Canadians in Lebanon have a similar breakdown to the ethnic Lebanese-Canadian community, which StatsCan places as half born in Canada, half born in Lebanon.

But it doesn't really matter what flavour of citizens they are -- it's a large community of Canadians that guarantees: first, Canadian politicians are interested in Lebanon because of votes and second, there is a military/security interest in Lebanon, because the next time they get into a war, there are thousands of our citizens caught in the middle of it (just like in 2006).

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Conducting a census is illegal in Lebanon (another of their fun quirks!),

Not illegal, just very difficult politically.

They had so much trouble with the last one carried out in that nick of the wood a little more than 2000 years ago.  You know, back there, when you have a census, everybody has to travel back to the town of their ancestors to register. And the PR flack you would get if, perchance, some poor pregnant women  gets there, can't find any room at the Motel and ends up giving birth in the parking garage at the back ... All hell would break loose.

;D

 

[Brad Sallows]

Canadians in Lebanon who are Lebanese who came to Canada, got citizenship, and returned to Lebanon, are passport-of-convenience "tourists" and I'm not inclined to worry about their welfare.  If that describes most of the Canadians in Lebanon, then we certainly should not take any extraordinary measures that we are not taking to protect Canadians who are abroad anywhere else.

 

[Kirkhill]