Canada asks for Chinook design changes; military expert worry about delay

[Jammer]

The Aussies are taking delivery of NH-90s....

 

[Fraz]

Funny thing nobody has made mention lately of any possible orders of the Bombardier ARH as an escort for Chinooks, as opposed to the 'souped up' Griffons in 1 Wing.  The US Army has already placed all the orders, the line is running, would we not be able to place a piggy back order?  As an aside, with the sales of the Super Cobras to the Turks, any chance of refubished Cobras or Super Cobra gunships from the USMC/ US warstock.  That being considered the lack of $, more than likely prohibits us from getting little or any Apaches.

 

[Panzer Grenadier]

I believe the government is thinking long term in not acquiring cobras/apaches or any other type of attach helicopter, as once the Afghan mission is over what are we to do with them - train? Plus the public would never allow us peacekeepers have anything as aggressive and threatening as attack helicopters - oh no sir not us! 

Can anyone else detect the sarcasm?

 

[Fraz]

Hence the bombardier ARH, it can be used for ISTAR  and command as well as escort and light attack

 

[danchapps]

Plus the public would never allow us peacekeepers have anything as aggressive and threatening as attack helicopters - oh no sir not us! 

What if we had the nice folks in the paint shop paint them up like fluffy bunny rabbits, think the beatnik hippy bunch would let us get them then?

 

[je suis prest]

Hence the bombardier ARH, it can be used for ISTAR  and command as well as escort and light attack

Do you mean the Bell ARH-70?  If so, it seems unlikely that project will be able to deliver any aircraft within the time frames required by the Afghan mission.  I understand the prototypes are still undergoing test flights.

 

[Fraz]

Well, if the ARH-70 isn't operational yet, is not the airframe based upon the kiowa? or just continue the upgrades/mods to the griffons and do the trials and eval for the ARH doctrine, actually serve as the interim utility/recce/light attack/ escort helo.

 

[MarkOttawa]

ARH-70 based on civilian 407 is Bell, not Bombardier:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/comanches-child-the-arh70-armed-reconnaissance-helicopter-updated-02421/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/arh-70.htm
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_arh70.php

I think it will be built in Texas (commercial 407 built in Quebec):
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/business/story.html?id=249aab9e-2e6e-43e6-92f0-279a5c557d78

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

For further discussion on the ARH please refer here:    Canadian Attack Helicopters  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/46687.0.html

You may also wish to review these threads:

Attack helicopters:

why isn't canada spend some of tht money to buy some apaches -- http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/46506.0.html
The Apache Longbow -- http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37789.0.html
Attack Helicopters -- http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1159.0.html
What do you think about this?? (HIND) -- http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/47439.0.html

 

[Great white Hype]

Buying used Chinooks from US
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-mackay-hooked-1.htm

Trading CL-604 Challengers for Mi-17's, before giving them to ANA
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-czech-helicopters-1.htm

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Re: CASR's take on the Chinook purchase.

They are entitled to their opinion, but that's not the way I heard it went down.

BTW- the strength of an argument is usually in inverse proportion to the amount of personal attacks contained within the argument.  But, whatever- I'm sure that a prof at SFU knows way more about the aircraft business than than the Air Staff does... :

 

[Great white Hype]

Re: CASR's take on the Chinook purchase.

They are entitled to their opinion, but that's not the way I heard it went down.

BTW- the strength of an argument is usually in inverse proportion to the amount of personal attacks contained within the argument.  But, whatever- I'm sure that a prof at SFU knows way more about the aircraft business than than the Air Staff does... :

appropos SFU- agreed
The Mi-17 deal looks hasty to say the least..

 

[aesop081]

from the CASR article about the 6 CH-47Ds

undeployable air force

I dont spend a whole lot of time at home. Thats rather odd for an undeployable organization. The CH-124 comunity is turning at full tilt deploying with the Navy. The CC-150s and CC-130s are burning through aircraft and crews at a high rate supporting the Afghan mission. The TUAV task is taking a huge toll on 1 Wing operations and soon will consume another 2 air force wing's personel. The CH-146 will soon join ops in Afghanistan. We have Air Force ATC folks deployed on several operations overseas ( TF El-Gorath and TFA come to mind).

Yeah...undeployable......

:

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Well it is from CASR after all....

 

[Good2Golf]

meh.....personal/group opinion, incredibly far removed from reality, thinly veiled as purported professional journalistic material. 

I didn't think that "group" ad hominem attacks were a mark of professional journalism?  ???


G2G

 

[KevinB]

Well it is from CASR after all....

Too true -- and unfortunately people think they are in their lane  :

maybe I should start commenting on neurosurgery -- and CASR can quote me..

 

[FoverF]

The CH-146 will soon join ops in Iraq.

:-X shhh... Its supposed to be a surprise ;D

But seriously, if we get 6 Chinooks "for now", and the government sees that the CF can get the job done with 6... Why are they going to want to buy more than 6? Or even trade-in the ones we get initially?

Honestly, when I first heard the idea, the first thing that came into my mind was that the CF is very likely to get stuck with the number of airframes in the initial delivery (even if they do eventually get traded-in for new-production models).

I know it's speculation, but what do people here think are the odds that Canada really will see a fleet 16+ new-build Chinooks (that belong to us)? Is this something we should be holding our breaths for?

 

[beenthere]

Holding your breath isn't a very good idea.  We used to have 8 Chinooks and they were just enough to prove that we needed a minimum of 16 in order to have a sustainable but rather small fleet to provide training, support domestic operations, and support a small deployed force. 6 Sounds like a contingency plan for a limited scope and duration to cover the short term until 16 with specific to Canadian requirement models can be produced.

 

[Kirkhill]

Isn't there a parallel with the Leos?

The Army parlayed a short term crisis into both a short term solution and a longer term commitment. 

The Germans and Dutch are operating upgraded 2A4s as 2A6s.

The Yanks are (or will be) operating upgraded CH-47Ds as Fs.

 

[geo]

Well, we committed to 4 C17s and have taken delivery of 2 aussie units - which we will return the favour - from 1st two from our four unit order...
We got a few M777s from the US Marines (so new that we were the 1st country to field them in combat) and have another bunch on order.
After seriously contemplating getting rid of all our Tanks - we've turned around, borrowed 20 Leo2s for immediate needs and are committed to 100 more.

I see no reason to doubt that we'll go through with the order for Chinooks & Hercs - as billed as planned AS REQUIRED