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Can a busy female politician give reliable evidence? A judge says no

PMedMoe

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Lisa MacLeod is a young female politician who commutes to her job at Queen's Park from Ottawa and leaves her husband, Joe, and four-year-old daughter, Victoria, at home. Mr. Justice Douglas Cunningham of Ontario Superior Court said this is a big distraction for the 34-year-old woman and as a result he felt he could not accept her evidence as corroboration of the Crown's key witness in the recent high-profile, influence-peddling trial of Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien.

Judge Cunningham is 69; he was appointed to the bench in 1991.

His comments, delivered last week in his ruling dismissing the charges against Mr. O'Brien, are now drawing criticism from political strategists and activists who are shaking their heads, wondering when women will be treated as equals in politics.

“It is unfortunate that any woman in Ms. MacLeod's situation may be regarded as less reliable because of the demands placed on her life as a politician,” said Nancy Peckford, national director of Equal Voice, an organization promoting women in public office. “Would the same approach have been taken with a male politician who is commuting and has a young family at home? Probably not.”

On Monday, Ms. MacLeod, the Conservative MPP for Nepean-Carleton, called the judge's reference “pathetic” and “surreal.”

“I didn't know truth had a gender or a family,” she said.

Veteran strategist David Small, who has worked for many strong female politicians, including former Tory senator Pat Carney and former Joe Clark cabinet minister Flora MacDonald, called the judge's comments “absolutely beyond the pale.”

“It's unacceptable from a public figure. … And it doesn't help recruiting women, which I do a lot of, when they as a gender are being dissed as being not up for the job because they have responsibilities for a dependant,” Mr. Small said. “Give me a break.”

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I wonder if my work in Ottawa is not valid because I commute from Kingston?  ::)

 
No Moe, your work in Ottawa is invalid because nothing in Ottawa or coming from Ottawa is allowed to make sense, not because you commute from Kingston ... :D

{duck}

 
Obviously, the Judge didn't take the SHARP course.....      {duck}

I thought male "chauvinistic pigs" were a thing of the past.

Time to step down your honour.

:o
 
WTF? 

I can't wait to see what happens to the judge (any bets on "not much"?), and how much the party supports the MPP for Nepean-Carleton.

- edited to reflect the REST of the story and new post here
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/88362/post-865345.html#msg865345 -
 
Unbelievable.  I mean, really.  OK, she's in Toronto, family is in Ottawa.  Fine, got it.  Been there, done that (different locations, natually.  Petawawa and Gagetown.)  Oh, and let's not forget the troops overseas.  They "commute" to Bazaar-e Panjwayi, or wherever.  I guess we cannot accept ANYTHING they say because of "the stress"

Now, I don't think gender is as big a role in this as Ms. McLeod asserts; however, irrespective if this dude really is "old" school, or if he just thinks that people don't tell the truth when they are working on what is essentially "IR".


Just nuts, either way.
 
I have been following this case and my understanding ( Dont have time to re-read the orriginal full artical) The judge outlined a bit more then her being a woman, politician, mother as to the reasons he did not fully accept her version of the events.  It was also not a overriding concern WRT the verdict.  Me thinks some politicians are looking at some easy points to get names into the press.
 
helpup said:
I have been following this case and my understanding ( Dont have time to re-read the orriginal full artical) The judge outlined a bit more then her being a woman, politician, mother as to the reasons he did not fully accept her version of the events.  It was also not a overriding concern WRT the verdict.  Me thinks some politicians are looking at some easy points to get names into the press.


I agree.

I think this is mostly about a gang of Ontario Liberals beating up a senior, highly respected judge who acquitted a well known Conservative who had the temerity to challenge the Liberals' stranglehold on Ottawa City Hall.
 
Otis said:
No Moe, your work in Ottawa is invalid because nothing in Ottawa or coming from Ottawa is allowed to make sense, not because you commute from Kingston ... :D

{duck}

Oh, well, that's a relief.  ;D
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I agree.

I think this is mostly about a gang of Ontario Liberals beating up a senior, highly respected judge who acquitted a well known Conservative who had the temerity to challenge the Liberals' stranglehold on Ottawa City Hall.

I was also thinking something along those lines. The pertinent facts intentionally left out of the story and the microscope on the judge's single line just beg for equal time. No judge would let anything such as this go with just a single sentence. They will bore you to tears with their lengthy descisions. This has all the makings of a politically induced smear campaign and nothing to do with women's capabilities.

Just my  :2c:
 
My bad, too - I retract my original comments.  Thanks for the rest of the goodies Moe!

Here's what stood out for me from the decision:
I cannot conclude that Ms. MacLeod's evidence is corroborative of Mr. Kilrea's assertion that the "offer" was still outstanding in late July 2006.  Ms. MacLeod's recollection of a brief; casual portion of her conversation is so imprecise that, through no fault of her own, I must assign it little weight.
Quite a leap from this to the story's version:
Mr. Justice Douglas Cunningham of Ontario Superior Court said this is a big distraction for the 34-year-old woman and as a result he felt he could not accept her evidence as corroboration of the Crown's key witness in the recent high-profile, influence-peddling trial of Ottawa Mayor Larry O'Brien.
More like "the statement was so vague, and so second-third-fourth-hand, what she remembers or doesn't can't confirm or deny what was said".
To use a dusty old stats phrase, correlation =/= causality.

 
The telling is in para 63. It was the defence that established the significance of her commuting. The judge merely referenced and reiterated it.

The judge rightly concluded (para 64) that her recollection was so imprecise, and the casualness of the conversation so insignificant, that it could not be accepted, no matter the reason. 

Once more, we have people trying to manufacture the news instead of just reporting it. Typical Mop & Pail. Everyone is stupid in their eyes.
 
It's pretty "good" politics.

I imagine that the Ontario Liberal "communications" team thought this one up and shopped it around. Jane Taber, from the the Good Grey Globe's national parliamentary press gallery team grabs it because there's not much national news in Ottawa these days - Harpers in Latin America. She is, perhaps, not quite as sensitive to Ottawa vs Queen's Park issues as some other, local journalists might be.

The story made the front page, above the fold, of the morning print edition today's Ottawa edition of the Globe and Mail. I just finished rescanning today's (morning) Ottawa Citizen. Nothing; not a word; nada. The front page features AC/DC lead guitarist Angus Young, a story about Nortel's Zafirovsky and another about a proposal to use the old, 1903-1927 Ottawa Senators jersey.


1879003.bin



There's nothing inside the Citizen, either - not even in the City section.

Ho-hum.

The rather sad part is the Mr. Justice Cunnigham cannot defend himself against this slander; he's fair game for more Liberal Lies.
 
I followed the story as it is in the local paper. Hence why I posted that I did not get that feeling from this judge, whom most reporters have stressed. Went well and above what was expected of him in providing a clear and concise reasoning for his verdict.  That it was taken out of context by anyone let alone the slant of the politician does not suprise me.  Trouble is sound bites like that cause others to jump to conclusions that are often not warrented. 

Moe is one of the more level headed online persona's I know and look how she jumped.  :-)  just kidding moe

It does bug me though that retractions or rebuttals of a major story are burried more often then not.
 
helpup said:
Moe is one of the more level headed online persona's I know and look how she jumped.  :-)  just kidding moe

Kidding about me jumping or being level headed?  ;)
 
Yeah, yeah, yeah ... but what about that great heritage jersey for the Sens?
 
helpup said:
I followed the story as it is in the local paper. Hence why I posted that I did not get that feeling from this judge, whom most reporters have stressed. Went well and above what was expected of him in providing a clear and concise reasoning for his verdict.  That it was taken out of context by anyone let alone the slant of the politician does not suprise me.  Trouble is sound bites like that cause others to jump to conclusions that are often not warrented. 

Moe is one of the more level headed online persona's I know and look how she jumped.  :-)  just kidding moe

It does bug me though that retractions or rebuttals of a major story are burried more often then not.

What I am wondering most is who brought this out into the MSM, and what is their "Political Agenda"?  Obviously someone doesn't want the mayor to get off without a conviction and criminal record.
 
George Wallace said:
What I am wondering most is who brought this out into the MSM, and what is their "Political Agenda"?  Obviously someone doesn't want the mayor to get off without a conviction and criminal record.
McGsquinty taking to much heat over the HST for Bantario? ::), Anything with an anti Conservative bent is what he needs right now.


Perhaps my new hat is getting too tight
 
I have to ask, is this a fraking political reality or what??? are we waiting for the punch line?

*La big sigh*

IMHO Bull**i* ithe polite answer when I hear the screward view from the hill.  :-X
 
kratz said:
I have to ask, is this a fraking political reality or what??? are we waiting for the punch line?

*La big sigh*

IMHO Bull**i* ithe polite answer when I hear the screward view from the hill.  :-X

Go back and READ the thread.

Follow the links, too.
 
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