CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

[Lord ReZ]

I believe that no one boot, no matter how many sizes it comes in, fit every soldiers feet properly. I don't see the big deal in boots. If they're black, and don't look stupid, why should a soldier not be allowed to wear them? Danners, swats, magnums, matterhorns, bates, all should be allowed without the usual whining by higher ups claiming that a standard is broken. Well then, perhaps every beret should be formed the same too? Everyone will wear the same type of glasses, blah blah blah. It makes no sense for little things like that.

I'm glad in my unit, the term "common sense" applies. We are allowed to wear any boots we please as long as they're black, come at least 8 inches high, and don't look silly. Makes everyone lives easier, allows every soldier to wear a pair of boots they're most comfortable in while still maintaining that "black army boot" appearance.

 

[armyvern]

I believe that no one boot, no matter how many sizes it comes in, fit every soldiers feet properly. I don't see the big deal in boots. If they're black, and don't look stupid, why should a soldier not be allowed to wear them? Danners, swats, magnums, matterhorns, bates, all should be allowed without the usual whining by higher ups claiming that a standard is broken. Well then, perhaps every beret should be formed the same too? Everyone will wear the same type of glasses, blah blah blah. It makes no sense for little things like that.

I'm glad in my unit, the term "common sense" applies. We are allowed to wear any boots we please as long as they're black, come at least 8 inches high, and don't look silly. Makes everyone lives easier, allows every soldier to wear a pair of boots they're most comfortable in while still maintaining that "black army boot" appearance.

Yes, the strict application of "common sense" would indeed be nice.

Glad to hear as well that "your" Unit applies it.

What are you going to do when you go to (let's say) Gagetown (or elsewhere) on a course and wear "whatever" boots and the BRSM or School RSM asks "where's your chit or those?" ... And you don't have one??

What your home Unit aproves for wear (or doesn't) is one thing ... but head to a base and belong to them while on course etc ... and some of them don't give two shits what your "home unit" does - you are "their student" now; some places tend to stick "to the books".

I personally, give "no shits" about what boots you wear on you feet, but do NOT show up at clothing stores whining for us to issue you combat boots to wear "cause they won't let me wear my own boots while here on this course" because you didn't bother to bring your issued ones with you and get called on 'em by the staff. Standard response: "Hope you got someone at home who can courier them to you ..." (while shaking my head and walking away).

That happens at least 3 or 4 times a week and it's really getting old. Then again, so are the infantry guys showing up for courses at the Inf Sch who "forgot" to bring their tac vests.  :

 

[Lord ReZ]

The training schools I've attended on both as student and staff, the leniency towards soldiers having their own boots seems to be increasing. Soldiers who refuse to bring their issued boots to try and get away without wearing them, well....I'm glad you give them the cold shoulder . Easy enough to get a chit, don't give those lazy troublemakers leniency!

That happens at least 3 or 4 times a week and it's really getting old. Then again, so are the infantry guys showing up for courses at the Inf Sch who "forgot" to bring their tac vests.  :

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Boots, the supply system and the medical system and the way it works, vice the way it is supposed to work is the subjec to this post of mine, which will more than likely be a rant.

- '03 or so, doing my medical Part I and II over at the Stad hospital, the MWO PA sees that I am pronating (I think thats the term, my feet fall "inwards"), which I didn't do when I was sworn in at all.  Sends me to the foot clinic, foot clinic does their thing, and off I go to get orthodics.

- orthodics don't fit in my issued boots (the old Cmbt boot or the CTS Wet Weather boot.  Supply sends me to local contractor for "special combat boots".  However, I am only issued 2 pair of boots, and take 1 "summer" (Magnum Stealths) and 1 "winter" (Bates M-9 Assault boots).  I go to Special Footwear at FLog and ask how come I am only getting 2 pair of boots to replace 4 pair of 'issued' boots.  No answer given, just "thats all you are entitled to. 

- CEMS project 3ish years later begin issueing CEMS boots.  Get issued 1 x pair of the new CWWB, they fit fine UNTIL I put my orthodic in them.  Civie sup tech tells me the only option I have it to take a wider or longer pair of boots.  I ask "so, the answer is to give me boots that don't fit my feet in order to accomodate orthodics, which will then leave me with orthodics in boots that are too big, which will eventually lead me back to the MIR with a different foot problem?  Civie suppie says "these boots are supposed to be suitable for 95% of AF personnel".  I guess although I am the other 5%, I still only get them.

- life goes on, I get issued the 2nd set of CWWBs, as I thought maybe, just maybe, it was that specific pair of boots.  Nope.  2nd set the same.  I explained I was assessed for special boots for my orthodics already, and civie sup tech notes that, yes, I have special footwear on my clothign docs.  Says there is nothing he can do though.  I continue wearing my Bates with the CEMS boots in my closet.

- CEMS issues Temperate Combat Boot last summer.  Same issue with my orthodics in those boots.  When I have the orthodics in, every step I take, the steel toe pushes down on the top of my toe joints, whatever they are called, and inside of an hour, I am limping around.  So back into my 1 pair of Magnums everyday.  My CoC at the time start telling me I have to wear the issued ones.  I say I can't with the orthodics.  Told 'well don't use the orthodics then'.  Ya, right.  Dumbass.

- Speaking to a supp tech, tell him about all of this crap.  He used to work for Flog, and says that no, I don't wear the issued boots if I have been assessed for special cmbt boots for my orthodics, which I was send to be assessed for during a medical, which the foot clinic then sent me for orthodics AND issued me a chit, which Special Footwear at Flog then added to my clothing docs.  He suggests I go back to Wing Supply and tell them I have been to the foot clinic and WAS assessed by the specialists who DID issue me special footwear, etc.  Off I go to Supply.

- same civie supp tech is at the counter.  Explain AGAIN that I have special footwear to accomodate my orthodics, which I can't wear in the CEMS boots, and that my special issue boots are really in bad shape (been wearing them for how long now?) and need replacement.  I also bring up the issue that I only have 1 "summer" and 1 "winter" boot, although I am supposed to have 2 x pair of each, the same issue I have of CEMS boots.  I try to turn in my CEMS boots, and am told he won't take them.  He says although I have special combat boots on my clothing docs, he can't send me to Special Footwear until he has a chit.  I already HAVE a fuckin' chit.  This is when I started clenching my fists I am sure.  He again says he can only put me in wider or longer boots.  I say "I will NOT wear boots that are the wrong size for my feet.  I don't need longer or wider ones, I need ones with a deeper footbed because of my orthodics."  He says "you'll have to go to the hosptial to be assessed at the foot clinic."

So.  Tomorrow morning at 0730, I will be back at the foot clinic, to tell them although they have assessed me in '03, and every 2 years since then (including last spring, when I went for my new orthodics...) I am back to be assessed for what they already assessed me for 6 fucking years ago and every 2nd year since.  :

Now...am I the only one that gets fucking mad over this shit? 

For anyone from the medical and supply world, here are my questions:

1.  How many pair of special boots am I supposed to have?  Isn't it the same as I am entitled to in CEMS boots (4 pair total)?

2.  If the medical world has sent me to the foot clinic, who has assessed me for orthodics and Special Footwear at Flog has put special cmbt boots on my clothing docs, how long is that good for?  Does it *run out*?  Its not like my goddamn feet are going to correct themselves. 

3.  Why are supply techs being told to put people in boots that aren't the right size for people's feet?  Boots that are too wide, or too long, or too short are NOT the right size boots and will cause foot problems, which the medical types will then have to assess and treat...which they already did for me.  Now, the solution to orthodics that I have to wear because of X years of clumping around in the old combat boots and shitty liners, is to put those orthodics which correct the problem into boots that are too long or wide, which will then cause a different problem with my feet?  :

Fuck me.  My blood pressure is up again just typing this.  This has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have ever dealt with in 20 years in the CF. 

 

[COBRA-6]

I feel the rage man...

I was sent to the CFSU(O) foot clinic by the CFSU(O) clothing stores because they changed their policy and my chit from my doc at the CFSU(O) HCC, which was less than a year old, was no longer valid, only chits from the foot clinic would now be accepted... FFS

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I hear ya!  But, in my case, it WAS the foot clinic who assessed me.  What a gong show.  The part that I don't get is the guy at the counter telling me they were told to put people in boots that are longer and/or wider than a mbr's foot, when what we/I really need is one that has a deeper footbed.  Which the CEMS boots do NOT have.

:brickwall:

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Conversely...

I am sure there was a point when the "standard" or "all dressing the same" (right to the same boot laces etc etc) was based on common sense or a sense of purpose (eg looking good on a parade, stretched out and often limited supply chains in extended campaigns etc). However, those responsible for conformity and dress regs (at schools, bases and units) have to start thinking big picture, ie preventative medicine. I for one do NOT have a chit for COTS boots, however, I am not going to frak up my feet and joints with sub-par GP boots just so I can say, "hey look at my feet and what the system has done to them, I am combat ineffective, now give me my chit!" If an RSM challenges me on my COTS boots, I would gladly challenge him/her on why I would willingly wait for my feet to be ruined just to fix the problem after the fact.

Now, this is not an endorsement for anyone to get into RSMs' faces about this issue. I just believe in using whatever works to get the job done, even if it does not always "conform" to a so called standard (esp when it comes to black/tan boots - get over it and focus on the tasks at hand!!).

Rant ends.

 

[chrisf]

It's funny how there is always a line of people looking for the published order that states they have to wear the issued boots.  You never come across anyone asking about the order for any other specific item.  "Where is the CF instruction that says I have to wear the issued combat pants? you know - because I think I'd be happier in my Levis jeans."

Sorry, but that's flawed army-style logic. I defy you to show me a single case where there was a long term injury that has been caused by wearing, or could have been prevented by not wearing issued pants. (I do know of a single individual who has medical authorization to wear the old style combats due to an allergy to somthing in the cadpat combats, however there was no long injury caused)

I'll accept that "rules are rules" and that I have to wear issued boots (And then I'll ignore it, because very few people around here give a darn about issued vs non-issued boots, and I've got a vague medical chit for boots anyway) however, unlike pants, and ninja-sniper-wannabes aside, there are a great many documented injuries caused by issued boots, or that could have been prevented by not wearing issued boots.

My issue of disgust here is because of a handful of draconian attitudes, or what I like to call the "toy soldier" mentality, the army would rather wait until injuries have occured, and do what they can do help the injured party along after, rather then prevent the injury from occuring to begin with.

The concept that looking "identical" is what makes us a professional fighting force is dangerously out of date, the army should save it for the drill square, and let people get on with the business of soldiering. "Legally" (referring to the geneva convention, not to issued orders) we're only required to wear a recognisable uniform. No one is going to argue that wearing different sorts of boots is going to make us any less recognisable as Canadian soldiers.

The argument that it makes us look unprofessional in the eyes of the public, is also groundless. Are your boots clean and shiny? That's all it takes. John Q. Public won't know the difference if you're wearing SWATS or WWB or MKIIIs or Danners. He's clean, that's what they notice.

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Added to above by MCG, what looks unprofessional is soldiers in the sandbox (for example) jury-rigging all kinds of addons (due to necessity) to the POS tacvest flipflopping about, or Browning HPs falling out of M9 Beretta holsters. The list goes on.
THAT's what looks unprofessional.

 

[Dirt Digger]

I feel your pain.  I have what can be best described as "monkey feet".  When this is coupled with low ankle mobility and orthotics for my pronation, I find very few boots will actually fit my feet.  (Then there was that bilateral fasciotomy for chronic compartment syndrome...but that's a separate headache.)

So far, I've dealt with boot issues in Winnipeg, Toronto and Trenton with different levels of success.  My understanding (which was aided some time ago by one of Vern's posts) is that:

a) the medical system gets you walking in a straight line, and
b) the supply system has to fit whatever system that takes into a pair of boots.

The problem are different levels of knowledge and understanding from both sides of the house.  Sometimes even different policies on bases about who you have to see first or who you need a check in the box from...clinic, supply, specialist, physio, etc, etc.  I've had a doctor write me a chit that said "authorized Danners" (um...no...authorized a boot that fits).  I've also had a Supply Tech insist that the current issued boot would fit my foot with my orthotic.

/Rant on
I'm sorry...I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass, but I do believe I know more about how my foot is fitting inside a boot than anyone else does.  Oddly enough, that foot is attached to my central nervous system...if it's inside a shallow boot with a deep orthotic and I can feel the stitches in the top of the heel cup digging into my heel...maybe, just maybe, I know what the hell I'm talking about.  A longer or wider boot will not correct a depth problem!
/Rant off

Anyways, I now have the heel scars (and photos) to show to the next individual that knows more about my feet than I do.

Current status: Through the system I have issued one pair of winter boots (Danners), one pair of summer boots (Rocky 911) and two pairs of desert boots (Danners).  I love my Rockys, but they're certainly nowhere as durable and long-lasting as the Danners.

I don't know if I've had better luck than most, but it pisses me off that something as critical as footware quickly becomes a gongshow.  I have a serious problem with the belief that something as complicated and varied as a human foot can be squeezed into a single boot design. 

 

[Loachman]

We must be truly spoiled here in Borden. Base Supply has always been a delight.

They purchased two pairs of Magnums for me when the issued hot weather boots would not fit (fit problem, not a medical problem), and swapped the POS a** f**ce Cold Wet Weather Boots, that killed my feet and in which I could not walk straight, for the Army version. I have not used the latter, and probably never will, but they are a much better fit and I can actually walk in them.

I did not even have to ask about the hot weather boots. The nice civilian lady saw the fit problem, filled out a form, and sent me into town to pick out something better.

 

[armyvern]

~Whew~

Boots, the supply system and the medical system and the way it works, vice the way it is supposed to work is the subjec to this post of mine, which will more than likely be a rant.

- '03 or so, doing my medical Part I and II over at the Stad hospital, the MWO PA sees that I am pronating (I think thats the term, my feet fall "inwards"), which I didn't do when I was sworn in at all.  Sends me to the foot clinic, foot clinic does their thing, and off I go to get orthodics.

- orthodics don't fit in my issued boots (the old Cmbt boot or the CTS Wet Weather boot.  Supply sends me to local contractor for "special combat boots".  However, I am only issued 2 pair of boots, and take 1 "summer" (Magnum Stealths) and 1 "winter" (Bates M-9 Assault boots).  I go to Special Footwear at FLog and ask how come I am only getting 2 pair of boots to replace 4 pair of 'issued' boots.  No answer given, just "thats all you are entitled to. 

Bullshit.
You are entitled to:

2 pr Combat Boots or 2 pr GP boots); and
2 pr CWWBs (gortex winter boots).

That's 4 pair of issued boots. If your orthotics do not fit into the 2 pair of cbt boots (or 2 pr GP boots as the case may be) that you are entitled to, then you are entitled to have 2 pair unlined/non-gortex/summer custom/LPOd boots which do accomodate your orthotics.

Additionally, if your orthotics do not fit into the 2 pair of CWWBs that you are entitled to, then you are entitled to have 2 pair lined/gortex/winter/waterproof custom/LPOd boots which do accomodate your orthotics.

That equals 4 pair of boots 2 pr of each). Exactly what you are entitled to be issued, just yours will be custom/LPOd.

But, now you're Air Force ...

- CEMS project 3ish years later begin issueing CEMS boots.  Get issued 1 x pair of the new CWWB, they fit fine UNTIL I put my orthodic in them.  Civie sup tech tells me the only option I have it to take a wider or longer pair of boots.   I ask "so, the answer is to give me boots that don't fit my feet in order to accomodate orthodics, which will then leave me with orthodics in boots that are too big, which will eventually lead me back to the MIR with a different foot problem?  Civie suppie says "these boots are supposed to be suitable for 95% of AF personnel".  I guess although I am the other 5%, I still only get them.

The yellow bit: the civvie is RTFOOer - tell 'em I said so and to check the CFSM. It is the civvies JOB (and SUPPLY's responsibility) to ensure your boots FIT. Making you take a wider/longer size than you require means THEY DON'T FIT. Most, but not all orthotics can be accomodated within the CTS GP boot, the CTS CWWB and the CEMS CWWB. That means 5% get them LPOd/custom!! <--- Tell him to consult hs &^%$* regulations in the CFSM!

...CWWBs, as I thought maybe, just maybe, it was that specific pair of boots.  Nope.  2nd set the same.  I explained I was assessed for special boots for my orthodics already, and civie sup tech notes that, yes, I have special footwear on my clothign docs.  Says there is nothing he can do though.  I continue wearing my Bates with the CEMS boots in my closet.

Bullshit again. He can read the reference andactually do his damn job.

- CEMS issues Temperate Combat Boot last summer.  Same issue with my orthodics in those boots.  When I have the orthodics in, every step I take, the steel toe pushes down on the top of my toe joints, whatever they are called, and inside of an hour, I am limping around.  So back into my 1 pair of Magnums everyday.  My CoC at the time start telling me I have to wear the issued ones.  I say I can't with the orthodics.  Told 'well don't use the orthodics then'.  Ya, right.  Dumbass.

You are also entitled to have 2 pair of temperate boots purchased for you (if & when entitled to temperate footwear) if your entitled ones do not accomodate your "medically prescribed" orhotics. Once they are bought for you by Supply, tell your CoC this: "they ARE my issued boots" now are you going to allow me to wear them or are you going to order me in writing to disobey a medical officers orders?"

- Speaking to a supp tech, tell him about all of this crap.  He used to work for Flog, and says that no, I don't wear the issued boots if I have been assessed for special cmbt boots for my orthodics, which I was send to be assessed for during a medical, which the foot clinic then sent me for orthodics AND issued me a chit, which Special Footwear at Flog then added to my clothing docs.  He suggests I go back to Wing Supply and tell them I have been to the foot clinic and WAS assessed by the specialists who DID issue me special footwear, etc.  Off I go to Supply.

This Sup Tech above was correct ...

- same civie supp tech is at the counter.  Explain AGAIN that I have special footwear to accomodate my orthodics, which I can't wear in the CEMS boots, and that my special issue boots are really in bad shape (been wearing them for how long now?) and need replacement.  I also bring up the issue that I only have 1 "summer" and 1 "winter" boot, although I am supposed to have 2 x pair of each, the same issue I have of CEMS boots.  I try to turn in my CEMS boots, and am told he won't take them.  He says although I have special combat boots on my clothing docs, he can't send me to Special Footwear until he has a chit.  I already HAVE a fuckin' chit.  This is when I started clenching my fists I am sure.  He again says he can only put me in wider or longer boots.  I say "I will NOT wear boots that are the wrong size for my feet.  I don't need longer or wider ones, I need ones with a deeper footbed because of my orthodics."  He says "you'll have to go to the hosptial to be assessed at the foot clinic."

Medical Regulations (not Supply regulations) state that pers entitled to orthotics must be re-assessed every two years by physio and obtain a new chit if it's determined that orthotics are still required. Ergo, if your chit we have on file is greater than 2 year old, we at clothing can't do anything for you until you re-visit physio. Sorry dude, that's the process on the medical side of the house.

So.  Tomorrow morning at 0730, I will be back at the foot clinic, to tell them although they have assessed me in '03, and every 2 years since then (including last spring, when I went for my new orthodics...) I am back to be assessed for what they already assessed me for 6 fucking years ago and every 2nd year since.  :

Well, if they reassessed you last spring, why the ^*()^$ didn't they give you the new chit? They should know better. They certainly know that we can't buy you new footwear to accomodate your orthotics wihout one if the one you've got is more than 2 years old.

Now...am I the only one that gets fucking mad over this shit? 

For anyone from the medical and supply world, here are my questions:

Nope, read this thread. But, I get the impressin that physio didn't give you a new chit when you were assessed last spring --- that's a problem in and of itself on the medical side ofthehouse; I can't help you there.

1.  How many pair of special boots am I supposed to have?  Isn't it the same as I am entitled to in CEMS boots (4 pair total)?

2.  If the medical world has sent me to the foot clinic, who has assessed me for orthodics and Special Footwear at Flog has put special cmbt boots on my clothing docs, how long is that good for?  Does it *run out*?  Its not like my goddamn feet are going to correct themselves. 

3.  Why are supply techs being told to put people in boots that aren't the right size for people's feet?  Boots that are too wide, or too long, or too short are NOT the right size boots and will cause foot problems, which the medical types will then have to assess and treat...which they already did for me.  Now, the solution to orthodics that I have to wear because of X years of clumping around in the old combat boots and shitty liners, is to put those orthodics which correct the problem into boots that are too long or wide, which will then cause a different problem with my feet?  :

Fuck me.  My blood pressure is up again just typing this.  This has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have ever dealt with in 20 years in the CF.

I jus aswered them all again. And each point you've raised has been asked before on this site.

As for what boots/footwear you are entitled to:

For each and every set of mil pattern footwear that you are entitled to, you are also entitled to custom/LPOd if the "standard issue" mil pattern footwear can not accomodate your medically prescribed orthotics.

And yes, that includes custom-made ankle boots and oxfords that will accomodate your orthotics if you so desire.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Vern,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post.  I think you hit the nail on the head with the "the foot clinic should have given me a new chit" as, they did never give me a chit except the first time I was in back in '03. 

I went to the foot clinic today, explained what was going on.  The physiotherapist did her thing, and then gave me a new chit to take to Special Footwear (it is a memo format request for footwear to accomodate prescribed orthotics, signed by the BSurg. 

When I was at Supply last month, there was a chit on my paper-copy clothing docs, but it was from a while ago as it was for Sgt EITS and was dated 2003 IIRC.  When they said I had to be assessed every 2 years, I tried to explain I WAS assessed every 2 years.  Now I think I see where the issue was, as the physio folks hadn't given me a new chit every 2 years.  So, they (supply) had no paperwork to cover their a**.  Which now makes sense that he told me I had to go back to the foot clinic.  The misunderstanding was in the "chit" vice "be assessed" idea.  I had no idea they were supposed to give me a chit every 2 years for boots. 

They also wrote on my chit the words "Fit issue" with a narrative to follow and phone number to call if there is any questions.

The physiotherapist sort of looked at me funny when I mentioned that they said that a longer/wider boot would solve the problem, she said "but those boots then wouldn't fit your feet". 

However, she didn't mention anything about them not giving me a new chit to take to Special Footwear every 2 years, but she was quick to write me up one after looking at my file...I'd wager that she saw that they hadn't given me one in 6 years, despite me being back in '05, '07 and '09 for new orthodics.

*sigh* After leaving the foot clinic, I went right down to Special Footwear on the dockyard, only to find out they are closed on Wednesdays.  :blotto: 

Thanks again for the reply AV.  Seems that the whole problem was the foot clinic not giving me a new chit every 2 years.  As the end user, I had no idea they didn't do that, or were supposed to do that, at every 2 years assessment.  I just assume the folks doing this stuff know the requirements, and do them.  I'll know to ask next time.  Hopefully there won't be an issue with getting the 4 x pair of LPOd boots, vice the 2 x pair I was given last time.  It kinda sucked to have to wear the same pair of boots everyday, especially in the summer/heat. 

 

[dapaterson]

As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

After reading this, I decided to look around the MARLANT IntraNet site.  Checked the CF H Svc C (A) site and checked out their FAQ.  Nothing there on this process.  Nada.  Tried Patient Services.  No way to find a reference to foot clinics, etc.  I am not sure how mbr's find out about this foot clinic.  I was referred by a PA, and had never heard of it before that.  Sure, a phone call to your CDU might get you the info, but wouldn't having the info avail save mbr's a trip to Sick Parade?  The foot clinic is self-referring here, you don't need to see the CDU staff to go to it, they are detached from the process it seems. 

Finding nothing there, I went to the FLog site, and after stumbling around in there, I found a link to Clothing - FAQs, just by luck.

http://halifax.mil.ca/FLog/customers/Clothing/FAQ.html

The 3rd last item in the drop-down list is "What is the process to get special size footwear?"  From that list item:

We will do want we can to fit you from the sizes available off the shelf. If we cannot fit you from stock, then we will either send you to the hospital for a medical chit or start the process to send you down town to be fitted. If you have orthotics insoles we will still follow the same process as earlier mentioned and if required you will require a chit from the physio department in Stad Hospital, then come down to fill out a request for the boots at the special size counter then we will call when you can go to a civilian supplier to pick up the boots.

It would be nice if:

1.  this information was easier to find;
2.  this information was complete (fails to mention you require a new chit every 2 years, assessment every 2 years);
3.  contained links to CF H Svcs policies and directives; and
4.  contained links to the CF Supply world policies and directives.

 

[PMedMoe]

Unfortunate, but most unit/base websites are woefully out of date (including links to main sites which are no longer valid).  I don't even know if all places offer foot clinics.  The blurb about boots not fitting is wrong as well, at least according to Vern's posts.

If a member simply does not fit into any boots in the system (and has no medical problems), it is a Supply issue, not a medical issue.  So the line about sending pers for a medical chit is wrong.

I do like the line about "we will do what we can to fit you from the sizes available" bit.  Yeah, we'll measure your foot, then ask you to try a pair of boots.  If they don't fit, we'll try wider, then we'll try longer.  Or at least, that was my experience in Kingston.  Unfortunately, it was not recorded on my docs and I have since been posted to Ottawa.  The policy here (apparently) is that you have to wear the boots for at least a week to prove they don't fit.  I was given insoles (not orthotics) at physio here and because they raise the arch of my foot so much, they are not comfortable with my boots.  Physio advised me to go get new boots at Clothing but after the problems I went through in Kingston, I don't want to go through all that (I know, my choice).  The boots hurt like hell without an insole driving my foot higher.  Can't imagine what they'd be like with the insole.  My physiotherapist has ordered me different insoles that I can wear with the boots I am presently issued.

Oh, and I also only have two pairs of issued boots.

 

[Roy Harding]

As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

Give me a "Hallelujah", brother.

From an old post:

...

When the PULL system of amendments came in (late '90s as I recall), I was a Chief Clerk in a major unit.  I began to notice a decline in the expertise of my people - they were CONSTANTLY referring to the online pubs prior to expressing an opinion regarding their area of expertise.  Were they stupid?  Of course not - it was just that they had NO WAY of being confident in their knowledge without checking the online publication EVERY TIME they were asked a question - they didn't know what had been changed without PHYSICALLY (or electronically, if you prefer) checking the publication EVERY SINGLE TIME they were asked a question.

This fact slowed things down in my Orderly Room - none of my subordinates (or ME, for that matter) were able to CONFIDENTLY carry out their assigned duties without CONSTANTLY checking the online pubs.  This became even more onerous with the introduction of DAODs, and the arising of the habit of amending orders via CANFORGEN instead of actually amending the publication in question.
...

Roy

 

[armyvern]

Oh, and I also only have two pairs of issued boots.

What enviornment are you?

Both the types of footwear and the numbers of each type of footwear you are entitled to change dependant upon enviornment and trade.

For example, sailors are not entitled to any pairs of combat boots. Air/Army aren't entitled to 2 pr sea boots.
Sup Techs, MSE Ops, Engr etc are entitled to 2 pr safety boots as well - Infantry guys to none ...

Whatever the case, whatever you are entitled to for your trade & enviornment in stock-issued footwear ... you are entitled to same (& entitled to same qty of each type as if they were your "issued") in custom/LPOd footwear if the mil pattern do not accomodate your orthotics into them.

 

[armyvern]

As with many things in the CF, the problem is in integrating all the moving parts, and ensuring that everyone involved understands the process and their part to play.

We seem to have gotten away from "old" methods of documenting processes and outcomes, and instead have twenty-year old pubs with a stack of CANFORGEN and other messages pasted in in various places.

Actually, this is not the case. In the old days, one had to go to clothing stores or base supply to consult the ever changing glue in-the-paragraph-change hard copy version of the ALM181 CF Supply Manual that covered footwear.

Now, the new manual in it's electronic form (The 007 CFSM) is available to every soldier/sailor/airman who has DIN access right from their own workplace. I've posted the links to it here before and have referenced the applic paras dealing without footwear. No need to cut message ammendments either via CANFORGEN or other means --- the CFSM is updated weekly online.

And for us Sup techs - that electronic version is a HUGE time saver and improvement over the old days of pouring through volumes & volumes of hard copy chapters of the 181 --- and then having to consult the hardcopies of the ammendments to ensure there wasn't an ammendment to your specific ref once you finally dug through 20kms of pubs to find it.

No one has to run any further than their computer. Sure we need to check weekly for updates, but we had to do that in the "old days" too - and it's a 500% more effecient process to do so these days.

 

[dapaterson]

Vern:

That's one pub that's being done properly.

I challenge you to find an up-to-date version of the dress manual, though...