CAF Combat boots policy 2005-2018

[McG]

... at the end of the day the Supply Techs job is to get the right kit in the hands of the end user.

No.  The job of the Supply Tech is the in-service kit.  Getting the right kit is the job of requirements staffs (who come from the user/operator communities) working with Project Managers (Civies and various engineering officers) in Ottawa.

 

[buzgo]

This is where you need to find your Tech Adjutant or Master Gunner, if they exist in your unit and push the UCR through them. Any of the recent Tech Staff/ATWO graduates will have a pretty solid grasp on how to document and report equipment failures, including using the UCR process.

 

[MJP]

  The claim that " I have heard a million complaints about the TAV but only 5 UCRs are written"  is a bit of a cop out,  wouldn't you say? If you hear a million complaints,  then do you staff up reports on the feedback you are getting from the end user? It seems to me that the supply chain is definitely an important route to take these issues up the chain.

Ack.  I know where you are coming from and can see your point.  Now where the responsibility lies IMHO for Techs of all varieties but especially 1st line Techs is to feed/kickstart the UCR process.  I have seen it done very well, but largely the Techs themselves are just as clueless when it comes to the UCR side of the house.  Especially in the Supply world as as MCG has pointed out it is generally the RCEME folks that guide the process.  The LOG and RCEME world don't always work hand in hand so if one isn't talking to the other friction points come up and Sgt Keener from a rifle coy or tank sqn just gives up on the process. 

Mods as an aside maybe a split is in order?  If I get time tomorrow I will post the UCR site along with some reference numbers to some decent UCRs to help anyone thinking of creating one.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Perhaps make a UCR sticky.  :gottree:

 

[BinRat55]

I did that in another thread...

Just in case there are those who wish to complain the right way:

http://ucrs.mil.ca/

 

[Old and Tired]

"The real weight behind changing anything is command pressure full stop.  It is amazing how fast some things change once commanders get involved.  As an aside, there is a Tech reporting mechanism on the UCR site but I have never used it, but from my understanding it is for techs of all natures to ID mechanical issues on equipment

To address your points I feel the UCR process is for units and individuals to display their dissatisfaction with a piece of kit or aspects thereof.  By downloading that responsibility to another agency is IMHO just another way of getting out of doing any real work.  By doing your own UCR(s) or hell even multiple ones on the same piece of kit and getting the Chain of Command on board with their comments (there is a section for substantiation that can be filled out by any number of people) lends more weight than any non-user ever could.  Besides the Supply Tech/AVS/Wpns tech only knows that something has failed to work properly.  The actual end user that experienced that failure know in what conditions the item failed or is lacking and what is required to bring it up to speed.  A Tech of any nature most likely won't have those details or knowledge of every particular job to do a UCR justice.  FWIW I don't say that the end user should be the one to write it because it would be my folks and I want to shelter them from work.  I have been in your shoes and put my money where my mouth is and wrote numerous UCRs to highlight our sometimes shitty kit.  I can honestly say that doing them with several peers, we came up with better write ups and justification than any supporter could because we knew what we wanted our kit to do and be."

This is fine in theory, however when it is the "Command Pressure" that chooses to ignore what the soldiers are telling them, we have a bigger problem to deal with.

No.  The job of the Supply Tech is the in-service kit.  Getting the right kit is the job of requirements staffs (who come from the user/operator communities) working with Project Managers (Civies and various engineering officers) in Ottawa.

I agree whole heartily with this.  Supply techs are not the ones to blame for lack of sizing, lack of availability, bad quality or the changes to orders covering the issue of standard or special sized anything; be it boots, shirts or left-handed nonconducting Gerbers. STOP BLAMING local Sup Techs for things they have no control over.

As far as boots are concerned it's probably a problem that goes back to our great grandfathers heading off to the BOOR War.  I know in my family that's had 4 generations of Canadian soldiers going back to that era Non-Issue, Non-Standard boots have been the go to solution for all of us.  As I was told by my bother the bean counter in Ottawa, the DND and CAF's actual operational requirements will ALWAYS take second place to Regional Industrial Benefits.  There is no way around it.  For the most part the mandarins are more concerned with the "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" as E.R. Campbell continually reminds us.

 

[TCM621]

Just to be clear,  no one is blaming the local supply tech. But Supply MOS works through the entire supply chain, correct? They seem like they are in a position to help.  And I should include Log officers who work the supply side, they are even more important to the cause.

 

[McG]

Just to be clear,  no one is blaming the local supply tech. But Supply MOS works through the entire supply chain, correct? They seem like they are in a position to help.  And I should include Log officers who work the supply side, they are even more important to the cause.

At the national level in ADM(MAT) the technical authorities are civilians or come from maintenance and engineering occupations.  Supply Managers include some Sup Techs, but it is not the job of the SM to tinker with the specifications of the product.  The SM buys the product defined by the TA's spec.

If you as the user have a problem with a piece of kit, communicate that problem and stop looking for someone to do the work for you.  The people in a position to help are users/operators and the chain of command. 

 

[DonaldMcL]

At the national level in ADM(MAT) the technical authorities are civilians or come from maintenance and engineering occupations.  Supply Managers include some Sup Techs, but it is not the job of the SM to tinker with the specifications of the product.  The SM buys the product defined by the TA's spec.

If you as the user have a problem with a piece of kit, communicate that problem and stop looking for someone to do the work for you.  The people in a position to help are users/operators and the chain of command.

I remember this exact lecture from a General in front of ~100 pers currently deployed overseas within the last few months. He didn't have an answer when it was mentioned said paperwork was done (at least by the Air Crew) over a year ago, and sat in Winnipeg for 6 months before even being assigned to someone.

 

[Old and Tired]

Ok, so ADM MAT are the people that need to hear about the problems, understood, then how,  when deployed and we are told by the SLOO of NSE that all UCR' are to be complied and sent to him/her for collation and forwarding to the appropriate OPI, and nothing happens or Clothe the Soldier comes back and says you the user are wrong and the UCRs are ignored; how exactly are we to make the system work as intended. As you said up thread you could old find 8ish UCRs on the TV. From personal experience I know this to be incorrect. On the Boot issue, nothing happens until the Government of the day gets Nationally Embarrassed in the media. Then we go thru the cycle again and get substandard quality foot wear, again. And the cycle repeats.

How do we fix that, and get troops decent foot wear in the process?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I remember this exact lecture from a General in front of ~100 pers currently deployed overseas within the last few months. He didn't have an answer when it was mentioned said paperwork was done (at least by the Air Crew) over a year ago, and sat in Winnipeg for 6 months before even being assigned to someone.

By at least 2 different dets in the ATF.  And they were fairly well done.  ;D

 

[McG]

Ok, so ADM MAT are the people that need to hear about the problems, understood, then how,  when deployed and we are told by the SLOO of NSE that all UCR' are to be complied and sent to him/her for collation and forwarding to the appropriate OPI, and nothing happens ...

That is where you need to engage the local chain of command to sort-out the staff officer who did not forward the UCR.

 

[BinRat55]

A quick search of the pending UCRs show me that there is a grand total of one (1) UCR in on the new LOTB. Raised in Nov, the particulars are regarding sizes not available. Nothing about equipment malfunction.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The UCRs I was talking about are for the (RCAF CEMS Project) Desert Combat Boot.  :nod:  aka "the cripplers!".

 

[smale436]

I lucked out and the STC brand hot weather safety boots broke in for me after a few weeks. Down here at AJAB, there have been varying ways to deal with the boots. Some successful trips up to Arifjan PX and some people ordered things through Amazon. There is also a donation bin similar to the goodwill ones on street corners where people put unwanted clothing, books, footwear, etc when they leave here. A few guys found some pairs of used USAF ones, that despite previous use, cured their issues right away. For the amount of walking you do on the flight line here, our Chief basically said as long as it's tan (though some people wore blacks quite awhile until they found something that worked), steel-toed, and was comfortable for you he has no issue. Of course now it's cold enough at night that in addition to toques and gloves some nights, green fleece or whatever civilian equivalent under the coat is often worn so the tan is kind of a moot point now.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Steel not just 'safety'?

I have Reebok thru the supply system;  weight next to nothing, CSA grade 1 composites. 

There isn't really any boot cops in ASAB;  but the PATCH POLICE are out in force.  :  The new term going around lately I've heard?

CJOC....the J is silent.  ;D

 

[Loachman]

Ahh. Yes. Cee-ock.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Speaking of boots, I heard the boot program was cancelled again.  :rofl:

Guess I'll need to wait another decade for a new pair of boots. 

 

[Aaron97]

Would anyone know if we can wear our own boots in garrison while at our unit?

I plan on buying these ones: https://oakleyforces.ca/footwear?product_id=1450

thanks

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

You'll be wasting your money more then likely given that the CAF is pushing out 2 new types of boots...... Eventually