CADPAT Rain Gear
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BinRat55 said:Oh my, the unadulterated innocence of people!! There was a time when I had THAT much enthusiasm for "kit". Now, I can't wait to get out of this monkey suit!! Don't get me wrong, I love my job, love the military, adore Hillier and the whole nine yards, but when people "can't wait" for certain kit like it's freakin Christmas!!! Wow.
Doesn't that kind of also show how deprived our soldiers are when it comes to good and functional kit? I mean look at the Americans, they've been t the Gore-Tex stage how long now? The shell and liner stage for how long? We're really behind in the game, and honestly what's with people being excited to finally be able to get some kit that'll be good for many seasons, and NOT have to go out of pocket at the same time?!
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MedTech said:
I'll agree and disagree here. I know our soldiers are deprived. As Geo pointed out to me earlier - I actually HAVE been there, done that, but unfortunately i'm not doing it anymore (hazards of being on an air base) There are many, many growing pains regarding personal kit as well as major buys, and i'll be the first to argue we need to get the kit where it needs to be. Just this afternoon I received instruction to NOT issue the ARID kit here, as it will be an in-theater responsibility. Now THAT'S going in the right direction. It will come, and soon we will all have the right kit for the right job for the right soldier/airman/navyplug (my apologies to all the plugs out there).
We are NOT, however, behind in anything. In actual fact, Canada was the first to adopt the Cadpat (C) and expand into the G-Tex from the Integrated Environmental Clothing System and actually ISSUE it to our troops, not sell it. Our CTS program is in a league of it's own. There are many developments in the system now that most people take for granted because that is what they were issued in basic. Let me tell you, it was over a year before I figured I was allowed to wear something other that those polyester boxers!! And that shirt Cold Weather?? My neck was red and sore for a week after every winter ex. Now we have polypro. The Americans do not have the "systems" that we have when it comes to kit. The problem is that they don't have the production issues we have!!
OldSolduer
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Some of the problems I see when a new piece of kit comes on line (or is due to):
1. The saving of money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of the soldiers. I hope, and maybe someone on here will confirm this, is the sharing of kit over? Reference: Goretex kit handed over to the next tour.
2. The issuing of said kit, ie CADPAT rain gear. It seems that the base clerk that sits in the OR gets the kit before the field soldier does. Can we please ensure that the troops that need it get it first? Maybe this has changed.....if so I'll stop blathering.
1. The saving of money. Being fiscally responsible is one thing. I'm all for it, but not at the expense of the soldiers. I hope, and maybe someone on here will confirm this, is the sharing of kit over? Reference: Goretex kit handed over to the next tour.
2. The issuing of said kit, ie CADPAT rain gear. It seems that the base clerk that sits in the OR gets the kit before the field soldier does. Can we please ensure that the troops that need it get it first? Maybe this has changed.....if so I'll stop blathering.
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OldSolduer said:
Ok OS, you can stop blathering now...
In response to your #1 - The sharing of kit is, for the most part, over. The personal kit will be issued to an individual who is entitled until such time as the soldier becomes not entitled. This is true with most CTS items. The entitlements have broadened as well, entitling more individuals to more kit in more places... However, mass kittings and kit returns will be the bill of fare for the majority of missions abroad, as mission specific kit will always be just that - mission specific. That means that ALL individuals would only be entitled to that kit for 6 - 12 months max. We can't just "toss" this stuff and reissue new to new pers, there is a life-cycle to be adhered to. So, while the growing pains continue, so will kit sharing to a degree. Supply regs are as stringent as the I/C of Clothing Stores will allow and fight for, given a warehouse full of garbage or a seacan full of brand new kit - we still have to deny exchanges prior to 50% wear.
In response to your #2 - This was ironed out some time ago. If you go to the CTS site, you will see the order of disbursement of such kit, and in seeing this, you will notice that all first line (mainly combat arms) units are first in line to receive the kit upon rollout. One has to keep in mind here that the kit just doesn't come from the manufacturer right to your units. We have guru's in Ottawa (we sup techs have another name for some of them) whose job it is to get it to the supply depots so we (your friendly neighborhood QM / Clothing Stores) can order it. The problem that we keep running into is when EVERYONE in the supply system sees that the depot now has the "gucci" kit - they start ordering. This ties the supply manager up for weeks, sorting out entitlements and such, effectively slowing down the injection of new kit where it belongs...
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BinRat55 said:
Pretty much the reason for me being excited about the new Rain Gear. I was issued the A/F Suit in St-Jean, had no clue it was A/F only until they took it back upon graduation and gave me the OD outfit. I am all for making sure those in the field get the kit before I do, because really, how often does it rain in the warehouse? (Rhetorical question, I don't think we need the leaky roof horror stories in this thread!)
I'll just say I know I am very fortunate to be issued the kit we have now, and believe me, I appreciate the hardships the previous generation of CF members had to endure for me to get what we have.
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I'm trying hard to understand these "entitlement" charts.
How come my unit F esch per's seem to get the stuff years after others who use it around base?
And when can I swing by Petawawa stores and pick mine up?
Can someone give me a copy of the entitlement chart?Be interesting to see anyway.
How come my unit F esch per's seem to get the stuff years after others who use it around base?
And when can I swing by Petawawa stores and pick mine up?
Can someone give me a copy of the entitlement chart?Be interesting to see anyway.
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BinRat55 said:
Actually this problem was sorted out years ago. New kit coming online carries with it the IM advisory (SSI) code of "order offline via QD message". Any clothing stores can put all the demands (ie "pull" the stock from the depot) they want into the CFSS for Gucci kit, but they aren't going to get it --it'll just sit in there unactionned by the SM.
Now, items are "pushed" out to the appropriate bases BY the SM based upon CTS' priority for distribution. This ensures that those Units going overseas on Ops etc get it first ... and that they get it in the qtys that they required.
Everyone else can sit back and ask "when are we getting ours" all they want, but the fact of the matter is --- you'll get it when those Bases/Units that are ahead of yours are fully kitted, and those Units trg/deployment cycles determine completion of issue timelines. Therefore, no firm dates or expected timelines for delivery to other Units can be given until the higher priority Units ahead of you are looked after. This is a good thing -- they need it first, and others need not worry --- theirs WILL come ... eventually.
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OldSolduer said:
Ref your number two: perhaps that Base OR clerk was previosly posted to an AF base and thus was entitled to and was issued the AF raingear (perhaps they even wore blue DEU)?? The Army DOES work it's priorities for kit issues with a priority on deploying Units, then op field Units, then support Units.
But, one must always remember that support personnel move around a lot, and deploy all the time -- quite often with battle groups which are not mounting at their home Unit, and thus they may have become entitled (and been issued) the kit earlier due to these factors.
There was nothing worse I tell you than being the Clothing Stores sgt when 403 Sqn was issued their cadpat raingear by us (from the CEMS project) ... I had every CSM/RSM on base calling me and ranting about "why the hell are you giving cadpat raingear to AF people first!!" to which the reply was "because it's Air Force raingear, bought and paid for with Air Force money -- not Army kit ... you aren't entitled".
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X-mo-1979 said:
Did you read the thread??
There is no entitlement chart for the cadpat raingear as of yet, and NO distribution plan put into effect. But, you can bet your bottom dollar that pers deploying on upcoming TFs will receive this kit first ... and that a distribution plan will be put into place to distribute to field Units, then support Units based on NDHQs (CTS') determination of Unit priorities. You'll get yours when your Unit makes it to the top of that list (if you don't deploy and thus be issued it sooner) ... no one knows when that will be because it is all dependant upon how long it takes to fully complete the issues to the TFs and Units ahead of yours on the as-yet-to-be-determined distribution list.
And, as for any new piece of kit -- it isn't clothing stores that issues to "Unit X" ahead of yours --- we issue to whom (and when) CTS directs us to.
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ArmyVern said:
You know as well as I do that SSI's don't stop some supply techs from trying. Now, I know that as long as they are not entitled, they won't get one over on the SM, but some people will still try, and this ties the SM up needlessly. On top of that, you have MIS cells (or SM(F)) working to clear unactioned files...
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Well, to be quite honest, as the RSM going to QM I was quite respectful of the QM NCOs who served / serve me. Respect begets respect IMHO... So long as I get a clear and coherent answer to my queery, that answer is good enough for me (Lord knows as SQMS I had to deal with impatient customers )
)
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geo said:
That's all we ask from anybody. It doesn't matter if you're a no-hook or a 4 ringer, if you can't have it - you can't have it. If I don't have it, neither do you. But I will be respectfull and do my darnedest to explain why. There are still a lot of people under the perception that the supply tech or even combat storesman they encounter are the one that made the decision to not give them the kit in the first place. I'd like to get a few (hundred) in my warehouse for a few minutes...
BUT... there are a few combat arms people such as Geo here, who have see the other side and can empathize... Remember - you can't read the amount of experience one soldier has by the look on his face, but you can by the tone of his voice in the face of adversity...
OldSolduer
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I can understand your postion BinRat.
Years ago, when the first generation of fleece was issued, civilian employes were wearing it in CFB Shilo, openly, while the Guns and 2VP were told it was operational kit only.
It's situations like this that make the field soldier suspicious of supply techs and clerks....no offence intended.
I must say the supply side has improved tremendously since 1997.
Years ago, when the first generation of fleece was issued, civilian employes were wearing it in CFB Shilo, openly, while the Guns and 2VP were told it was operational kit only.
It's situations like this that make the field soldier suspicious of supply techs and clerks....no offence intended.
I must say the supply side has improved tremendously since 1997.
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I like to pride myself as up and coming trying to make sure everyone gets what they need, and are treated as well as they can be. I don't lose my cool with the customers, and try and calm them down when they get all bent out of shape. I like to make sure the kit they get is right for them, fits right and is in good working order. I also explain to them why I take so long fitting boots, so that they don't come back because the boot stretched. Anyway, I'm rambling again, and I somehow went from rain gear to boots, I apologize.
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For all those in petawawa who were told we were getting it prior to wainwright,dont bet on it.
Even with some of our higher esch with us,we didnt get squat.Even though it was pushed down for us to go get it.
Base clothing has never heard of it.
Even with some of our higher esch with us,we didnt get squat.Even though it was pushed down for us to go get it.
Base clothing has never heard of it.
