Cadets Joining the Reserves - Can it be Both?

[Drummie]

By signed on, I meant from the CCM's point of view. The CO of the camp in conjunction with the Regional Cadet HQ create a staff slate every year for positions that need to be filled, and while they may be 'tasked' from their unit to work at a particular CSTC, they are more or less 'signed on' to fill a postion by the camp.

No, you didn't say thing about deployment, but by having 'less military training',  I can't see what else you would mean? All RMC students go through all their phase training before they're commissioned. We dont jsut op to take a summer off here and there, meaning we're fully trained and qualifed to do our job upon posting to a unit. That's our 'domestic' experience...The other experience would have to be abroad, in theatre, which we are unable to partake in. Threrefore, while you may have not said "deployment" specifically, there aren't many other options.

Cheers

 

[GO!!!]

No, you didn't say thing about deployment, but by having 'less military training',   I can't see what else you would mean? All RMC students go through all their phase training before they're commissioned. We dont jsut op to take a summer off here and there, meaning we're fully trained and qualifed to do our job upon posting to a unit. That's our 'domestic' experience...The other experience would have to be abroad, in theatre, which we are unable to partake in. Threrefore, while you may have not said "deployment" specifically, there aren't many other options.

Cheers

You are'nt even in Kingston yet, are you?

Are you "more or less signed in" to a CFRC?

Military training refers to the skills you require to perform your assigned duties, or the maintenance or further development of those skills. For the most part, it happens in Canada, unless certain courses/skills require a different venue (ie.jungle). While you are occasionally expected to "train" while in theatre (new weapon, vehicle etc.) you are trained before being deployed.

In your case, you may be the course officer for a basic para, or some other short course if no other Lts are available, or you may come to a unit for some OJT, (where you may or may not be allowed to carry a weapon). At some point you will do your phase trg (I - IV), complete your degree and come to a Batallion (if you are an infantry officer). So not everyone we get is fully trained when they come to us the first time.

So you see there are a plethora of other options other than a "deployment", in terms of your military "experience" as I have outlined above. Also, all of this assumes that you pass, academically during the winter and on your Phase courses during the summer.

I'm sure one of the "better men of the army" can fill you in more completely though. I'm just a Cpl.

 

[Lost_52]

I've heard somewhere that reg F and Res F need not pay compliments to CIC officers? Any truth to this? as i know they hold a commision but its what ive been told by several people.

 

[1feral1]

I've heard somewhere that reg F and Res F need not pay compliments to CIC officers? Any truth to this? as i know they hold a commision but its what ive been told by several people.

1. I've heard somewhere

2. ...what ive been told my several people

Who would tell your BS like that. Don't believe everything you hear, it just fans rumours, and rumours are crap, and bad for the most for everything.

Commissions are simply that, and should be respected for what they are and represent, not necessarily for the (at times) idiots who have them. Regardless, I would have no difficulty salting any CIC officers, if not, just out of courtesy alone, so for even the idiots or not, be professional.

Hope you get the rumour mongers sorted.

Wes

 

[George Wallace]

WRONG.

They hold the Queen's commission...therefore they are to be saluted,

Now.....if only they would have the common courtesy to return the salute when it is given.  Nothing worse than a young soldier recognizing the commission and saluting, only to have a poor example of a CIC officer not acknowledge the compliment.  The few cases in which this happens discraces the whole lot.

CIC officers should pay close attention to the above.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

Someone who is in a cadet unit...is allowed to joined the reserved and continue as a cadet. remember people that cadet ranks are worth nothing in Pres or Reg.

The thing is I dont see alot of this happening...usally the cadet will leave his unit. but it is legal to do it.

the problem is in cadet, all cadet wheter they are 12 or 18 are treated the same way and considered as "minor" with a cadet joining the Pres, were there even if he is 17 or 18 it is not the same game.

At the end he leaves because it is hard to keep that in mind.

 

[Neill McKay]

Now.....if only they would have the common courtesy to return the salute when it is given.  Nothing worse than a young soldier recognizing the commission and saluting, only to have a poor example of a CIC officer not acknowledge the compliment.  The few cases in which this happens discraces the whole lot.

CIC officers should pay close attention to the above.

The example, of course, is equally poor when an officer from anywhere else in the Forces similarly fails to return a salute.  Almost as bad is a proper salute that's returned, but with indifference or sloppiness.  So, in fact, all officers should pay attention to the above.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

As a CIC working within a armory with my cadet corps,

I rarely get saluted by Reserve member. The only one who does it are the old sergent or Higher...

But the private, CPL seems alwways to ignore us.

It is normal to reply to the salute... it is basic training that we teach to our cadet. I dont see why A CIC would not reply to a salute.

 

[dapaterson]

If you don't salute any other officer, you'll know it.

Piper:

My preferred technique is to see the CSM/RSM, and observe that CADPAT works really well - soldiers can't even see the rank.  That helps communicate the message.

 

[Neill McKay]

If you don't salute any other officer, you'll know it. But if you do not salute a CIC officer, they'll usually just keep on going and not say anything.....

That's a good point to bring up.  One of the unfortunate realities of serving as a CIC officer is the distance from the rest of the Forces many cadet units deal with.  For every unit parading on a base or station, there are many more parading in schools and community halls.  CIC officers who haven't had much exposure to the larger CF community are likely to hesitate to comment on an NCM who doesn't salute, perhaps thinking that's the normal way of the world -- another of the countless ways in which what's really done differs from The Book.  There's definitely room for some education on that issue.

 

[Teflon]

The example, of course, is equally poor when an officer from anywhere else in the Forces similarly fails to return a salute.  Almost as bad is a proper salute that's returned, but with indifference or sloppiness.  So, in fact, all officers should pay attention to the above.

Neill McKay, just a quick question,...

How does one return a proper salute with indifference or sloppiness? I wasn't aware of any proper indifferent salutes or proper sloppy ones

 

[Neill McKay]

Neill McKay, just a quick question,...

How does one return a proper salute with indifference or sloppiness? I wasn't aware of any proper indifferent salutes or proper sloppy ones

The junior salutes properly, perhaps even with a cheery "Good morning, sir!" and the senior returns it in a sloppy way, say by not keeping his hand up for anything close to a 2-3 count, or what have you, and replies to the greeting with a grunt (if at all).

 

[Deleted member 9665]

As a commissioned officer, It think it is important to respond with a proper and cheerful way toward someone who salutes you. It works on both ethic and the moral of the troops.

 

[ryanmann356]

i'm planning on going into the reserves after i graduate, then comming back and volunteering with cadets.  Add a real soldier perspective to the cadet training and give back to the program that has given me so much

 

[Neill McKay]

Mmhmm. Thats the problem. So, the problem prepetuates itself when one member does not salute, gets away with it, does it again, tells his buddies etc etc.

Whether you like it or not, CIC officers hold a commisson and MUST be saluted like you would salute a new 2Lt on his first day at the unit or the CDS walking down Rideau Street in Ottawa on his lunch break.

Exactly.

 

[GO!!!]

So, now that we have ascertained that CIC officers are worthy of a salute, what is my recourse when said CIC officer does not return my salute, salutes with his left hand or just nods in my general direction while eating a popsicle?

(yes, all of these happened one summer when I was at Connaught Ranges for CFSAC)

 

[The Bread Guy]

1. I've heard somewhere
2. ...what ive been told my several people
Who would tell your BS like that. Don't believe everything you hear, it just fans rumours, and rumours are crap, and bad for the most for everything.  Commissions are simply that, and should be respected for what they are and represent, not necessarily for the (at times) idiots who have them. Regardless, I would have no difficulty salting any CIC officers, if not, just out of courtesy alone, so for even the idiots or not, be professional.  Hope you get the rumour mongers sorted.

Hey, I've had a Reg Force Sergeant tell me I was "only a Reserve Warrant Officer" on course in the 1980's, so even though we work at it, it seems the rumour mongers are still out there...

As per concurrent Cadet/Reserve duties, not only did I do both (Inf PRes, Air Cadet) for a couple of years, but I had others with me as well doing the same thing.  At one point, I was taking a Sr. ldrs course and teaching a Jr. Ldrs course with the PRes, while at the same time teaching a leadership course in Cadets, with my 2 i/c there taking the PRes jr. ldrs course (he's since become a VERY good RegF cbt arms officer - CO of a unit, in fact).

I guess it all depends on the individual, and the units involved....

 

[Neill McKay]

So, now that we have ascertained that CIC officers are worthy of a salute, what is my recourse when said CIC officer does not return my salute, salutes with his left hand or just nods in my general direction while eating a popsicle?

(yes, all of these happened one summer when I was at Connaught Ranges for CFSAC)

I would suggest that if you're of a reasonably senior rank, and the offending officer of a reasonably junior one, you might politely invite his attention to the requirement to return salutes; only the most ignorant of junior officers will not welcome professional advice from a seasoned NCM.  But if you have to ask the question, your chain of command is probably the best place to go.  And if that should ever happen I would hope that they pursue it and the officer gets a tap on the shoulder from his boss and a quiet conversation on the quarterdeck about the need to return compliments.  If your chain of command, or his, are willing to blow it off then they're part of the problem.

 

[Teflon]

So, now that we have ascertained that CIC officers are worthy of a salute, what is my recourse when said CIC officer does not return my salute, salutes with his left hand or just nods in my general direction while eating a popsicle?

(yes, all of these happened one summer when I was at Connaught Ranges for CFSAC)

Lets just remember that it's not the man/woman you are required to salute it's the commission, so it doesn't matter if one considers a CIC officer worthy or not, his/her commission is.

 

[ryanmann356]

apparently you cannot be a staff cadet at a CSTC if you are a member of the PRes, Dont know why though, any thoughts?

Thanks