Cadets Joining the Reserves - Can it be Both?

[Brad Sallows]

I don't know of any applicable regulations, but once in a while a former cadet who had joined my unit would return to assist the cadet unit on an informal (ie. unfunded) "guest" basis.  Assuming there are no statutory prohibitions, misuse of funds, or conflicts of duty, why not?

 

[reccecrewman]

I can also add to this........... My Regiment has a cadet "RCD" outfit in Ottawa, and there are a number of our NCM's who are actively involved in helping them out in their spare time, and the Regiment is just fine with it.  For the most part, they are ex-Army cadets and want to be able to continue helping to guide the youths.

 

[AoD71]

I don't understand, and cannot think of a decent reason why they don't mix. When I was in the Army Cadets a long time ago I would enjoy visits from a real soldier, someone who's been through the "shit". It's an opportunity to learn new things from people who know what they are doing. Afterall, it was someone who was in the Army who convinced me to join the Cadets.

 

[GO!!!]

The only reason against it would be that you as a member of the CF are forbidden from holding two ranks with any organisation which is a part of the CF, even if they are equivalent.

So I could not be a Strategic Corporal in my unit and a CIC officer in the local cadet corps.

Fighting 47th, you are wrong. The reg F NCMs that are at local Cadet trg centers are from reg force units. They are tasked to a Cadet corps, usually for the summer, before returning to their units. They are not cadets, and while they are there, they are expected to pay compliments to CIC officers, but generally are not under their command, as they have no military management trg.

As for saying the Cadets are not a bunch of pansies because some of them go on to RMC? lets just remember that Kingston is not usually synonomous with hardcore either, and that officer Cadets in Kingston have less military training than most of the troops they will one day try to lead. IMHO, officers that are DEO are usually more well rounded and capable of thinking outside the box than their RMC bretheren, as they are not so completely insitutionalised.

A better statement would be that Cadets are paid, can go on courses like Basic Para, and have a rank structure that rewards hard work and perserverence.

 

[Springroll]

It's called volunteering and there is nothing wrong with someone in the CF volunteering their time to help out a cadet corps.

Back in my days as a cadet we had quite a few CF members that were volunteers with us, teaching us cam and concealment, field movements, house clearing, and even goign aussie style down the cliff during our repelling weekends. Even just general supervision during training and PT nights.

Plus it can look pretty good on your file.

 

[Sh0rtbUs]

Fighting 47th, you are wrong. The reg F NCMs that are at local Cadet trg centers are from reg force units. They are tasked to a Cadet corps, usually for the summer, before returning to their units. They are not cadets, and while they are there, they are expected to pay compliments to CIC officers, but generally are not under their command, as they have no military management trg.

As for saying the Cadets are not a bunch of pansies because some of them go on to RMC? lets just remember that Kingston is not usually synonomous with hardcore either, and that officer Cadets in Kingston have less military training than most of the troops they will one day try to lead. IMHO, officers that are DEO are usually more well rounded and capable of thinking outside the box than their RMC bretheren, as they are not so completely insitutionalised.

A better statement would be that Cadets are paid, can go on courses like Basic Para, and have a rank structure that rewards hard work and perserverence.

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[GO!!!]

Our past RSM was in the military, as well as cadets as the same time.  

Unfortunately, he was in violation of certain QR+Os, and one of his units should have said something, as it is a service offence.

 

[yoman]

Unfortunately, he was in violation of certain QR+Os, and one of his units should have said something, as it is a service offence.

Its a service offence to be in cadets and the reserves at the same time?

 

[condor888000]

Technically no, you can do it with the approval of both CO's...unless it has changed recently.

It hasn't. Still on the books.

EDIT: But for cadets and reserve units only. Reg force is still a no go.

And yeah, your cadet unit can tell you you're obligated to be there, but you're really not. They don't have much (read: any) power over your life outside of that unit. That includes your time when not at a cadet activity.

 

[yoman]

It hasn't. Still on the books.

EDIT: But for cadets and reserve units only. Reg force is still a no go.

And yeah, your cadet unit can tell you you're obligated to be there, but you're really not. They don't have much (read: any) power over your life outside of that unit. That includes your time when not at a cadet activity.

Example to what condor just posted.

My cadet unit wants to see all of flag party and band at the remembrance day ceremony next week. But if I chose too I don't need to go.

I don't know how exactly how things work in the reserves but it would seem odd to me that they can tell you when and where your going to be on certain dates / times since your not in the reg force.

 

[GO!!!]

I don't know how exactly how things work in the reserves but it would seem odd to me that they can tell you when and where your going to be on certain dates / times since your not in the reg force.

Imagine, an army with the capability to tell soldiers where to go and when! These are commonly referred to as "orders" and many militaries have them. It's even a crime not to obey them! Our reserves are part of the army, Cadets are not, which is why you can "choose" which events you feel like attending, and soldiers can't.

 

[condor888000]

Point, but a reasonable excuse as to why you're not there should be accepted. Ie: "I'm in the reserves, so that takes precendence," would hopefully be recieved with an open mind.

 

[yoman]

Imagine, an army with the capability to tell soldiers where to go and when! These are commonly referred to as "orders" and many militaries have them. It's even a crime not to obey them! Our reserves are part of the army, Cadets are not, which is why you can "choose" which events you feel like attending, and soldiers can't.

I understand everything you said. But what if for example, they order you to show up at x at x time but you are working or have some other things going on (ex: Family reasons). Would they frown upon you?

You don't have to show up. But you can also be declared unfit for service in the CF or non-effective strength and told to leave the unit and the CF. Usually, most people who join the reserves take it seriously and show up for as many things as they can. No troop who wants to be respected will skip out Nov. 11th or other important dates.

Showing up for reserve activities is not mandatory, but being in the reserves isn't a right either. They can give you the boot if you are not showing up enough (without a valid excuse).

And yes, your reserve unit can tell you when and where to show up. "Congradualtions Pte. Bloggins, unless you have a valid excuse you have just volunteered to...". Either you take it or risk having a big black mark under your name.

I agree with that. And I support it too. I was just curious to see how far they can tell you what your doing with your time.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Its simple.

What if you have to work? Well your unit (mine does) this wonderful thing called passage of information, and youre told when youre working far enough in advance, that you can make necessary adjustments like getting shift changes, writing your essays and papers early, and getting things done ahead of time.

Exams and term papers are not an excuse.Your professors and teachers dont surprise you and tell you theres one due tomorrow on 2 different books, youll have plenty of time.Much more than you spend in the reserves working.Take the time and initiative and get it done early so you can honor your comittment to your oath.

The same with work... we have calendars that say what weekends and events are being held etc all the way through the training year.The odds of someone not being able to work around months and months of advance warning is unlikely.

A few missed dates here and there is acceptable.Not showing up simply because you dont feel like it or don't want to really gets you in the wrong books.

most of the reasons people miss dates at our unit is because of poor planning and preparation.I went to university for a year and managed to stay on top of everything.It was alot of work.If you don't like it, quit, and stop wasting our time.Now I have two part time jobs including the reserves.Many many other troops do as well.

"Imagine! an army that can tell its soldiers what to do where to go and when!"

95% of the time, whatever somebodys excuse is for not showing up for a weekend/thursday, I guarantee there was a way to rectify it, and the biggest obstacle is lack of initiative and proper motivation.

A valid excuse = I was in a car accident on the way to work, and got my legs mangled.
An invalid excuse = I had homework.

 

[Dane]

Whoever posted on the first page that being in the PRes and Cadets at the same time is a violation of the QR&Os is wrong. There are Cadets all over the country that are in the PRes, and they are NOT in violation of the code. If you could post it with proper reference I'd be glad to debate it.

The only thing as a cadet you are restricted from doing is serving a SCdt contract, and that is a very new rule (so that you cannot have two simaltaneous CF contracts).

 

[GO!!!]

The QR+O states that you may not hold two ranks - I will find it for you today.

 

[yoman]

The QR+O states that you may not hold two ranks - I will find it for you today.

Does this mean you are considering cadet ranks CF ranks? Which is of course incorrect.

Its simple.

What if you have to work? Well your unit (mine does) this wonderful thing called passage of information, and youre told when youre working far enough in advance, that you can make necessary adjustments like getting shift changes, writing your essays and papers early, and getting things done ahead of time.

Exams and term papers are not an excuse.Your professors and teachers dont surprise you and tell you theres one due tomorrow on 2 different books, youll have plenty of time.Much more than you spend in the reserves working.Take the time and initiative and get it done early so you can honor your comittment to your oath.

The same with work... we have calendars that say what weekends and events are being held etc all the way through the training year.The odds of someone not being able to work around months and months of advance warning is unlikely.

A few missed dates here and there is acceptable.Not showing up simply because you dont feel like it or don't want to really gets you in the wrong books.

most of the reasons people miss dates at our unit is because of poor planning and preparation.I went to university for a year and managed to stay on top of everything.It was alot of work.If you don't like it, quit, and stop wasting our time.Now I have two part time jobs including the reserves.Many many other troops do as well.

"Imagine! an army that can tell its soldiers what to do where to go and when!"

95% of the time, whatever somebodys excuse is for not showing up for a weekend/thursday, I guarantee there was a way to rectify it, and the biggest obstacle is lack of initiative and proper motivation.

A valid excuse = I was in a car accident on the way to work, and got my legs mangled.
An invalid excuse = I had homework.

Ok I see. I was just trying to imagine all the possibilities. From what I see, people who don`t show up is because they are poor planners or not committed.

 

[Dane]

The QR+O states that you may not hold two ranks - I will find it for you today.

Cadets don't hold ranks, they're appointed to them. That's also the reason why you can't be an Scdt and a PRes at the same time, because then you would violate that QR&O in a fringe sense.

 

[Drummie]

Dear GO!!!,

Here is what I wrote:
Every summer at Cadet Summer Training Centre's across the country, Res F/Reg F NCMs and occasionally officers are signed on as instructors/advisors for the duration of the camp. All the way from Pte's to CWO's.

And here's what you wrote.

Fighting 47th, you are wrong. The reg F NCMs that are at local Cadet trg centers are from reg force units. They are tasked to a Cadet corps, usually for the summer, before returning to their units. They are not cadets, and while they are there, they are expected to pay compliments to CIC officers, but generally are not under their command, as they have no military management trg.

Other then mentioning they are not cadets, (which I didn't imply anywhere) and stating that the NCM's are required to pay compliments (whiich is implicitly mentioned later on in my same post). I fail to see where, how, or what I'm am wrong on? Are we typing in the same language? Let me break down my small statement for your complete understanding:
1."Res F/Reg F NCMs and occasionally officers are signed on as instructors/advisors for the duration of the camp." =  "The reg F NCMs that are at local Cadet trg centers are from reg force units. They are tasked to a Cadet corps, usually for the summer, before returning to their units."
2. "Res F/Reg F NCMs... All the way from Pte's to CWO's." I realize they're not cadets.. the 'Res F/Reg F NCM' part was key to proper comprension = 'They are not cadets,'

As for saying the Cadets are not a bunch of pansies because some of them go on to RMC? lets just remember that Kingston is not usually synonomous with hardcore either, and that officer Cadets in Kingston have less military training than most of the troops they will one day try to lead. IMHO, officers that are DEO are usually more well rounded and capable of thinking outside the box than their RMC bretheren, as they are not so completely insitutionalised.

Again, comprehension issues...If you'll re-read my post, it said nothing about cadets not being 'flowers' BECAUSE some go to RMC. I was simply trying to convey the argument that in general, members of the CCM are not useless, wasted tax dollars, and many go on to become the future of the CF.
As for RMC OCdts have little military training, you hit the nail right on the head Capt. Obvious! It's a wee bit of a challenge getting on a tour/operation while trying to earn a degree... Not that we wouldn't be up for the challenge.

 

[GO!!!]

Dear GO!!!,

Here is what I wrote:
Every summer at Cadet Summer Training Centre's across the country, Res F/Reg F NCMs and occasionally officers are signed on as instructors/advisors for the duration of the camp. All the way from Pte's to CWO's.

Could you elaborate on where they sign, or where you have ever been "signed on" in the CF? They are tasked, not attached, or posted to and there is a big difference. "signing on" is an ambiguous term with no definitive military connotations other than those associated with the initial "signing up", or enlisting one performs when joining the CF. So you did imply that they were somehow part of the cadet organisation.

Cadets are useful because they gain exposure to the CF for a larger group of Canadians, at ayounger age than would otherwise be possible.

As for RMC OCdts have little military training, you hit the nail right on the head Capt. Obvious! It's a wee bit of a challenge getting on a tour/operation while trying to earn a degree... Not that we wouldn't be up for the challenge.

No one said anything about a deployment, I specifically said training. And I agree, it is a "wee bit of a challenge" to earn a degree while being deployed, and training to do so. Nevertheless, many Corporals in Reg F Infantry units manage to do it. But I would'nt expect you to.

Oh, and I'm not a Captain, and the "obvious" apparently is'nt - not to you anyway. Keep up the good work sir. ^-^