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Cabinet Shuffle- (Wednesday 26 July).

So, what is a fringe? At what point do the ideas say, "You're an outlier." Who gets to decide you're fringe? The people to your right or the people to your left? Do they really exist. Or are they simply the manifestation of someone's biases?

People have opinions and they are entitled to them. Some of those opinions form the backbone of their place on the scale. You can be fiscally responsible and believe in God. Which seems mainstream. However, if your belief in God, the bible and the ten commandment is strong and you think that's an important part of your lifestyle and political makeup, you're called fringe.

People don't seem to peg anyone as fringe, unless they are on the conservative right, and what they define as far right. I could just as easily say the left, especially the whole red liberal left are fringe, based on their belief. While the orange ones are more centrist.

And who is judging and making the determination? The media and their political bosses plant the seed and their unthinking followers pick up the torch. When a leader calls his opposition misogynist, unscientific, uneducated extremists he is defining the 'fringe' he wants ostracized asking what should be done with 'those' people. When in fact, they are not fringe, but just people that want a say in the way their life is lived.

Fringe is a quality with characteristics that don't meet your personal approval. Which is to say, your fringe is not necessarily someone else's and can't be defined by specific parameters.

It's just a bad, lazy personal descriptor

I disagree with your attempt to twist the term into something I wasn’t saying. The closest you come to being correct is when you tie it to the term ‘outlier’, which is a reasonably useful and non-pejorative term. What I refer to as the ‘fringe’, in the context of the CPC, is the socially regressive quasi-faction that delivers a few votes, usually in safe ridings. but costs many more when they’re catered to. This is the group on the wing that has learned they need to be relatively quiet about it, but who still have a desire to see rollbacks on things like same sex marriage, LGBT rights, separation of religion and the state, abortion, etc. In the past few years there has also emerged a much more vocal and distinct crowd that latches quickly on to the conspiracy du jour. They seem more motivated by opposition to the current government than by pushing specifically for any mainstream CPC platform; this is more the sort of fringe I speak of the party excising.

You suggest the only the CPC can be seen as having such a ‘fringe’. That, of course, is silly. Any party has those who somewhat align but want to push some policies or positions much farther than your average person would deem reasonable or prudent. Any party has some people who want to wear their team colours but who make the main stream party figures cringe when they attract attention. This is far from just a CPC issue. I think you’re trying to portray it as such to suggest the CPC are being treated unfairly in this discourse. They’re not. They’re just the party currently in the unenviable position of trying to be a strong opposition and a viable contender to form the next government, while some loud lunatics and ideologies stay latched on and add friction to their efforts.

Any term we choose - fringe, outliers, periphery or what have you is of course subjective. Your ‘fringe’ is not my ‘fringe’. I don’t use the term pejoratively, but just to describe the existence of people who identify most with (in this case) the CPC, but who are an electoral liability. No matter what else the party wants to do or achieve, those electoral realities have to be accepted and dealt with.
 
So, what is a fringe? At what point do the ideas say, "You're an outlier." Who gets to decide you're fringe? The people to your right or the people to your left? Do they really exist. Or are they simply the manifestation of someone's biases?
When a subset of X group is a small minority of that group, then it's an outlier. You can be called "fringe" by either side - the "granola crunchers" would be considered left-wing fringe.

People don't seem to peg anyone as fringe, unless they are on the conservative right, and what they define as far right.
Sure they do. Far-left is "fringe" too, but they aren't making as many public statements as the far-right right now.

I could just as easily say the left, especially the whole red liberal left are fringe, based on their belief. While the orange ones are more centrist.
If you're talking about a majority of a major party, then that's not fringe by definition.

And who is judging and making the determination? The media and their political bosses plant the seed and their unthinking followers pick up the torch. When a leader calls his opposition misogynist, unscientific, uneducated extremists he is defining the 'fringe' he wants ostracized asking what should be done with 'those' people. When in fact, they are not fringe, but just people that want a say in the way their life is lived.

Fringe is a quality with characteristics that don't meet your personal approval. Which is to say, your fringe is not necessarily someone else's and can't be defined by specific parameters.

It's just a bad, lazy personal descriptor
No, that's "I don't agree with X". If, for example, I was an extremely conservative Muslim (I am not), calling the "standard" Canadian society "fringe" because it doesn't meet my (conservative Muslim) beliefs isn't correct, because the Canadian society isn't the fringe.
 
If, for example, I was an extremely conservative Muslim (I am not), calling the "standard" Canadian society "fringe" because it doesn't meet my (conservative Muslim) beliefs isn't correct, because the Canadian society isn't the fringe.

40,000,000 Canadians
1,800,000,000 Muslims
8,000,000,000 People

;)
 
Let's take the named faith out of it

Religion and politics- A grotesquely simplified spectrum in Canada

Mainstream
Varying degrees of faith that influence personal values, life decisions etc.

Fringey
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, believe said faith trumps law and regulation when it comes to personal matters. "I don't care what the law says, I'm going to do X because I (my religious doctrine of choice) says so."

Fringe
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, desire to reshape law and regulation to impose said values and life decisions on society at large. "I want the law to say that you can't do X because (my religious doctrine of choice) says so"
 
Let's take the named faith out of it

Religion and politics- A grotesquely simplified spectrum in Canada

Mainstream
Varying degrees of faith that influence personal values, life decisions etc.

Fringey
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, believe said faith trumps law and regulation when it comes to personal matters. "I don't care what the law says, I'm going to do X because I (my religious doctrine of choice) says so."

Fringe
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, desire to reshape law and regulation to impose said values and life decisions on society at large. "I want the law to say that you can't do X because (my religious doctrine of choice) says so"

Throw in Marxism, Environmentalism and "the cause of the day" into the "faith" envelope and I am in complete agreement.

Conscience often trumps law - as in Conscientious Objector.
 
Let's take the named faith out of it

Religion and politics- A grotesquely simplified spectrum in Canada

Mainstream
Varying degrees of faith that influence personal values, life decisions etc.

Fringey
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, believe said faith trumps law and regulation when it comes to personal matters. "I don't care what the law says, I'm going to do X because I (my religious doctrine of choice) says so."

Fringe
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, desire to reshape law and regulation to impose said values and life decisions on society at large. "I want the law to say that you can't do X because (my religious doctrine of choice) says so"

This. I don’t think many people really care about anyone else’s religion in Canada until someone tries to use their religious views to justify forcing things on others, or to force policy changes. Basically when secularism is breached.
 
This. I don’t think many people really care about anyone else’s religion in Canada until someone tries to use their religious views to justify forcing things on others, or to force policy changes. Basically when secularism is breached.

But what of secular religions?
 
Throw in Marxism, Environmentalism and "the cause of the day" into the "faith" envelope and I am in complete agreement.
Sorry but I can't agree. To be consistent you'd have to include some other "isms" to get the religion treatment- capitalism, conservatism, classical liberalism, feminism, federalism. All ism's, all schools of political thought, economic theory, all sources of political activism that seek to shape society relegated to the fringe category and deemed improper- leading to the ironic (and paradoxical) embrace of anarchism/libertarianism.
 
This. I don’t think many people really care about anyone else’s religion in Canada until someone tries to use their religious views to justify forcing things on others, or to force policy changes. Basically when secularism is breached.
a significant difficulty is the tendency for secularists to try and force their beliefs on all others
 
Sorry but I can't agree. To be consistent you'd have to include some other "isms" to get the religion treatment- capitalism, conservatism, classical liberalism, feminism, federalism. All ism's, all schools of political thought, economic theory, all sources of political activism that seek to shape society relegated to the fringe category and deemed improper- leading to the ironic (and paradoxical) embrace of anarchism/libertarianism.

Agree entirely.

The operative word, I believe, is belief.
 
Agree entirely.

The operative word, I believe, is belief.
we all believe in something or there would be no discussion on any topic on this website. The greater ones conviction the more likely that you will brand someone of the opposite conviction as a zealot. If you don't ironically I truly feel sorry for you. Each of us need convictions
 
Could you please provide an example

All policy is based on people believing that a particular course of action is necessary. Covid. Carbon Taxes. Income Taxes. Maintaining an army. All are based on beliefs. The courses of action are imposed on society at large by people who believe available evidence.

The problem always is that all evidence is up for debate. Some people will dispute the evidence. Some will dispute the oracles. Some will dispute the course of action. Ultimately it doesn't matter what the provenance of the belief is. What matters is the dispute resolution mechanism.

Some people will point to the Courts and Constitutions and decry the tyranny of the majority.
Some people will point to Parliament and open debate and decry the tyranny of the oligarchy.

I fall into the latter category as I am not persuaded that the Constitutionalists have demonstrated a better track record than the Parliamentarians.

But that is just my belief.

Perhaps we can meet on the floor of the House of Commons and debate it.
 
Fringe
Strong faith that completely informs personal values and life decisions, desire to reshape law and regulation to impose said values and life decisions on society at large. "I want the law to say that you can't do X because (my religious doctrine of choice) says so"
Islamic authorities state that is the duties of Muslims in non-Muslim countries. Also which the fundamental Sunni Islamist's have worked hard at doing and spent Billions to ensure their concept of Islam is preached around the world. The Shias sort of would like to do the same but don't have the money, organisation and people to do so. Also the IRGC is more interested in criminal self gain.
 
Islamic authorities state that is the duties of Muslims in non-Muslim countries. Also which the fundamental Sunni Islamist's have worked hard at doing and spent Billions to ensure their concept of Islam is preached around the world. The Shias sort of would like to do the same but don't have the money, organisation and people to do so. Also the IRGC is more interested in criminal self gain.
The same paragraph could be written (though less global in nature) about the SBC/ fundamentalist evangelicals in the US.

In the context of Canadian politics, both represent fringe positions on social issues.
 
Yet remarkably without bombings or beheadings.
Colin's post didn't say anything about terrorism, it spoke of religious leadership calling for, fundraising for, and organizing for imposing their doctrine on society at large.
 
Colin's post didn't say anything about terrorism, it spoke of religious leadership calling for, fundraising for, and organizing for imposing their doctrine on society at large.
No it didn’t. But since uou were the one who posted the ‘parallel’ to Evangelist Christians, I figured I’d butt in to make a point.
 
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