Boatswain (BOSN)

[Vimy_gunner]

Occam - Seriously, hes probably a kid that is looking to join the Navy, lord know we need them so why not reach out and give less sarcastic answers. Here watch:

"Also curious what it's like when you arrive at a port in say Somalia. Are you granted leave away from the ship to play tourist for any of your time while on deployment?  If so, how does that work? "

Generally from my 9 years at sea I have found the average port visit to be about 3-4 days in length. As well generally during that 3-4 days you will have 1 day in which you are part of the "foreign Port Duty Watch". So for that 24 hour period you are required to stay aboard the ship and the preform the duties laid down to you by the Cox'n or Duty Cox'n. For the days you are not required to be on duty you may generally come and go from the ship as you please, making sure you peg out (We have a peg board that denotes if one is on board or ashore) and that you are on board again but the stated time, usually 6-7am.

Having said this, on my last ship (HMCS Toronto 06-09) we were able to stay over night in a hotel or some other residence as long as you contacted the ship and/or filled out a form that would enable the ship to contact you should the need arise.

_____

"If you're in the middle of the Baltic sea and it's freezing outside, are the ships living quarters kept warm for the crew or are you sleeping in your parka?"

Yes the mess decks are heated and air conditioned of course depending on the climate you happen to be in at that moment. From my personal experience I found that an extra blanket was always good to have as living with 21 people all with different temperature likes can lead to allot of up and down temps.

____

"Are all ships equipped with basketball courts or just the big ones that are on the recruiting video, lol."

Well I have sailed on HMC Ships Preserver (x2) St Johns (x2) Ville De Quebec and Toronto. None of those ships has a basket ball court on board, which leaves me to be quite certain that none of our ships come equipped with a basket ball court. I do seem to remember Preserver having one of those move able basketball nets secured in the hanger some where though, I could be wrong too though.

As for other PT equipment all ships (HFX, 280 and Pre class) have some sort of gear spread out through the ship in most cases.
___

Hope this helps. I cannot speak on the watch system or the Bos'n trade, as I am a Naval Storesman, but I will say Bos'n looks like a fun job from the outside and that the Navy is a great life and I hope you enjoy it as much as I have!

Thank-you for taking the time to answer my post thoughtfully Sir. It's nice to know that some members of the forces are keeping to the ideal behind what the CAF calls a family atmosphere. You probably answered my questions in the same time frame it took Mr. Occam to come up with his sarcastic remarks. If you need to make insulting comments to someone else to enjoy your life, then there's something wrong.

Again, thank-you for your answers and stay safe out there.

 

[aesop081]

If you need to make insulting comments to someone else to enjoy your life, then there's something wrong.

On the same note, are you done beating a dead horse to make yourself feel superior ?

 

[Occam]

If I were to psychologicaly analyze the tone of your response I might discover that you're suffering from some serious narcissistic personality traits combined with a load of cynicism and are generally unhappy with your own working life. Classic symptoms.

You can read all that from a post on the internet?  Wow, I'm impressed.  :

You need to find a sense of humour, and a good search engine.

Were I unhappy with my own working life, I'd have retired years ago with a CF pension.

Just when I was thinking the Navy is filled with good guys, one bad apple comes along.

The Navy has quite a few good guys.  However, I think you missed the fact that I'm not Navy anymore.

The Navy sells the civ on many of the things you were complaining about as being the reason why sailors leave the trade. Perhaps it's the dishonest advertisements that give those signing up the wrong idea about those Navy perks.

I've yet to see a Navy recruiting ad featuring onboard basketball courts, runs ashore in foreign ports, or internet in the mess decks.  Are you sure you didn't get those from an unreliable source?

Again...the answers you seek have already been answered elsewhere in the forums.  Don't be lazy and expect us to do your research.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sorry Halifax Tar, in all my years in the Navy I never had a port visit in a random foreign port: Under our talented navigators, we always ended up at the very port we planned to visit.

(This facetious comment brought to you courtesy of my  "War on the Abuse of the Word Random by Younger Gen." )

Evolve or get out of the way old salt 

 

[jollyjacktar]

Halifax Tar, I think it was good of you to give the kid some answers as best you could without the  "humour" some choose to use.  I agree we could use some new sailors and they should be encouraged not the other way.  They will see enough of that from some quarters when they come fresh off the street.  I guess I am getting mellow and in short supply of "humour" in my old age.

 

[Occam]

Halifax Tar, I think it was good of you to give the kid some answers as best you could without the  "humour" some choose to use.  I agree we could use some new sailors and they should be encouraged not the other way.  They will see enough of that from some quarters when they come fresh off the street.  I guess I am getting mellow and in short supply of "humour" in my old age.

I answered more questions than Halifax Tar did.  Are you saying I should have just played along with even the patently absurd questions like the basketball court one?

I think I know what part of the problem with the Navy is these days:  We used to have thicker skins. 

Spoon feeding these kids isn't doing them any favours.  All the questions he asked could have been answered with a simple search.  I answered some of them, and had fun with the strange ones.  He should have gotten a simple "Do a search!".

 

[jollyjacktar]

You know, I was young once too.  I asked all sorts of dumb ass questions, still do at times.  Nobody's perfect.  But I see here on these forums many an occasion where a green apple steps on his thing, or perhaps does not use the Queen's English correctly.... then it seems as if a dog pile happens from several different directions.  Replies, to do a search, correct his syntax etc etc.  Why not take the time to be a mentor, it might be easier to be glib, cutting or as I have seen here at times bloody rude.  But honestly, it does not take much more effort to be the better man/woman and be a mentor or at least understanding to a degree. 

I usually use the PM route for trying to answer some of these kid's questions to the best of my ability.  Some of them have come back quite a number of times with further questions.  Each to their own, I am thick enough skinned and for those who know me thick enough too.  Yeah, we used to be saltier.  Some of the old ones had tons of "humour" too when dealing with junior personnel, but honestly those Dinosaurs are getting few and far between nowadays.  And frankly, I don't miss those I knew over the years one tiny bit.

 

[Occam]

Why not take the time to be a mentor, it might be easier to be glib, cutting or as I have seen here at times bloody rude.  But honestly, it does not take much more effort to be the better man/woman and be a mentor or at least understanding to a degree.

Take a look at my 1000-odd posts, and then come back and tell me into which category I belong.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

 

[hold_fast]

I consider myself to be a young lad interested in a career with the navy. I have asked many of the same questions that he did - I merely asked them to a search engine instead.

I was a moron at 18 when I was first planning on joining - as a BOSN, no less! I can understand some of the recruiting videos being a bit misleading - I distinctly remember one video that showed a ship with a vending machine for beer. I asked that question here to get more info.

And what was the answer? I don't remember! Why? Because I quickly realized how insignificant it was. I started researching more on naval history and cartography, and less on when I could fit in a workout. I mean, I understand that those benefits are part of recruiting. But I also think it's ridiculous to dumb down or alleviate concerns over what the military does. People need to take recruiting videos with a grain of salt - whether that is military recruiting or recruiting for any job in any industry or with any company. It's marketing. Maybe there legitimately is a basketball hoop hung up somewhere that looks legitimate and, when shot at the right angle, makes the entire hangar look like a basketball court.

As for thick skin? I strongly advocate it. Not just for the military, but for life. His questions warranted a bit of wit, and that is what they got. The best answer for every single one of his questions was for him to use the search engine, and that was the answer Occam gave him (in addition to many straightforward and helpful answers).

It's the ****ing navy. I don't want my life to depend on someone who gets upset when he gets a bit of wit his way. I'd rather have a team of men and women with a pair of gonads (figuratively speaking) and a brain to match (i.e. have researched Somalia before they make a reference to it).

Maybe I'm being too harsh in comparison to what has been said prior, but I wouldn't have if the guy didn't spend two posts whining about his hurt feelings.

You can't expect people to sit at home on their computers and constantly answer the same questions over and over again. Asking a possible recruit to use the search engine first is not only intelligent for him (making him acknowledge the resource that will help him not only now, but in the future) but also for the individuals already in the CF who don't have the time to type up post after post on what sleeping on a navy ship is like. Occam has been extremely helpful in many threads that I've perused in my research and that cut at him about not being a mentor made me puke in my mouth a little.

Mind you, all of the above opinions come from someone who has yet to be in the military - who hasn't even made it through basic training yet. As such, take it for what it's worth -  :2c:.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I answered more questions than Halifax Tar did.  Are you saying I should have just played along with even the patently absurd questions like the basketball court one?

I think I know what part of the problem with the Navy is these days:  We used to have thicker skins.

Spoon feeding these kids isn't doing them any favours.  All the questions he asked could have been answered with a simple search.  I answered some of them, and had fun with the strange ones.  He should have gotten a simple "Do a search!".

You know I do see your points Occam, but I recall a flag officer talking to a group of us about recruiting and retention issues. His basic concept was that we are all the best recruiters the military has, as current serving members. Now if every time a tadpole slithered into a recruiting center, asked questions and was subsequently told to search the video cabinet to check it out for him or her self, how many people would go much beyond just that ? I know I wouldn't have.

My point is that you get more with sugar than vinegar so when a prospective person shows interest sarcastic and snide remarks are not helpful or productive. You know moms old adage "if you don't have something good to say don't say anything at all".

As for this talk about "thick skin" in the Navy/Military give it a break, being sarcastic, snide and counter productive has absolutely nothing to do with ones moral and person fortitude (I.E."Thick Skin").

 

[Halifax Tar]

You can't expect people to sit at home on their computers and constantly answer the same questions over and over again.

You should tell that to the people at the CFRCs. I bet dollars to doughnuts that they get the same 10-15 questions constantly. It requires patience and strong pot of coffee i would assume.

Why not create a sticky in the Naval Trades group about shipboard life and what to expect in the navy. This may help!

Good luck joining the Navy Hold Fast, just remember not everyone is all gonads and chest beating! You will calm over time as you do long watches of staring off into bleak nothingness and gazing at downtown Halifax, on a beautiful sunny Friday evening, while your on duty wishing you could be downtown.

I am interested to know exactly what kind of missions or roles you see yourself involved in once you join the Navy... I guess I mean what do you expect to be doing ?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Take a look at my 1000-odd posts, and then come back and tell me into which category I belong.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

My comments on dealing with less than appreciated questions/statements were not directed at you and you alone.  For all the times you have indeed been a mentor, I applaud you.  Keep it up.  There are enough miserable folks out there and at times in here already.  I'll cease comment now too.

 

[Occam]

You know I do see your points Occam, but I recall a flag officer talking to a group of us about recruiting and retention issues. His basic concept was that we are all the best recruiters the military has, as current serving members. Now if every time a tadpole slithered into a recruiting center, asked questions and was subsequently told to search the video cabinet to check it out for him or her self, how many people would go much beyond just that ? I know I wouldn't have.

My point is that you get more with sugar than vinegar so when a prospective person shows interest sarcastic and snide remarks are not helpful or productive. You know moms old adage "if you don't have something good to say don't say anything at all".

As for this talk about "thick skin" in the Navy/Military give it a break, being sarcastic, snide and counter productive has absolutely nothing to do with ones moral and person fortitude (I.E."Thick Skin").

I was completely prepared to walk away from this thread, but unfortunately I have to say something about this.  Perhaps a kind mod will split this off and create a separate, useful thread dealing with thick skin and life.

That saying about us being the best recruiters the military has has been around since long before we were in uniform.  I agree with the sentiment, but it has nothing to do with the point at hand.

Your scenario regarding a young'un walking into a RC is an appropriate one.  I did the very thing you describe; that is, walked into a recruiting centre, did the CFAT, medical and interview, and picked a trade all on my own.  I didn't get the luxury of asking a thousand nagging questions about what the trade was going to be like, what my bunk was going to be like, and what the foreign ports were going to be like.  Hell, they didn't even bother to tell me that I had to join a feeder trade first, and wouldn't see my actual trade for 5 years.  I think I got a one-sheet handout on what all the trades did, and I picked one from that.  Aside from a few years as a sea puppy, I entered the Navy, and the CF, sight unseen.  Most of the guys who showed up at Cornwallis with me were in the same boat - none of us knew anything about feeder trades, YTEP, and other neat concepts, but you know what?  We learned.

Some of the folks that are walking into recruiting centres these days should be given an "about turn".  It's all about instant gratification.  I want my answers now, I want no surprises, I want to know every single thing that's on the test before I take it, I want to know what my entitlements are before I volunteer for anything.  It's shocking, to be honest.  When I was an instructor, my students would always put out the feelers for what type of faults I would be putting on the equipment to test them.  They didn't get a friggin' thing from me, because then I'd have been cheating them of the experience.  I must've done a fair job, as most of the students I taught who are still around are all PO2 and above now, with a good number as Chiefs.  Unfortunately, because of a lack of backbone, the Navy also allowed students who should not have reached that rank level to be advanced.  I still have recollection of a student who failed a phase repeatedly, and it was ordered that he be passed anyways.  All part of the "thin-skinning" of the Navy.  It taught those who worked hard that they didn't need to because they'd be taken care of anyways, regardless of how much they were a screwup.

Those who taught me along the way, also taught me that there is a place for the tastefully-placed snide remark or sarcastic reply.  It tells the recipient to suck back, reload, and think before engaging mouth (or keyboard).  Maybe even do a bit of reading to find an answer that I could've found myself.

You could sticky a bunch of stuff in the Naval forums, but it wouldn't change anything.  It won't change the fact that a large number (but not all) people are coming here looking for instant gratification, and can't be bothered to read a bunch of threads to find the answers they're looking for.  Were I considering a career in the Navy today, I'd have perused just about every thread in the Naval forums.  Total cost: 1 mouse button.  But that's me...the guy who's still around in the uniform 26 plus years later, not the guy who bails after a three-year BE (or sooner!).

Alas, this problem is not isolated to just the Navy, unfortunately.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Evolve or get out of the way old salt 

I am trying ... but just don't get the lingo.

To make matters worse, I have more than 30 years naval training working against me. Always remember:

"Air Forces are 100 years of progress unimpeded by tradition, while Navies are 1000 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!"

;D  ;D  ;D

 

[Halifax Tar]

Occam,

I fail to see how asking questions about a prospective career choice makes someone part of this generational epidemic, as you would have us believe, of "instant gratification". In fact I can argue the opposite. The person in question is making a big choice in their life and should weight it thoroughly. Part of that process is asking questions, no matter how invalid you (Occam) think they are. I think it shows sound judgment and the ability to analyze a situation or possible situation before getting in over your head. 

As for your students wanting test questions well that is not what this person did. You cant fault the originator because 20 years ago in CFNES some OD asked you what was on the QL3 Stoker exam.

How often do people ask you questions about your job/trade ? I bet it happens all the time by civis and fellow military members. I know, right now, out here in Panjaway disct I get asked all the time about life in the Navy, and sometimes I get the same questions over and over and over again *gasp*. It doesn't bother me, the people asking are interested or seem interested and perhaps they are thinking about OTing to a Naval trade, so I answer honestly and frankly not hiding the bad from the good, but that's just me and how I handle myself.

As for your personal life story and your experience with your recruiting process, well congrats. You did it all on your own no questions, ifs, ands or buts, good for you. Some people are not like that Occam, perhaps hes unsure if the military is for him. It would sound to me that you new you wanted to be in the  military from the get go or that you just didn't care what you did when you got in, again good for you your enrollment was easy peasy not everyone is like that.

The military is a living breathing organization that constantly needs to stay relevant and recognize that the people we recruited in the 70s and 80s are not the same as today. I would argue that the average recruits level of actual intellect is much higher now than it has ever been, you don't see many grade 10 grads anymore, and thank god! These people are smart and they don't want to be duped into something like we used to do to people. I would be horrified if my son or daughter walked whimsically into a CFRC and joined as fast as you did and without thought of the consequences.

As I told oldgateboatdriver evolve or get out of the way my friend, and I do mean that with the kindest sincerity.

Perhaps this does deserve a thread of its own...But maybe I should do a search first eh and see if its been touched already wouldn't want to piss people off now... :

Back to Bos'n talk... Anyone have any Bananas ? lol

 

[Halifax Tar]

"Air Forces are 100 years of progress unimpeded by tradition, while Navies are 1000 years of tradition unimpeded by progress!"

I have never heard it put that way but I love it, That should be on a t-shirt!

 

[jollyjacktar]

Good Luck with it Mac.  I have many Bos'ns as friends.  Great bunch of critters.  You'll enjoy it.

 

[davidsonr_91]

Interested in doing an OT to boatswain, how full or low is the trade? How long does it take to do the 3's and how long does it take after your 3's do you go on your 5's?  How many times a year do they run 3's?  Is it a structured class type 3's or is it mostly OJT?  Any info on this would be awesome and a pm would be cool to. 

 

[matt4545]

A quick trip to the recruiting website will answer most of your questions. As for how full it is, only the recruiters will know or your BPSO.

 

[davidsonr_91]

Thanks for the company answer there chief I'm looking for more detailed answers than the recruiting website is willing to give but thanks for coming out.lol