BMQ / BMOQ - Personal Electronics during course [MERGED]

[SentryMAn]

You can imagine how my Basic was being the only Air reservist on it and my staff was all Combat arms.

We had 4 guys have long term relationships break up while they were on course, cellulars would not have helped.  I had my own issues with home life too, it puts a stress on you but as the saying goes "If it doesn't kill you it can only make you stronger".  Which I feel I am a much stronger person post then pre basic.  I just wish I hadn't released.

I suppose we can argue for/against and in each there will be lots of examples of how someone stayed in either way and became a great soldier.

I still REALLY think that there should be a mandatory class at the High School level on proper etiquette for Cellular Phone and computer use.

 

[OldSolduer]

I still REALLY think that there should be a mandatory class at the High School level on proper etiquette for Cellular Phone and computer use.

Not required. Lets make sure they can Read, Write and perform basic Math functions like adding, subtracting and all that boring stuff. A bit of History wouldn't hurt either.

 

[frank1515]

Not required. Lets make sure they can Read, Write and perform basic Math functions like adding, subtracting and all that boring stuff. A bit of History wouldn't hurt either.

Agreed with Mr. Seggie (unless he's being sarcastic...) Teaching proper etiquette, manners and common sense is the job of parents, not teachers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

People tend to abuse the "I have family issues I need my cell phone on me at all times" a lot.  I've often found it's just a lie to let the member keep their cell on and on them.

 

[OldSolduer]

People tend to abuse the "I have family issues I need my cell phone on me at all times" a lot.  I've often found it's just a lie to let the member keep their cell on and on them.

Then anyone who plays this card needs to be interviewed by their section commander, their Pl WO, the Pl Comd, the CSM and the OC - culminating in an interview with the padre after investigation of "Family issues". If the investigation uncovers the "lie" then the offending person can - and should be - charged.

Agreed with Mr. Seggie (unless he's being sarcastic...) Teaching proper etiquette, manners and common sense is the job of parents, not teachers.

Not being sarcastic. School has enouhg enough to do without the extra burden of teaching  numpties how to be courteus.

Our students in Manitoba damn near bottomed out on standard tests - which tells me we have - or more correctly dunces administrating the school system.

 

[medicineman]

FMP and the carbon paper (which doubled as field expedient cam) is far better than e-mailing. You don't read half teh e-mails that are sent cause everyone is sending them for everything, like birthday announcements and cr@p like that.

FMP had advantage of face to face comms -  much better than e-mails.

I seem to remember doing all my adreps in the field by that method for years...still have a few of them lying around in my FMP from Haiti IIRC.  And I don't remember how many times someone in the same office as me sent me an e-mail for something that really demanded them looking at me and saying "Hey MM ...  :blah:" or wandering that 50ft down the hall or even just picking up the phone and saying "I'm coming over, or please come here or just meet me out in the smoke pit in 5".  I guess face to face comms these days is Skype or other equivalent, even for someone in the same cubicle cell  :.

:2c:

MM

 

[George Wallace]

This one is funny to me, because now a days you can have a detailed face to face conversation with someone, and the end of the conversation is usually the same everytime.

Either "I'll send you an e-mail", or "you send me an e-mail", once again detailing the conversation you just had.  GAAAAAWWDDDD!!!!!!

email is the "new" carbon paper.

 

[George Wallace]

Agreed with Mr. Seggie (unless he's being sarcastic...) Teaching proper etiquette, manners and common sense is the job of parents, not teachers.

Some people just can't live without someone to talk to all the time.  I often wonder why anyone would go to a movie if all they are going to do in the theatre is sit and chat or text on their cell phone.  Yes, many people have to learn proper etiquette.  Many more really should learn that they do not have to be in constant communications with someone else at all times, in all places.  When Bluetooth first arrived, I was under the impression that the Lunie Bin had released all their inmates and they were now walking around the grocery aisles muttering to themselves.  Crap!  People can't even go shopping without talking on a cell phone.

If some Trooper were to sit in my OP and chat/text on a Cell Phone instead of silently observing, they would be charged......In the Turkish Army, they would likely be shot.

 

[Swingline1984]

...and a group of quality recruits still was produced.

That is subjective.  Some of my worst soldiers often speak of their "quality", being unable to see (or accept) their own shortcomings.  No one is saying the troops themselves are junk (although some may be, and time will tell), only that their potential is not tapped or tested until later down the stream because of concessions like these.  If we don't measure these individuals limitations in basic how can we expect them to perform in the real world?  This (in my mind) is bigger than just cell phones to call home or ND's being treated as something that just happens to everyone.  How many times do I need to run over my wife with the car before someone decides that my drivers training was insufficient?  I would by no means ever hold myself up as the example of perfection, but, I would expect that the soldiers I get on my end at the very least have a basic respect for the CoC, don't question orders and can polish their boots.  If they question everything, hold the leadership in contempt, and can't be bothered to turn up in the morning looking presentable that downloads a lot of responsibility to me and my subordinate leaders to deal with; issues that should have been slapped out of them in basic training.  No the sky is not falling but everyday feels more and more like this:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103733.0.html

 

[HItorMiss]

We were a bunch of brand new people.  Work still got done, we still bonded as a team, and a group of quality recruits still was produced.

Your opinion and that of your instructors vary....

When they say teamwork and overall standard suffered I'll take their word over you the former recruits word in an heartbeat.

 

[SentryMAn]

That is subjective.  Some of my worst soldiers often speak of their "quality", being unable to see (or accept) their own shortcomings.  No one is saying the troops themselves are junk (although some may be, and time will tell), only that their potential is not tapped or tested until later down the stream because of concessions like these.  If we don't measure these individuals limitations in basic how can we expect them to perform in the real world?  This (in my mind) is bigger than just cell phones to call home or ND's being treated as something that just happens to everyone.  How many times do I need to run over my wife with the car before someone decides that my drivers training was insufficient?  I would by no means ever hold myself up as the example of perfection, but, I would expect that the soldiers I get on my end at the very least have a basic respect for the CoC, don't question orders and can polish their boots.  If they question everything, hold the leadership in contempt, and can't be bothered to turn up in the morning looking presentable that downloads a lot of responsibility to me and my subordinate leaders to deal with; issues that should have been slapped out of them in basic training.  No the sky is not falling but everyday feels more and more like this:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103733.0.html

THANK YOU for that great laugh from the video!

 

[HItorMiss]

Stacked

Let me be clear, you believe you are a quality product, I do not dispute you might be. What I question is how much better you and your Platoon mates could have been. Your own Instructors told the CO the "standard" suffered that is the issue I have.

 

[Precept]

Stacked

Let me be clear, you believe you are a quality product, I do not dispute you might be. What I question is how much better you and your Platoon mates could have been. Your own Instructors told the CO the "standard" suffered that is the issue I have.

What's the difference, he wouldn't have lived up to my standard anyway. Am I right, or am I right!?

(Stacked, glad to see you made it through the Mega in one piece. Even if you did have a Hollywood Platoon who got to play with their toys all day long. Enjoy Kingston, hopefully it's more entertaining than Borden and Petawawa!)

 

[jasonf6]

What's the difference, he wouldn't have lived up to my standard anyway. Am I right, or am I right!?

(Stacked, glad to see you made it through the Mega in one piece. Even if you did have a Hollywood Platoon who got to play with their toys all day long. Enjoy Kingston, hopefully it's more entertaining than Borden and Petawawa!)

Hey!  What's wrong with Petawawa?

 

[SentryMAn]

Hey!  What's wrong with Petawawa?

That question would be better asked as "What's Right with Petawaw?"

LOL

 

[estoguy]

Not required. Lets make sure they can Read, Write and perform basic Math functions like adding, subtracting and all that boring stuff. A bit of History wouldn't hurt either.

I agree with Mr. Seggie.  I'm a supply teacher at the moment, and a lot of "basic" stuff has been ignored, and now we are reaping that.  And more than a bit of history... might get me some more work!   

A lot of admin are very weak-kneed people.  They can't even deal with issues at the school level and have to turn to the board for stupid things like comments made in a classroom by a teacher.  FFS... if you can't deal with that on your own, how on earth do they deal with mouthy kids?  The answer is they really don't.  They talk to little Johnny or Mary and tut-tut them, and that's pretty much it.  Gone are the days where kids had a healthy amount of respect (and maybe even a little fear) of those in charge.

Any definitive word as to how these rules are changing things yet?  Do the instructors like/dislike it?

 

[SentryMAn]

I agree with Mr. Seggie.  I'm a supply teacher at the moment, and a lot of "basic" stuff has been ignored, and now we are reaping that.  And more than a bit of history... might get me some more work!   

A lot of admin are very weak-kneed people.  They can't even deal with issues at the school level and have to turn to the board for stupid things like comments made in a classroom by a teacher.  FFS... if you can't deal with that on your own, how on earth do they deal with mouthy kids?  The answer is they really don't.  They talk to little Johnny or Mary and tut-tut them, and that's pretty much it.  Gone are the days where kids had a healthy amount of respect (and maybe even a little fear) of those in charge.

You're into a whole other can of worms with this, and I'll just leave it like this, it all starts at home, teach your kids respect by SHOWING them respect and chances are they will in reality as well.

My Mother was a Teacher for 33 years and saw the changes from being able to teach her way to the new "no one loses" and saw the grades and aptitude drop off significantly.

 

[armyvern]

That's fine. You're entitled to that.

Sure he is.

I'll tend to side with the instructors themsleves who actually have prior standards knowledge visibility and experience from one group to another to make their comparisons.

It's all too easy to believe that one's personal group was fine because there's an inherent bias there.

When one has instructed both groups (the haves and the have nots) and can see the difference between the two ... they have more credibility in my books.

 

[Journeyman]

Sure he is.

I'd agree with ArmyVern.......except that I avoid the Recruiting threads; reading them diminishes my hopes for the military's -- and Canadian society's -- future.

 

[m.k]

I start at CFLRS on Jan 30th and I believe that this policy change will affect performance and standards in an indirect manner. I do not believe there will be many candidates so pre-occupied with the outside world and social networking that they will shirk duties and spend an inappropriate amount of time on their devices, however I do believe that the ability to access electronics during the indoc period and weekdays in the remaining weeks will prevent candidates from truly focusing, 100% on the course material. As someone stated above, one second or one minute spent thinking about this picture or that facebook status or this text message from a girlfriend/boyfriend/husband/wife/friend/sister/brother/mistress/mother/father/anyone is less time spent thinking about the course.

I thought the whole point of basic training (among other things) was to be cut off from the outside world?