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Blood Type Tattoo

edgar

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I keep seeing people with their blood type on their kit, and even tattooed on their skin. But my wife (MCpl Medic back in the 90's) told me that anybody who has whole blood to put in you, BMS or whatever will, without exception, blood type you before they transfuse. Anybody who does not have the ability to blood type you only carries plasma anyway. Have we been wasting a whole lot of jiffy marker?
 
It makes sense. Especially if you are injured and need medivac. At least they can call back, from the incident, with the info, and at least have something ready when you get there. If it's going to help save my, or someone else's, life, the time and marker to do it is immaterial. Besides, they tell me to mark it down, I mark it down. Decisions such as this are made for a reason and by people higher than me.
 
Waste of marker.

Its on your dog tags. If you want more, velcro tag on you cbt sleeve or gear works as we can take that off and attach it to whatever goes on its way to the hosp.

If you are going to write it in marker on anywhere, put it on your skin...as all your kit and clothing tends to disappear by the time you arrive where they hold the blood.
 
Depends - some medics/medical people in some units are carrying whole blood - as its a lot better for carrying oxygen than plasma.

  As well during a MCI it can streamline the process.



*Kevin is not advocating giving unk's blood without typing them - but inside a small unit, or during a large crisis...
 
recceguy said:
If it's going to help save my, or someone else's, life, the time and marker to do it is immaterial. Besides, they tell me to mark it down, I mark it down. Decisions such as this are made for a reason and by people higher than me.

That's the point. It makes no difference to anyone's life, and saves exactly 0 (zero) time. The people telling you to write your blood type on your kit made that decision in error and as high as they may be, they are not qualified to make it. They just don't know anything about transfusions, blood typing, who does it and when.
Unless that word comes down through the MO, in which case the answer to my original post may be "False, the field hospital does not type people, they do read dogtags and various belt pouches, and we have not been wasting jiffy marker".

Call back from the incident with info? Why would a guy with blood typing kit do that? Is any self respecting doctor going to trust some random accident scene person, maybe reading info off some webbing he found nearby or worse, a field dressing wrapper?

And finally, since jiffy markers come from the Canex out of pocket, it has no net effect on the defence budget.

Not trying to take the piss here, I'd probably just take your word if we were talking about recce stuff.

Edit: and when I get back in, and some MCpl at the battle school tells me to write my blood type on my field dressing, you can bet I'm going to tell him that would be a stupid waste of time. Or maybe not.



 
Infidel-6 said:
Depends - some medics/medical people in some units are carrying whole blood - as its a lot better for carrying oxygen than plasma.

  As well during a MCI it can streamline the process.



*Kevin is not advocating giving unk's blood without typing them - but inside a small unit, or during a large crisis...

Exactly. Is blood typing easy like a pregnancy test? Just dip and by the time you got the needle in you got an answer? If my missuss was here I could tell you right away. I bet blood typing testers are issued with the bag of whole blood.
 
I don't know what the heartache is. It cost no time, and relatively little money, if you want to count your precious markers. If it helps the soldier feel confident and comfortable, that in itself is a good enough reason.

This is starting to sound like people with nothing better to do, turning a non issue into a crisis, in order to further their little fiefdom (read empire builders), ego and influence.

I've already wasted more time on this than it's worth.

Off to remark my kit now :salute:
 
recceguy said:
I don't know what the heartache is. It cost no time, and relatively little money, if you want to count your precious markers. If it helps the soldier feel confident and comfortable, that in itself is a good enough reason.

This is starting to sound like people with nothing better to do, turning a non issue into a crisis, in order to further their little fiefdom (read empire builders), ego and influence.

I've already wasted more time on this than it's worth.

Off to remark my kit now :salute:

Yeah the fumes from those markers are some harsh eh? You might want to open a window.
 
Doesn't make alot of difference what your blood group is - blood will be grouped and crossmatched as required and if there isn't time, O Negative is given if whole blood is needed.  The little bit of time required is to make sure the life that's saved stays saved. 
MM
 
edgar said:
Yeah the fumes from those markers are some harsh eh? You might want to open a window.

The altered state helps me partially understand some of the goofier, time consuming posts we get here, and at least prompts me to try and answer them. Fresh air just helps me recover and rebuke myself for losing another twenty minutes of my life on nothing of consequence.

That's better, back to reality. Excuse my while I close the window and move on to something useful..
 
medicineman said:
Doesn't make alot of difference what your blood group is - blood will be grouped and crossmatched as required and if there isn't time, O Negative is given if whole blood is needed.  The little bit of time required is to make sure the life that's saved stays saved. 
MM

Seen. I forgot O negative is the "universal donor". So if a medic deploys with whole blood it's O-?
The way I think, I wouldn't take anything else, as a failsafe, that way if I fuck up I can't possibly give the wrong blood and cause the bad reaction.
(I expect to fuck up, that way I can't possibly be dissappointed)
 
I wouldn’t recommend getting it under your left arm

http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2030I
 
Just remember, whatever your decision is - it does not wash off, Ha!

I have seen the blood type tatts done quite stylish.

I do have tatts, but not this type.

I have also seen others with felt marker write it on their arms, prior to going out on a mission. We all carried casualty cards in our pockets pre filled out with the essentials. Others had their blood group on velcro attached patches on their body armour, but this was frowned on by our command for some reason.


Cheers,

Wes
 
Blood type on ID disks and tattoo makes for an interesting discussion, particularly when it turns to the reason for having it there.  Even the ones who make use of it (professionally) forget the reason why it was originally done.  The following refers to the US Army but it probably applies to most any military.

MILITARY TRANSFUSION PRACTICE This pdf link is an interesting read for those seeking some info about military blood transfusion from both a (semi-)contemporary and historical perspective.
Determination of blood groups for identification tags (ie, dog tags) is not done in medical laboratories, and here may be a 3% to 6% error rate in either the ABO or the Rh blood groups, although a recent study indicates that the risk may be lower. During World War II, however, when blood had to be given in emergencies in forward hospitals and tests for compatibility were impractical, the blood group of the recipient had to be accepted on the basis of his identification tag, in which the known error was from 5 to 25 percent.

Previously, these percentages of error had been acknowledged in the context that dog tags were designed only to identify potential donors and were not designed to be used for transfusions on individual patients.

However, even contemporary medical officers who are unfamiliar with this philosophy may assume that identity tags are provided to guide transfusions without confirmatory testing, as World War II–era medical officers did:

Circular Letter No. 170, Office of The Surgeon General, War Department, Services of Supply. In this letter [dated 2 December 1942], it was pointed out that the policy of blood grouping of military personnel and its purpose seems to have been misunderstood by some medical officers.... [T]he assumption that the first [dog tag or identification tag] typing test would be the only one performed was based on a false premise. To correct the misconception it was pointed out again that the purpose of the program was to simplify assembling donors whose blood would probably crossmatch with that of intended recipients.
 
First, I have no experience with how CF members determine their blood type for ID tags but I can tell you a few things about the Civvie world.
First, no-one in an emergent setting uses whole blood anymore as there are more risks of reactions when using blood that has not been separated into it's usable components. Whole blood is only ever used in autologous blood donation as in you donate your own blood for your own use prior to having a scheduled surgery.
In emergency use the most commonly used blood product is PRBC or packed red blood cells, this is whole blood that has had most of the fluid and plasma and leukocytes removed and is basically just red blood cells. Is used to treat significant hemmorhage as it replaces oxygen carrying capability. As a side not, one unit of PRBC (about 350ml, raises the Hemoglobin by about 10).
The other products used are FFP, Fresh Frozen Plasma, which has to be thawed before use and contains all the normal clotting factors. Is used in the setting of a significant transfusion being required and/or ongoing hemmorhage such as a Gastro-intestinal or intra-cranial bleed. Platelets can also be administered separately after FFP to help with restoring normal blood clotting. Very important in trauma and surgery.
Ideally all blood is typed (ABO & Rh) and crossmached. Crossmaching takes an hour and involves mixing samples of the donor blood and recipient blood to check for reactions. ABO/Rh typing can be done within a few minutes, 15 IIRC.
On occasion I have waited for type specific blood and sometimes the hospitals have already typed and crossed units before we get there, but most emergency transfusions are of O blood. The Rh factor is only really important in the case of subsequent transfusions or in women of child-bearing age who may go on to have children. If they get Rh +ve blood and are Rh -ve they can have a reaction that can kill a fetus if not treated. So men and elderly women get O Neg or O Pos, all other women we give O Neg if we don't have type specific or crossmatched. Just have limited supplies of all blood and don't wnat to use O Neg when you don't have to.
I don't think I would ever trust tags or tatts when transfusing blood and agree it is likely most helpful for identifying donors.
Just my 2 cents and sorry if it got off topic.
 
This is a fascinating discussion.

How did somebody determine that my blood group was ORhPos and how did that get on my dog tags? I have no durn idea, other than that when I enlisted the medics took gobs of blood. Betting that the Royal Canadan Medical Corps then did not draw a blood group out of a hat, or arbitrarily grab a set of identity discs with the blood group already stamped on, it seems to me that the medics proved info to whoever the heck made these things and the rest, as they say, is history.
 
Medic65726 said:
First, I have no experience with how CF members determine their blood type for ID tags but I can tell you a few things about the Civvie world.
First, no-one in an emergent setting uses whole blood anymore as there are more risks of reactions when using blood that has not been separated into it's usable components. Whole blood is only ever used in autologous blood donation as in you donate your own blood for your own use prior to having a scheduled surgery.
In emergency use the most commonly used blood product is PRBC or packed red blood cells, this is whole blood that has had most of the fluid and plasma and leukocytes removed and is basically just red blood cells. Is used to treat significant hemmorhage as it replaces oxygen carrying capability. As a side not, one unit of PRBC (about 350ml, raises the Hemoglobin by about 10).
The other products used are FFP, Fresh Frozen Plasma, which has to be thawed before use and contains all the normal clotting factors. Is used in the setting of a significant transfusion being required and/or ongoing hemmorhage such as a Gastro-intestinal or intra-cranial bleed. Platelets can also be administered separately after FFP to help with restoring normal blood clotting. Very important in trauma and surgery.
Ideally all blood is typed (ABO & Rh) and crossmached. Crossmaching takes an hour and involves mixing samples of the donor blood and recipient blood to check for reactions. ABO/Rh typing can be done within a few minutes, 15 IIRC.
On occasion I have waited for type specific blood and sometimes the hospitals have already typed and crossed units before we get there, but most emergency transfusions are of O blood. The Rh factor is only really important in the case of subsequent transfusions or in women of child-bearing age who may go on to have children. If they get Rh +ve blood and are Rh -ve they can have a reaction that can kill a fetus if not treated. So men and elderly women get O Neg or O Pos, all other women we give O Neg if we don't have type specific or crossmatched. Just have limited supplies of all blood and don't wnat to use O Neg when you don't have to.
I don't think I would ever trust tags or tatts when transfusing blood and agree it is likely most helpful for identifying donors.
Just my 2 cents and sorry if it got off topic.
Actually, that was bang on.
 
First, no-one in an emergent setting uses whole blood anymore
We'll see if this holds true in the future, as once again conflict and treating battlefield injuries brings sober second thought to old "norms" in emergency care. You don't have to look far ( read the article in the thread "Doctors gory tale angers... etc" in this forum for instance), to find how military medicine is falling in love all over again with whole blood transfusing. I have heard/ read doctors gushing all over themselves about the resusitative benefits of whole blood vs PRBC. Maybe Civil practice will find it impractical to use, but I'm sure it will raise some interest and consideration
 
Good point. It is unfortunate but true that many major advances in medicine have come as a result of armed conflict. Rather Ironic from a Hippocratic standpoint, but it provides a large number of injured, but previously healthy subjects and as such makes for great research/study material.
 
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