Beware the regimental "anniversary beer/wine"

[kratz]

+1.

They must have solved all the major problems at HQ.  You definitely don't want to read NAVGEN 022/13, which is deserving of its own thread, but I'm not posting it.

This will kill sales of doe skin mess kit and purchasing swords.

 

[jpjohnsn]

The bigger question is whether CF insignia even qualify as a "work" WRT Crown Copyright.  While that term is thrown around, it would seem to me that it would fall more accurately in the category of trade-mark which is a different animal altogether.

 

[dapaterson]

48th Regulator:  I know enough to know that I'd contact an IP lawyer before doing anything commerical.

jpjohnson: I don't believe most (if any) CF insignia are registered trademarks.  There is an online search tool for Canadian trademarks; it would be the first place to start.

 

[the 48th regulator]

48th Regulator:  I know enough to know that I'd contact an IP lawyer before doing anything commerical.

jpjohnson: I don't believe most (if any) CF insignia are registered trademarks.  There is an online search tool for Canadian trademarks; it would be the first place to start.

Roger,

I was hoping to save some money though.  I was workingon it last year, and I was given applications to get permission from the crown (I am at work, so I can't remember the dept. I contacted) to use badges, but I was unaware of the run out time which would save me tiem and money for sure.

dileas

tess

 

[Edward Campbell]

48th Regulator:  I know enough to know that I'd contact an IP lawyer before doing anything commerical.

jpjohnson: I don't believe most (if any) CF insignia are registered trademarks.  There is an online search tool for Canadian trademarks; it would be the first place to start.

Didn't the Disney Corp. have some trouble with the RCMP's insignia a few years ago?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Didn't the Disney Corp. have some trouble with the RCMP's insignia a few years ago?

I think it was more a question of the Mounties using Disney to market their brand a bit, then the deal just expired without renewal - not before the Mounties learned the copyright protection tricks, though.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Thanks for that ... I guess it reinforces datpaterson's point about consulting a lawyer - if the crown is the only agency that can license these things.

 

[Old Sweat]

When I was posted in the States in the Eighties some nunks called themselves something like the United States Media Corporation and tried to trademark USMC in order to collect royalties from the Marines. Not too surprisingly, they failed.

 

[Strike]

jpjohnson: I don't believe most (if any) CF insignia are registered trademarks. There is an online search tool for Canadian trademarks; it would be the first place to start.

That's not what ADM(PA) says.  They're very tight with how CF/regimental insignias are used and make sure everyone knows it.  Just going on what I was taught.

 

[Ostrozac]

Interesting. I took a look at the Trade-marks Act, and it says, in part:

9. (1) No person shall adopt in connection with a business, as a trade-mark or otherwise, any mark consisting of, or so nearly resembling as to be likely to be mistaken for,

any badge, crest, emblem or mark

    (i) adopted or used by any of Her Majesty’s Forces as defined in the National Defence Act,

Now, I think is clear enough to mean that I can't call my tavern The Royal Canadian Dragoon and have a big neon Springbok as a sign, but the Trade-marks Act seems to only apply to logos and identifying marks of your business, not necessarily to end products. I don't know if you were to start to engrave zippos and then sell them with the RCD logo on it, that you'd be in violation of the Trade-marks Act. That sort of thing is supposed to be covered by the Copyright Act.

But the Copyright Act seems to have a 50 year expiry date, and many of our badges are more than 50 years old:

12. Without prejudice to any rights or privileges of the Crown, where any work is, or has been, prepared or published by or under the direction or control of Her Majesty or any government department, the copyright in the work shall, subject to any agreement with the author, belong to Her Majesty and in that case shall continue for the remainder of the calendar year of the first publication of the work and for a period of fifty years following the end of that calendar year.

So is there another legal reference that I'm missing?

 

[a_majoor]

I had an interesting conversation with Micheal O'Leary a while back and one of the things that came up was officers often had their regimental regalia (including hat badges, buttons etc.) made up at a local jewlers. If I recall correctly this was certainly done right into the interwar period, but fell out of fashion post WWII.

How would a jewler get around the copyright/trademark infringment, or was that not really an issue back then?

As a side note, high quality laser scans of cap badges and other regalia can be made and then transfered to computerized devices like CAD/CAM milling machines or now 3D printers, so hobbiests can make these things if desired. Indeed, with a 3D printer and the proper resins, you could make cap badges in full colour (look at the image of the LdSH(RC) badge and compare it to the brass and silver badges worn by OR's and officers, for example).

Try regulating that.

 

[OldSolduer]

Didn't the Disney Corp. have some trouble with the RCMP's insignia a few years ago?

I remember that. IIRC, Disney Corp had the rights to the RCMP insignia. A great hullabaloo followed.

 

[Osotogari]

So is the issue that the organizations in question are thinking of/have sold these items, or that the labelled bottles exist in the first place?

 

[a_majoor]

So is the issue that the organizations in question are thinking of/have sold these items, or that the labelled bottles exist in the first place?

Remember "Royal Blue" brewed by Labatts for the 100th anniversary of The RCR?

 

[Osotogari]

The "Royal Blue" is before my time. 

Nevertheless, it would be a highly collectible and sought after item.  It is in no way derisive towards the CF in general or that regiment in particular. 

 

[PanaEng]

For F sakes, just bc some puritans might object to alcohol being associated with anything does not mean we have to ban these. If it helps support the regiments and their soldiers, go for it.

just my $0.05

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

For F sakes, just bc some puritans might object to alcohol being associated with anything does not mean we have to ban these. If it helps support the regiments and their soldiers, go for it.

just my $0.05

Damn inflation *sits back in rocking chair*, I remember back in my day when someones opinion was only worth $0.02.  And yet funny with the phasing out of the penny the rounding down would put opinions at worth nothing.
/tangent

I too agree that this should not be a big deal, but who am I.

 

[pbi]

In the PPCLI we had to deal with this regulation problem as we prepare for the 100th next year. We had intended to sell 100th wine, and there was talk of whiskey and even a resurrection of "Patricia Blue" (i get shivers about that: I was the guy who ran "Operation Albatross": the disposal of all the hundreds and hundreds of cases nobody drank..)

We ran into the issue of the Crown IP, which provoked quite a bit of concern and discussion. In the end, the SW Ontario Association branch arranged to market a red and a white, bearing our old WWI "Marguerite" capbadge, an image of the original Princess Patricia. So far this seems to be working well. Neither is a badge or device of HM Canadian forces under the current NDA. The product has to be purchased directly from the supplier.

What we did discover along the way was that there may be some leeway for use of Crown IP, if the product bearing current badges is sold only to those directly connected to the Regt, and not made available to the general public.

 

[McG]

The Canadian Military Engineer work around can be to contract with Sleeman.  It's not a government owned image, it is the brewers.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Really? (Finger are tapping together, and mind is going!)

Okay, now I am happy!  Okay, what should I send  to the Regiment (I got an e-mail from the DCO actually, on behalf of the CO).  I have a small business where I make Mugs, Steins, Plates, etc that I would like to get off the ground.  Obviously, my target audience is the Military.

Where should I start, in finding information you are talking about where I can send them to when they try to kibosh my plans?

dileas

tess

(I am being earnest, and this is not a what if question)

If you do manage to get this business off the ground, send me a PM. I might have some business for you.