Beware the regimental "anniversary beer/wine"

[The Bread Guy]

The Canadian Army is all for its soldiers raising a glass to toast upcoming milestones, as long as nobody thinks there's a product endorsement going on.

And anyone in the general public who would like a sip, or wee dram, of the special spirits will remain thirsty unless someone in uniform is willing to share.

National Defence recently issued new guidelines to military units, including the army's most storied regiments, to govern the production and sale commemorative beer, wine and spirits for the splash of celebrations expected next year.

In 2014, the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, the Royal 22e Regiment, Royal Montreal Regiment and Regiment du Hull will all mark the 100 years since their formation.

Other even older units are currently in the midst of the 150th anniversary this year, including the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, the Princess of Wales Own Regiment, and the Lincoln and Welland Regiment.

"In the recent past, various alcoholic beverages were produced to commemorate regimental anniversaries," Lt.-Gen. Peter Devlin, the army's commander was told in a recent briefing. "Many units and regiments are contemplating fund raising efforts featuring the debatable use of (intellectual property)," such as cap badges, regimental colours, and the Crown.

The angst was driven by the production and online sale of Black Watch Whisky, which featured the famous unit's badge, armoury and a member in highland dress. As many as "600 of these bottles of whisky could be an unauthorized use of Crown (intellectual property)."

Brewing a special batch of beer, wine -- or distilling whisky -- "is very complex, which makes it extremely difficult for regiments and their foundations to remain within the appropriate legal, ethical and historical/heritage boundaries," said a Nov. 3, 2011 briefing note.

A spokeswoman for the army, Colleen McGrann, said on Friday the department issued clear guidelines. Those new rules include limiting the sale of commemorative alcohol to within the military, and requiring associations to ask for permission to use regimental logos, as well as using established brewers.

The military spent many years trying to reclaim a squeaky clean image following the dark days of the 1990s Somalia scandal, and the briefing displayed how hyper-vigilant it has become.

Officials within National Defence stressed about possible copyright infringement and civil and criminal liability if something happened to someone using "branded beverages." They worried about the optics, the possibility of regimental reputations being tarnished, and of the publicity nightmare that would follow potential incidents.

Defence communications staff foresaw having to conduct broad-based "damage control," should something go wrong ....

The Canadian Press, 16 Jun 13

 

[bLUE fOX]

http://terminallance.com/2012/11/16/terminal-lance-234-dont-encourage-them/

Has this been anyone else's experiance?

 

[Teager]

I remember at the end of TF 3-06 1 RCR was trying to get a bottle of Crown Royal done up for end of tour with an engraving done on the bottle or something along those lines. It turned out that just couldn't be done so they got a real nice box made up which would come with the Crown Royal and a shot glass. It was pretty sweet and better than most of the end tour gifts and any unit was able to purchase one that was on that Task Force.

 

[OldSolduer]

Hyper vigilant? I'd say stupid retarded hyper dumbness.


What the hell have we become?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hyper vigilant? I'd say stupid retarded hyper dumbness.


What the hell have we become?

Unfortunately, I believe that the collective 'we' have hitched our leadership horses to too many senior Officers in the 'Stupid-Industrious' quadrant. My unofficial, self-administered survey estimated current 'S-I' ratios at approximately 40%. Luckily, I'm not senior or important enough to qualify for inclusion in this survey  ;D:

"The German General Staff, the story goes, used to divide army officers into four categories: the clever and lazy, the clever and hard-working, the stupid and lazy, and the stupid and hard- working. The best Generals, the Germans found, came from the clever and lazy; the best staff officers emerged from the clever and hard-working; the stupid and lazy could be made useful as regimental officers; but the stupid and hard-working were a menace, to be disposed of as soon as possible.

"I divide officers into four classes -- the clever, the lazy, the stupid and the industrious. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the high staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy is fit for the very highest commands. He has the temperament and the requisite nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be removed immediately."

Attributed, circa 1933; General Baron Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord (1878-1943); German Chief of Army Command (1930-33)'

http://regimentalrogue.com/quotes/quotes_officers1.htm

 

[Ostrozac]

Pardon my ignorance, but how many people actually want regimental labelled bottles of an alcoholic beverage? Alcohol is a consumable part of my supply system.

Now, regimentally engraved shot glasses, beer steins, pitchers, hip flasks, port decanters... Now we're talking! I'd be in the market for all those things. And if we ever have regimental shot glasses banned, then I guess the troops will be reduced to buying black market engravings down at the mall.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Can anyone actually demonstrate case law whereby criminal liability was actually attributed to an image or copyright?

By which I mean, has anyone been brought to court, successfully, having been found criminally negligent by virtue of having a trademarked image of thiers affixed to a bottle (constructed by someone else, bought by a third pary) which contained a fluid (produced by said third party) and distributed by a fourth party (in this case the liqour licensee I suppose)?

I'm no legal beagle but this seems tenous at best. I'm with Jim Seggie on this one. The senior leadership is afraid to fart lest someone be offended.

 

[MP 811]

Hyper vigilant? I'd say stupid retarded hyper dumbness.


What the hell have we become?

+1!!!!..............and being PC strikes again.

 

[Good2Golf]

TTG, not so much the alcohol linkage as much as unapproved use of a regimental insignia that more recently has been licensed as an image in Right of the Queen.  In a similar vein, remember the RCL threatening to sue any personae or organization that used its copyright poppy!  Although the RCL is not a Federal organization, so I suppose your question still stands.

The way around this of course is to use a symbol that means something to the Regiment, Squadron, Ship, etc... But that is not otherwise a copyright symbol held in Right of the Queen...

Regards
G2G

 

[Haggis]

TTG, not so much the alcohol linkage as much as unapproved use of a regimental insignia that more recently has been licensed as an image in Right of the Queen.  In a similar vein, remember the RCL threatening to sue any personae or organization that used its copyright poppy!  Although the RCL is not a Federal organization, so I suppose your question still stands.

The International Olympic Committee ruthlessly protects it's trademark, as shown in this story from 2008, shared with the usual caveats.

 

[dapaterson]

IANAL.  Do not take legal advice from random people on the internet.

That disclaimer aside, copyrights have a finite lifespan.  So "Crown Copyright" likely doesn't apply to regimental insignia, since that copyright has probably expired.

Per http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr02393.html#crowncr

Works of Crown copyright
These government publications are created for or published by the Crown. Copyright in these works lasts for the remainder of the calendar year in which the work is first published, and for 50 years after that.

So, slapping the badge of the Royal Buckshot Fusiliers of Tisdale, Saskatchewan on a bottle of gin (produced by a legal producer) does not run afoul of Crown Copyright.


The Legion attempts to enforce a trademark, an entirely different part of intellectual property law.  I do not know whether the Governemnt has trademarked various military insignia; I suspect not.

 

[the 48th regulator]

IANAL.  Do not take legal advice from random people on the internet.

That disclaimer aside, copyrights have a finite lifespan.  So "Crown Copyright" likely doesn't apply to regimental insignia, since that copyright has probably expired.

Per http://www.cipo.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr02393.html#crowncr

So, slapping the badge of the Royal Buckshot Fusiliers of Tisdale, Saskatchewan on a bottle of gin (produced by a legal producer) does not run afoul of Crown Copyright.


The Legion attempts to enforce a trademark, an entirely different part of intellectual property law.  I do not know whether the Governemnt has trademarked various military insignia; I suspect not.

Actually,

That is not the case, hence why your disclaimer is good about internet advice.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/faq/index-eng.asp?cat=dress&FaqID=109#ans-rep

In accordance with Chapter 6 of CFP 200 – The Heritage Structure of the Canadian Forces,

badge ownership is retained by the Crown, through DND, but vested in the officer commanding the unit or formation concerned.



It is important to understand that all CF Badges are deemed to be intellectual property of the CF, and are copyright protected. For these reasons, unless it has been authorized by the Commanding Officer of the unit whose badge you want, only low resolution copies are available. Low resolution copies of CF badges can be found on the DHH website.


If you are authorized as identified above, requests for high resolution digital copies of CF badges can be sent to DHH via the following E-Mail address: +DHH3@CMP DHH@Ottawa-Hull.



The public can also request to use a CF badge by applying for Crown Copyright Clearance.


dileas

tess

 

[dapaterson]

If they are protected by copyright, and the badge is over 50 years old, then copyright no longer applies.


A specific image of a badge may still be protected; but the badge itself would not be.

 

[OldSolduer]

the Royal Buckshot Fusiliers of Tisdale, Saskatchewan

Hmmmm....that gives me an idea...great name.

 

[Occam]

Hyper vigilant? I'd say stupid retarded hyper dumbness.


What the hell have we become?

+1.

They must have solved all the major problems at HQ.  You definitely don't want to read NAVGEN 022/13, which is deserving of its own thread, but I'm not posting it.

 

[the 48th regulator]

If they are protected by copyright, and the badge is over 50 years old, then copyright no longer applies.


A specific image of a badge may still be protected; but the badge itself would not be.

Agreed,

However, I am sure next to the cubicles of the the guys responsible for changing military terms every five years, there is another guy who's job is to make sure not of them expire.  This article is explaining just that.  I have also noticed that there has also been a recent crack down by various regiments, I felt if from my own, on the use of the Capbadge on anything not authorized by the CO.

dileas

tess

 

[dapaterson]

Copyright can't be renewed.  It expires.  Trademarks are different.

And while a CO can use moral suasion on his own troops, there's nothing to stop another person from doing something.  So while the CO of the 48th may show restraint, Billy Bob down the street could still start peddling fruity drinks with umbrellas and slap on the 48th capbadge.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Copyright can't be renewed.  It expires.  Trademarks are different.

And while a CO can use moral suasion on his own troops, there's nothing to stop another person from doing something.  So while the CO of the 48th may show restraint, Billy Bob down the street could still start peddling fruity drinks with umbrellas and slap on the 48th capbadge.

Really? (Finger are tapping together, and mind is going!)

Okay, now I am happy!  Okay, what should I send  to the Regiment (I got an e-mail from the DCO actually, on behalf of the CO).  I have a small business where I make Mugs, Steins, Plates, etc that I would like to get off the ground.  Obviously, my target audience is the Military.

Where should I start, in finding information you are talking about where I can send them to when they try to kibosh my plans?

dileas

tess

(I am being earnest, and this is not a what if question)

 

[Old Sweat]

As a writer, I have some knowledge of copyright law, but as it applies to individuals. In this case it expires 50 years after the author's death, but an application can be made to extend it to 75 years. Perhaps the same applies to organizations.

 

[Shamrock]

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